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Garth Jones
07-28-2005, 08:52 PM
Hi Everybody,

I just hung the sheer planks on my Ness Yawl (pictures to follow in a day or two) and I'm beginning to think about paint. The boat will live on a trailer and generally be in fresh water when it's wet. I want a hard, durable finish and am considering the various one part epoxy paints. I'm looking for an recommendations or warnings for Epifanes, Interlux, etc.

Thanks in advance,
Garth

PS I searched the forum with Great Googley and didn't find much - that surprised me. Perhaps I missed a huge thread.....

Graham Knight
07-29-2005, 02:37 AM
I painted the hull of my most recent boat with 2 pack epoxy, applied by the roll & tip method.
The paint was bought from my usual paint supplier and is normally used for things like truck chassis and other hard wearing applications, it's much cheaper than any of the "marine" brands and I'm sure it's just as good. They do supply it to several commercial marine users.
My hull is glass-epoxy sheathed, if your's isn't I'm not sure an epoxy paint, one or two pack, would be suitable. I think if you read International's recommendations they say not to use it on wood and to choose Brightsides or Toplac instead, if the boat is trailered and only spending a day or two in the water at a time they will work fine.

Jack C
08-01-2005, 10:28 AM
I've used Interlux Brightsides for my boat. Despite my following the directions to a "T", it's not very durable stuff. Look at it cross-eyed and it will rub off. The saving grace is it's easy to apply when it does rub off. But if you're looking for a durable finish (and who isn't?), I can't recommend Brightsides.

Jack

RodB
08-01-2005, 10:36 AM
You might check out:

www.topsecretcoatings.com/ (http://www.topsecretcoatings.com/)

RB

[ 08-01-2005, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: RodB ]

Graham Knight
08-01-2005, 10:38 AM
Any paint finish will only be as durable as the surface you're painting, and wood being relatively soft stuff will scuff quite easily. The problem with hard paints like epoxy on a wood surface is that the paint isn't sufficiently flexible to move with the wood, so it ends up cracking and flaking off and is ultimately no better than the less durable paints.
The exception to this is a wood surface that's been glass/epoxy sheathed, the layer of glass and resin is stable so the paint lasts much longer.

Gary E
08-01-2005, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Graham Knight:
The problem with hard paints like epoxy on a wood surface is that the paint isn't sufficiently flexible to move with the wood, so it ends up cracking and flaking off and is ultimately no better than the less durable paints.
That is EXACTY why Rustoleum Paint make such a good long lasting job. Yeah, I know it's for steel and iron, so what. Tryit sometime....

JimConlin
08-01-2005, 12:24 PM
Where's The Chemist when we need him?

There is a lot of misrepresentation about paints, particularly when boats are involved.
Here's my short summary of relevant topside paints for boats. There are two popular families of paints used for boats, one-part alkyd based paints and two-part polyurethane paints.

The one-part alkyd paints are what we generally call 'oil' paints. They're based mostly on alkyd resins and are thinned with mineral spirits. Sometimes they are jazzed up with secret ingredients to enhance gloss or some other characteristic. They are easy to apply, don't demand very fine preparation and some are of moderate cost. They are not particularly tough and do not weather well. The most common retail brands include Interlux Brightsides and Toplac, Pettit Easypoxy, Kirby's and anything 'oil-based' from the corner paint shop. Best for most wooden boats.

The two-part polyurethane paints include Awlgrip, Interlux's Interthane and Perfection, Sterling. The paints are quite tough and weather very well, but they are quite thin and do not cover well, so meticulous preparation and multiple coats are needed. Also, they are cured with cyanide compounds and present very real safety issues. These paints do best over hard stable surfaces.

Occasionally someone will use acrylic latex house paint on a boat. These paints are easy to apply and weather well, but do not have much gloss or tolerate scuffs well. Just right for your houseboat.

True two-part epoxy paints are very tough, but do not tolerate sunlight well, so they're fine for the concrete floor of your garage or shop but not for exterior use. Epoxy primers are used with two-part polyurethane paints.

