Annie is for sale, for quite reasonable I think

[Jack Heinlen]

I followed this boat a little, when it was going together. Finastkind. Very well built, with attention to detail that was beyond regular.

She's almost twenty five years old, but I'll bet she's still very sound.

http://www.cppyacht.com/wood.html

Well, for some reason the link isn't direct, but go to the first Fenwick William's gaff yawl, 24 foot.

[ 06-04-2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Matt J.]

Yep, both of RARUS' sisters are for sale. ANNIE is a steal. No other reason than a very desperate owner. "Offers" I've heard. ALLEGORY is also for sale, and even with her higher asking price, I think she's reasonable.

The wooden sailboat market is so bad now, that even a boat like ANNIE can't sell. I suppose those of us with wooden sailboats better love their boats - cause ya ain't unloadin 'em.

[shamus]

I've always thought that the story of Allegory's building is an absolute classic. This is confirmed by the fact that some unmentionable has flogged my copy of WB 109, and I've had to replace it at great expense. I have a soft spot for this boat. I think I'd be inclined to take Annie at the price tho, I have to wonder why they're all trying to get out. I think it must be those uncomfortable cockpit seats that no one ever mentions.

[shamus]

BTW I'm going to have to look up RARUS. I'd describe these as sisters to MARY M, the original as I understand it.

[Matt J.]

The stories go like this:
RARUS was selling because her owner had some land he wanted to develop in an area which took lots of time to develop land. Hence, he wanted to sell RARUS to have time for his new pet project.

ALLEGORY is for sale, according to her current owner, because her owner wants to go home to West Virginia, as she misses the mountains. There's no big water in the mountains, so she is selling ALLEGORY.

ANNIE is for sale for... personal reasons. He needs to sell his boat, and quick.

I think the interesting thing is (good or bad), that no one selling one of the sisters so far has bought another, bigger, boat. They all seem to be sold because people's lives change direction, and sailing gets shuffled aside. Whether that means the owner's don't need bigger boats, or the boats aren't enough to keep people sailing... well, I'm biased. We paid more than ANNIE's asking for RARUS, but less than ALLEGORY's asking, and I still don't feel like we got a bad deal. She's a great boat, way more capable, currently, than her maintenance crew / custodians/ "owners".

I wasn't even aware of MARY M. I tried finding some history of the design, because it was done by Fenwick way back in 1933, but all I could find was a short line somewhere that perhaps 2 or 3 were built on the US/Canadian Great Lakes. Anyone know more/better/different?

RARUS is unknown, essentially. FCW was hired to raise the cabintop for more headroom, (thankfully) back in the late 70's as I understand it, and he revised a few things to make it work. I have hand drafted drawings, sketches, details, and such by FCW in the file for the construction of RARUS. Her bulwarks were raised to offset the height of the cabin top, and her interior was redesigned as well. She has a huge cockpit as her bulwarks replaced the cockpit coamings, and she's the only of the 3 I am aware of with the original steering system.

She was bright hulled until this year, when my wife and I decided that her varnish was tired; and perhaps she'd look just as good or better painted. So we gave her the best job we could muster in painting her, and we are pleased. She looks "right" painted.

If you get to see ALLEGORY's interior after having read the story of "Blue Bear" building her, it's almost haunting. The level of skill and detail in her interior is stupefying. ANNIE, of course, was well documented.

RARUS, virtually unkown, was built by John Seaman, on Long Island. When we first saw her last spring, I was floored by the quality of construction. There are little things here and there that I see once in a while, like the forward hatch, that I think he let someone else do. Apparently the first owner helped build her... I assign the forward hatch to him. The quality of construction is too high everywhere else for Mr. Seaman to have cut that hatch.

You gotta be careful getting me going about RARUS. ;) THE perfect boat for us, and for the Chesapeake Bay.

Should I go on, or are you snoring yet? :D

[ 06-04-2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Matt J. ]

[shamus]

No I'm not snoring!
I'm wanting to learn some history here.
As I understand the history of the design MARY M was the first of her kind, designed for Carl Mayer who died just after she was completed. (WB 151). You know I've never heard of RARUS, but it sounds interesting. I've owned a copy of the plans for this design since the original ANNIE article 1981.

