3m5200, lifespan, and use as a glue.

[RonW]

3m5200, does anyone have a idea or facts as to the lifespan of this product? I am using it right now and am totally amazed by it,s strength.
Also what would the opinion be, as to using it as a adhesive instead of epoxy, for a strip built boat. By strip built I am referring to a 22footer built using 3/4 in. thick by about 1 and 1/8 in. wide strips glued and nailed around forms and frames.Looking at glen-l's eagle. Thanks.

[Tonyr]

I would suggest PL Premium instead of the 3M product. This is what I am using for my Eagle. It is cheaper, entirely strong enough, and easier to handle than 5200, which would be overkill for the application.

Have you looked at the PL Premium discussion?

Tony.

[John E Hardiman]

Originally posted by RonW:
3m5200, does anyone have a idea or facts as to the lifespan of this product? I am using it right now and am totally amazed by it,s strength.
It has been my experience that its lifespan and holding power are too short if you want it to stay together and too long if you want it come apart... :D , But then the same can be said of any other sealer/adhesive I've used.

Honestly, a lot depends on exposure, immersion, and temperture. Seen some good uses for installing "fixed" objects if the exposed seam is protected. Seen some poor uses trying to "fix" a hull problem.

[RonW]

Thanks. I should have probably labeled this thread stip planking .Currently I am building a western driftboat and am using 3m5200 in all seams where it will not be exsposed and think it will outlast me.
BUT- my real question was if you built a traditional strip plank boat, such as glen-l's 22ft. round hull lobster boat, using approx. 3/4 in. thick by 1 & 1/8 in. wide strips that are nailed, what is the best to use between the planking for longevity? 3m5200? rescorinol? epoxy? This is a simple enough method, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion as to adhesives? It seems assumed that one would automatically use the wonder glue epoxy.I have read very old posts on this board concerning 40 and 50 foot sailboats that where strip planked, and marine surveys say they are still sound due to the fact they where never encapsulated with glass that would trap moisture.
Howard Chappelle in his boatbuilding manual discuss the method and has one sentence,kinda like a afterthought, that it would be a good idea to use a waterproof glue between the planking.His book was written in 1941, and he says this method isn't very favorable among builders due to the cost of nails.Times have changed.By this I wonder if some of the hulls built by this method in the 20's and 30's where put together tight enough that they did not use glue, between the planks?
And if you did use a glue, what would be the lifespan on some of our choices. After 30 years would the 3m crack like old window glazing? Would epozy become brittle and crack allowing water in? Would (someone) then be in a situation to wateproof the hull to revert back to covering the hull with fiberglass.I have also read of a method where by the edge of the strips where slightly compressed before being applied to boat, and then they automatically swelled tighter then a drum.In my thinking this could lead to a hull without being reliant on glue, and properly maintained with oil based marine paints could outlast my grandson.Would appreciate any more info on strip planking.
Tony, would like to know how thick and wide your strips are for the eagle, what are you using for nails and how is it working out? Thanks.

[Frank Wentzel]

The Gougeon brothers built Adagio, a 35 foot trimaran, in 1969. It was the first large epoxy/wood structure built using no fasteners. It is entirely epoxy encapsulated. The Fall 2002 issue of Epoxyworks ( http://westsystem.com/ewmag/ ) relates their experience in the 2002 Chicago to Mackinac race in which Adagio sailed through 70 mph gusts. I would take this to mean she is not rotting away from epoxy sickness.

I think that epoxy coating destroys a boat when the epoxy is put on a tired, waterlogged old hull that is already rotting and was not designed for epoxy in the first place. Carvel planked hulls move quite a lot. You can't expect epoxy and a couple of layers of glass to stop the movement in an old hull. If you put enough glass on to stop the movement you are still encapsulating wet , rotting wood. The restricted access to air will only slow the rotting process for a time.

If you use epoxy on a new stable structure, such as a strip planked hull or cold molded hull, you have the potential of a very long life. Without a requiring restoration or a rebuild how many construction methods would yield a boat that could withstand hurricane force winds when she is 33 years old.

As to using resorcinol on a stip planked boat, I think a number of refernces have been made in the past on the need to have very tight clamping and tight control over the temperature during the cure. I wouldn't like to bet on being able to do that throughout the whole process of planking a strip planked hull.

5200 would probably make a good hull. Polyurethanes can be very stable. I think I would ask 3-M for an estimate of the lifespan of their product. I have never heard of it "drying" or cracking. The only complaint has been that it does its job too well. However, the question might be: do you want to be the one who builds the first such hull, an "Adagio" in 5200.

That my $.02 and worth at least half that!

/// Frank ///

[JormaS]

To my knowledge 5200 is a bedding compound/glue. 3M also makes a "real" glue which is called 5230. It´s a well proven product intended specifically for glueing wood. Maybe you should chek it out.

[NormMessinger]

I've used less than one tube of PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive ( I beleive I got the exact name right this time.) but I sure like what the stuff seems to do. Need more experience and testimonials like John Blezy offers but at the moment I'd consider using it for strip planking expecially if it were to be sheathed with glass. About $3 bucks a tube vs. $12 for 5200.

[Steve Lansdowne]

The question of using 5300 as adhesive has, I recall, been discussed not long ago on the forum. Try the search function to see what you come up with.