Kayaking for distance

[Figment]

http://www.windchecklis.com/pdf/dec05/dec05st.pdf\

Kayakers paddle from Stonington, CT to Montauk, NY to Block Island, and back to Stonington in a day. Something like 53 nautical miles. They've called it "The Stonington Triangle"

Considering the swiftness of tides in the area, it's a fair accomplishment to SAIL that circuit before sunset. My forearms are twitching just thinking about paddling such distance.

[Bruce Hooke]

Wow! That is quite a circuit.

By the way, the extra slash at the end of the URL gave me problems, so here is a "clean" link:

http://www.windchecklis.com/pdf/dec05/dec05st.pdf

[clancy]

I've done the round Manhattan trip a few times. That's roughly 38 miles.

[ 12-09-2005, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: clancy ]

[George Roberts]

Using the information provided, my paddling experience, and some engineering ...

They paddled 3-3/4 to 4-1/4 miles per hour. And were worn out at the end. This implies about 80-120 calories/hour.

For strong paddlers this is not very much output. Certainly not enough to be tired from.

Reasonable performance (I guy in as poor of shape as I was last time I paddled 50 miles) might be in the area of:

150-180 calories per hour. This would get a 150-180# paddler up to 4-3/4 knots. That is only a candy bar every 2 hours.

Stories always sound better than they are.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Did your calculations adjust for paddling with and against the current, George?

Alan

[emichaels]

Still looks like a lot of fun, especially since I could eat candy bars while doing it........ :D
Eric

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

The longest regular kayak race in the UK is Devises to Westminster this is 125 miles (200 Km/110Nm)the very best do it non-stop I believe that the outright record is about 16.5 hrs. The tricky bit is timing the departure so as to make the maximum use of the tide from Teddington to Westminster.

The other biggie (non-stop) is the Scottish "Three Lochs" - Loch Lomond, The Gareloch and Loch Long the hard bits are the portages.

[Bruce Hooke]

A couple of thoughts on the energy output required:

1. At least some of the time they were fighting currents.

2. Almost the entire trip was on basically open ocean, which means there are going to be swells even on a calm day. Paddling in swells is a good bit more tiring than paddling on flat water.

3. Simply being out relatively far from shore is going to raise the adrenalin level, which ultimately means more energy burned.

4. They claim to have trained regularly and pretty vigorously, meaning they were presumably in pretty decent shape (no, of course they were not in the kind of shape that a peak athlete is, but how many of us are), and to have been worn out at the end. I'm more inclined to believe the evidence from the field that this trip was a lot of work than some calculations that say that it should not have been a lot of work.

5. If nothing else, it takes nerve and skill to paddle kayaks as far offshore as they were, and that alone deserves some respect.

[Alan D. Hyde]

A mile on flat water can turn into two miles on big swells.

Alan

[Kim Whitmyre]

Check out this website, http://www.rollordrown.com/index.html (http://1) for xlnt trip logs, and links to pictures, of some Southern California kayakers. They do an annual "Catalina for Lunch" trip: paddle to Catalina for lunch, and then paddle back in one day. 38 nautical miles.

Ed Gillet went from Santa Barbara to Maui. :eek:

http://canoekayak.com/features/stories/gillet/ (http://1)

[ 12-10-2005, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Kim Whitmyre ]

[LeeG]

George, how do you derive those numbers?

It may take 100calories to pull a kayak at that speed but I suspect their bodies were putting out more than 450calories/hr. Eating one small 200 calorie candybar an hour
might work for a 100lb person but that person would still hit the wall after eight to ten hours even if they had a huge breakfast.

[ 12-13-2005, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

[skuthorp]

We have a 5 day, 404k canoe race on the Murray river.
http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/murraymarathon.htm
I've done a few as well as duty as safety officer and first aid. There's various ways of doing it including group relays, as well as individual events. It's more of a psychological challenge than physical in a lot of ways. We experienced temeratures up to 40C, blinding dust storms, locusts, snakes and thunderstorms.
In the lead up are 40K, 100K and a 24 hour race. All good fun really. :D

[George Roberts]

LeeG ---

I use a spreadsheet to compute power requirements. The base formula is close to what several other sources use.

The results of the spreadsheet and my comments appear reasonable when compared to my paddling when I was younger but not in "good" shape.

[LeeG]

the reason I ask is that 80cal/hr is about basal metabolism,,or what it takes just being alive walking from the chair to the refrigerator.

Paddling 3.5mph for me is somewhere between breathing through my nose and mouth breathing. Which corresponds to walking at a med. brisk pace.

I'm wondering if your 150-180cal/hr rate is purely hull/water and not figuring the efficiency and output of the motor?

[Matt J.]

George, your numbers look incredibly low. According to my heart rate monitor, at a comfortable exercise pace, I burn roughly 600-800 kilocalories per hour.

Granted I'm a big fella, male and overweight a bit, but there's no way any adult is kayaking with any effort at any pace at only 100 or 200 kilocalories per hour. Heck, my wife is tiny and in great shape and she burns over 400 kcal per hour at exercise pace.

I exercise for an hour or two at a time, and even with a moderate pace (about what I imagine I'd do if I were paddling such a course) I'm tired. Doing so for many more hours on end would be wearing.

My opinions are based solely on estimates of two independent pieces of exercise equipment.

Perhaps they're wrong.

[LeeG]

don't think so. Glycogen reserves can vary significantly between slightly fit to extremely fit but it's roughly 2-4hrs with moderately vigorous exercise and then you have to start fueling the fire. With all day exercise you can't afford to bonk or you stop and recover. Bonking on a kayak isn't a good thing.
I'm not in that fitness level anymore but I know once you start getting into ultramarathon efforts of 500cal/hr+ you have to eat 500cal/hr once the easily accesible glycogen gets used.
When I raced bicycles that easily accessed energy got used up in two-three hours with glucose providing a needed kick.
When I did all day bike rides after six hours the only thing that kept me alive was what I was eating, and it took more than one candy bar an hour to put out hard work,and if it was cold a certain amount of those calories were just to stave off hypothermia.
I recall one fellow in a 2 3/4hr ride/race through the cool Mendocino coastline who finished with blue lips. I think he ate one power bar.