The paints and sealants used in more traditional boat construction are another topic, as are bottom paints and the religious arguments about CPES and other snake oils.

The way to cut through the bulls*** advertising copy is to read the product's Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). It will identify the principal ingredients. If you find the word 'alkyd', it's an oil paint, "cyanide' or 'isocyanate' indicates a two-part polyurethane.

Hope this helps.
Jim

Ed Armstrong
08-02-2005, 03:04 PM
Thanks for the info, Jim.

I have a glued lapstrake plywood boat that I've been planning on coating the outside with Interlux's VC Performance Epoxy, which is an epoxy based bottom paint containing no antifouling agents. One of my primary reasons for doing this is that I can use this same paint on my fiberglass trailered sailboat (and I'm hoping to kill three birds with one stone by using it to waterproof a concrete fountain as well. This thread has me wondering if I'm going to experience excessive cracking and chipping with an epoxy based paint on my wooden hull. Thoughts?

Ed

Garth Jones
08-02-2005, 05:00 PM
I should have mentioned that the Ness Yawl is a glued lapstrake boat (for those very few who might have forgotten ;) ).

In his article about building the Caledonia Yawl, Geoff Kerr says that he painted that boat with Interlux Pre-Cote followed by four coats of Petit EasyPoxy (which I guess isn't an epoxy at all). Any thoughts on that?

Then there is the question - to CPES or not.... As a chemist (but NOT a coatings specialist) and a woodworker, the idea of saturating the wood with epoxy makes sense to me.

Garth

Ed Armstrong
08-02-2005, 05:37 PM
Garth,

My plywood lapstrake boat is an Acorn Dinghy, which is also an Oughtred design. The hull is done except for final sanding and fairing, and I'm trying to decide what coating to use. I'll be interested to hear what you decide for your Ness Yawl.

Ed

westinghouse
08-02-2005, 06:49 PM
I'm a big fan of Easypoxy and I think your application is textbook for using CPES as a primer/sealer.

Eli

IIRC, Easypoxy leaves the heaviest dry film of the 'one part polyurethane' paints. I find their semi-gloss white still takes three coats to get 'there'. But man, once you're there...

pipefitter
08-02-2005, 08:28 PM
I used easypoxy to lock down the exposed fibreglass(itchy boat) on a sears gamefisher. That was 15 yrs ago and it is still there. Dirty,yes but there nonetheless. The boat sits outside uncovered. Not a wood boat but to still have gloss after all this time? Can't be bad stuff.

Billy Bones
08-03-2005, 09:17 AM
My experience with Brightside is very poor. My experience with waterbourne DTM paint has been very good.

Nick C
08-03-2005, 07:48 PM
That's a great run down on paint, Jim, but it leaves me with one question. Which paint sheds water the best?

From reading another question on this forum, I learned that epoxy and vinylester are not water proof. So, which paints are more water proof?

Is house paint as water resistant as Petit's Easypoxy, for instance. What about the stuff sold as porch paint?

J. Dillon
08-03-2005, 08:26 PM
My experience with "Brightsides" is very good it stands up well. At first I had trouble applying it but then tried ordinary Penetrol. It went on easy with a big foam brush. Don't know what I'm going to do in a year as Interlux has phased out "teal" color. :(

JD

pipefitter
08-03-2005, 08:32 PM
Teal color. I wanted an off teal more to blue color. I made the blue with 50/50 hatteras off white (the lighter shade) with largo blue. Now that I see that Benjamin Moore sells the M22 urethane alkyd which is what brightsides is,I bet they could tint it for you.They have infinite color selection pretty much. You might try that or ask them.
Also,I am having good luck with applying the brightsides but it was a very clean well sanded surface.No lifting or drying problems and the brush marks are gone.

[ 08-03-2005, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

Alan Peck
08-03-2005, 08:39 PM
Someone mentioned Rustoleum paints. I noticed that they are now selling Rustoleum labled as "Marine" at pretty cheap prices at Home Depot.

Haven't tried it myself yet.

Any reports out there about the stuff?