Cable ties for stich & glue

[imported_Daniel]

The recommended procedure for stiching the ply together in the literature I have read is copper wire-6 or 8 guage. I did however see a few pics on this site where it looks like plastic cable ties were used. Is this something you folks would recommend using? Or should I stick to what the plans call for?
Also, would the plastic ties be left in, or do they need to be pulled out after?

Thanks & Happy Holidays

[Greg H]

I've tried both. Didn't like the cable ties . I found it hard to get them tight enough, the small ones have no strength and the big ones need too big a hole. But some folks get them to work.
If you have areas where two bits over lap, a sheet metal screw put through both parts and into a backing plate works well for me.
Other than that, follow the plans first or at least give the method a try.
---G

[Mike Field]

Speaking for myself, I'd always pull the stitches out, whether they were wire or plastic, if only for cosmetic reasons. But it might make putting the fianl fillet in more straightforward, too.

[Tom Lathrop]

Plastic ties work fine for joints having low stress like thin ply and low curvature. The holes must be larger though and that's a negative. I prefer plastic ties in building kayaks where they are strong enough. They are easily adjustable which makes setting up easier. There is no hard-fast rule. Both wire size and spacing must be varied to suit the situation. I mostly use iron wire and always remove the ties to make the filets smoother and save hitting the things later with planes or chisels.

[Charlie J]

Having just stitched up three boats in the last two weeks, I can tell you which I prefer.

I did two with copper wire and one with cable ties. I still have the claw marks from the wire. Also, the cable ties are much easier to get rid of- just slide a sharp chisel along the hull bottom or side and they "pop" as you go, then come back the other way for the other side and you have a mostly flat surface left. You may have to clean up a few but not many if you keep the chisel FLAT. I cut the ties off an 18 footer in about five minutes that way.

On the other hand, the wires must be cut one by one and I've not found any tool that will cut them dead flat, so a bit of wire end protrudes, which must be either sanded or filed off. Also- the ends sticking out will bite you.

Having said that, the wires WILL give you a tighter join if you need a bit of strength to pull a couple spots together, but not really a lot more. The wires break almost as easily as the cable ties. They do have the advantage of requiring smaller holes and you can space several wires more closely if needed. Also, you can use a screw driver tip to push the wires down closer on the interior so the fillet can be smaller but if you are careful the cable ties don't intrude that far. Just plan your holes so whichever you use is close to the other surface- in other words, stay as close to the edges as you safely can with the holes.

Personally I'll use cable ties in the future if possible, but wouldn't hesitate to go to wire when that seemed best. AND - don't forget dry wall screws - our new wonder fastener http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

[Ted Ford]

Have just finished building a CLC 14 ft kayak (stitch and glue plywood) for my son. Used mostly copper wire as supplied in the kit, but also used some nylon ties in spots where I wasn't sure of the alignment. You can put the tie in loosely and then tighten it up gradually. The plastic ties I just planed off after the epoxy set. You do have to use larger holes for the plastic ties.

Others have used wide masking tape to bring the edges together, especially where there is not much strain on the wood. I've done this mostly to touch up areas between the wires that didn't fit to well.

I prefer to remove the wires. Get a small butane lighter or small butane torch which produces a small,focused, hot blue flame. Cut one end of the wire close to the hull and grasp the other end with a small vice-grip about 1" away from the hull. Heat the 1" part with the lighter and with minimal pressure, the wire comes out. I got some minor burn marks on the hull, but this was the part I will paint.

What they said about drywall screws.

[Charlie J]

Ted - just tried this today. Try using a soldering gun instead of the torch - takes 2 - 3 seconds per wire and you don't risk burning the boat. I tried it after reading your post earlier- if you cut at the twist, you can heat either end. Works slick!! http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

[Charlie J]

Ted - just tried this today. Try using a soldering gun instead of the torch - takes 2 - 3 seconds per wire and you don't risk burning the boat. I tried it after reading your post earlier- if you cut at the twist, you can heat either end. Works slick!! http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

[Charlie J]

Ted - just tried this today. Try using a soldering gun instead of the torch - takes 2 - 3 seconds per wire and you don't risk burning the boat. I tried it after reading your post earlier- if you cut at the twist, you can heat either end. Works slick!! http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

[Ted Ford]

c e

Sounds like the best idea yet - will try when I build my own kayak this Spring.

[Jeff Kelety]

Wire using the smallest vice-grip for tightening. Lots of control that way. Did a Pygmy Boat's wherry with this method. Worked great.

jgk

[This message has been edited by Jeff Kelety (edited 12-23-2001).]

[John Bell]

I've got some pictures on the web of one of my boats stitched up nylon cable ties. Who knows, maybe one of the sites you saw was mine?

http://www.mindspring.com/~jmbell/dory5.jpe

Anyway, I've only done one S&G boat and that one with cable ties. I liked 'em. Next S&G boat will be stitched with the same. YMMV.

JB

[Eb]

Copper wire gives me the most control while bringing the edges together. If you get an area too tight, you have the ability to loosen. Then I "spot weld" the seams with small blobs of thickened epoxy between the wire ties. Next day clip the wires, they fall out, and you're ready to fillet and tape the seams. Makes for one extra step at first, but taping goes on smooth and there are no holes to go back and deal with after taping.

Eb

[Mike Field]

You beat me to it, Eb. I was about to say that you can always remove the ties completely if you're content to do the filleting in two stages -- stage one, put in enough spot-welds of glue to hold the pieces properly while you remove the stitches, then stage two, finish the glueing along the full length of each seam.

[wolfietuk]

I will put in my vote for tabbing spots then pulling wires before filleting the whole seam. Do not leave the wires in as suggested by a previous post.

Rick