[ 06-04-2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: shamus ]

[shamus]

I like your last paragraph above, it's almost mystical. If I seem to be a bit fraught about this subject it's because I have some logs sitting in a paddock not fifty yards from here which might become a boat like Annie, or might become a Paul Gartside boat, or might sit and rot. Which last I doubt.

[David Conard]

Matt, It's time for pictures of the new paint job.

[Dan Nielsen]

Yes Matt, pictures please.

[Matt J.]

OK, I plan on getting the bulwark (outside) painted this weekend, if at ALL possible. I'll then get some pictures, and email them to someone who can post them (our site has become inaccessible).

I promise to do my very best. I've just been waiting to get the bulwark done first before releasing photos (sounds all important that way). I have several without it, but since we're also going from a green bulwark to a rich red one, it's not even a good reference.

Ya know... it's funny. Last year, we actually couldn't get away from the comments (bright boats are uncommon on the Bay). We thought painting her would allow a bit more anonimity... instead we have just as many people asking why we painted her. :rolleyes:

[shamus]

How about I buy Annie; you sail her here; and we have a pig roast as per topic on bilge?

[Matt J.]

You got a deal... of course my delivery rates are not cheap, but you've got yourself a deal.

Just let me know when we leave.

[David Conard]

Matt, as someone who looked at Rarus before you bought her, I'm not asking why you painted her, because I would have done the same thing. I can't wait to see your pictures.

[Hwyl]

Aren't you tempted by "Little Crescent Moon" on the same page. Aage Nielsen and Paul Luke---the stuff of dreams. The boat seems to be nicely sorted out--I'm not sure why she's listed as a daysailer, she has the accomodation of the Fenwick Williams boats

[Keith Wilson]

THAT Allegory? The one built by the schizophrenic boatbuilder off in the woods in Washington someplace?? Wow! I love that design, alhough it's alogether wrong for the water in which I sail now. Here are some pictures of Allegory's cabin from the broker's website:

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/6/7/5/9/3/675936_9.jpg

[ 06-04-2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Matt J.]

Shamus,
I was thinking about this again (thanks fer gettin me started). Really the only way you could decide would be to come on up, over, and around, and go for a sail. It'd only take you a couple days to get used to standing upright instead of hanging upside down. RARUS, of course, I can vouch for, and ALLEGORY is only 45 minutes up the road, so you can try both.

That carving is really something. But reading the article (as in that morning), and then going aboard, and personally looking around all that handiwork, is really... well, haunting. Great stuff. Both boats I've been aboard have been like that - as if they really did have something in them. (uh-oh, there I go gettin all strange).

[PeterSibley]

Shamus,
have you seen "Madoc", owned by Mick Seeney....she lives down ther somewhere around Hobart? Shes a bright finished Annie 24' FW design....a great article on her in the may 2001 Classic Boat .

[Jack Heinlen]

What would you do with Annie? A few modifications to the companionway and she'd take oceans in stride. The boat is quite strongly built.

But if you didn't want that, just wanted a cruising boat for two on the NE coast, she's a little small down below. Reasonably big for twenty four foot, but still a bit spartan.

I suspect it's part of the reason she's difficult to sell. She's a jewel, and yet not one easily redeemed.

I'd still love to own her. smile.gif

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:

I'd still love to own her. smile.gif Go for it Jack

[PeterSibley]

She's absolutely beautiful ! But would she be a good sea boat?...capable yes but would she hobby horse so much as to wear you out? Not much bouyancy in the ends is there.This is not really criticism, I looked long and hard at "Annie"s drawings and photos when that issue came out, I think I wore it out !

[Thad]

Have you looked at her in the last few years, Jack? Maybe you should. Don't hurt to look, and it would be encouraging to John.

[Jack Heinlen]

Thad,

I'll bet she looks as good in person as she does in the photogs. I'll also wager that if you went a little further and pulled some representative fastenings that they'd be shiny and bright, almost like new. She went together right.

But ah hell, I'm not in any position to even think about it. She's too small to liveaboard--at least for this middle-aged fart--being the main reason.

Gawd she's pretty, a little jewel. You couldn't replace her new for five times what they are asking.

She's in your neck of the woods. You go be enchanted. smile.gif

Jack

[shamus]

Stop it stop it stop it. smile.gif I've had to have 24 hours cooling off to avoid the temptations being offered above. (Actually some social obligations kept me away.)
Peter: I've heard there is an "Annie" here somewhere, but I've never seen her. My brother claims there's one here planked clinker,- I don't know whether that's right or not.

[PeterSibley]

Thats the one, bright finished, clinker, tan sails and bloody nice to look upon !! smile.gif

[Matt J.]

Anywhere to get a copy of that Classic Boat magazine with pictures of MADOC? your description of her sounds like description of RARUS' appearance (well, before a month ago).

I went to take pictures this morning, of her now nearly complete paint job... camera batteries dead. waaay dead. Pics tomorrow, I guess.

Hobby horsing. We experienced that last July on RARUS. IT was pretty bad but, and this is the important point I've found since then: we were motoring into some rather large seas (Chesapeake Style, so 6 foot from trough to crest, but only 15 - 20 feet apart). We sailed through nearly the same last December and found absolutely zero hobby horsing. I wasn't allowing anyone to toy with the bowsprit or boomkin in that cold water and that wind, so with only the main set, we found she powered through the waves like she were a much, much larger boat. She felt more sure of herselft than 34 and 37 foot boats we've sailed.

Sorry about the pics. I must have left the camera on last time. Tomorrow.

-Matt

[PeterSibley]

Thanks for the comments on hobbyhorsing Matt, very interesting.I suggested it because I had heard that it was/is a characteristic of the original Colin Archers....not a problem per se, but a characteristic of hull shape and "Annie " appears very close to the original, if very much smaller .Possibly uncomfortable in some conditions but definitely able.
Re the Classic Boat issue, you want May 2001 No.155.Possibly the mag sells back issues.Try http://www.classicboat.co.uk/cb/home.htm

[Meerkat]

I thought one major cause of hobbyhorsing was caused by too much weight in the ends?

[PeterSibley]

or possibly too little displacement.....and its hard to have less than a double ender,even with Annie's fairly full ends.

[Matt J.]

Meer,
We don't have lots of weight in the ends... an anchor and the head up forward are the only things with point-load weights... In the stern, it's only me and Jen in the cockpit.

Peter,
Thanks for the link, I should have known that (it's in my favorites), I guess I was being lazy again.

RARUS, and her sisters, I believe, displace nearly 10,000#. It's not a lot, but for a 20 foot wateline... it seems like a lot. Looking at her lines drawings, she looks like all her displacement generally is near midships.

I remember how bad the hobbyhorsing was last summer motoring dead into large, close waves... and how it wasn't late last fall while sailing through the same conditions.

Who wants pics of the paint job? Sorry, I can't post them as I have no means of connecting to an online server like that through our firewall.

[Aramas]

Pitching (hobby-horsing) is inevitable in any boat, but the 'lines analysis' crowd make much of a double-ender's supposed symmetry fore and aft. If a double ender is more or less exactly the same at both ends (unusual) then pitch damping would be a problem. Most double-enders are quite different in section fore and aft, and as far as classic designs go, not significantly different in pitch behaviour from transom sterned vessels.

When a boat pitches herself to a standstill it's usually due to the situation where the vessel's period of pitch is close enough to the period of oncoming waves that pitch is excited - which is easily alleviated by a slight change of speed and/or course if there's enough room. The only instances where I've personally found myself in that situation was motoring to windward in a strong wind, chop and narrow channel, in anything from a 25 foot Farr to a 48 foot teak on oak cutter - all of whitch were counter/transom sterned.

Imo the double-ender's propensity for pitching is as much a myth as it's alleged superior seaworthiness.

[ 06-08-2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[PeterSibley]

Duly noted, thank you.