View Full Version : Americas cup stuff contd. and more modest events...

John B
10-20-2002, 10:19 PM
cont'd from old misc.
They're all resting at the moment. Wownd wobin two starts next week.
Defi will be fitting their new forestay. Oracle will be having lots of meetings, perhaps about fitting a topsail... ,. One world will be smug, GBR joyous,Prada will be discussing heat and it's effect on epoxy ( supposition based upon gossip and rumour only) Victory will be very positive. Stars... Um can they get into the 4? Alinghi? they're in for sure but not the record that One world have. Who Have I missed? TIM! Mascalzone. Having fun.

Currently you would expect it to be One World, Alinghi and Oracle to go through.

The fourth? Prada,Stars, Victory or GBR. I don't know... Victory started coming on pretty strong. You'd expect it to be Prada wouldn't you, but they have some team fractures. And Dennis. He's not down until he's down and stamped on. OOO it'll be good next week.

[ 10-20-2002, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

John B
10-20-2002, 10:35 PM
Some interesting stuff in the papers on the weekend. A supposition that Oracle has indeed added sail area and removed lead to improve light air performance.
Big discussions hinge around who will bring out their second boats. Apparently SWE may do. What about Dennis Connors Das Boot imitator.( I said "DRIVE, DRIVE") It's been out trialling so we might see a more competitive boat there.
IT's all on tommorrow.

I'm crewing on a boat in our coastal classic with all our winter race team... Our classics crew for that matter too. Quite funny really. Between the 5 crew we have 4 keelboats to choose from. Tony wanted to give his 1975 glass 32 footer a run so it's 120 miles starting friday 10am. I hope we can average better than 5. We've used one of the boats for the winter series, one for the wednesday night racing( just started) This un for the coastal classic , and Waione will come out for some classics racing soon and our big international classics regatta in early Feb.
Spent yesterday on the boat checking over all the gear... making a few adjustments for the safety category.ooooo it's agunna be good.
230 entries so far. 275 last year but a whole heap pulled out because of the weather.

John B
10-21-2002, 10:21 PM
No racing today. Blustery. Prada is trotting around with a new uglyfast bow after having her prettybutslow bow removed plus numerous other changes to hull and rig. Looks like SWE is coming out with their second boat but Stars and Stripes is reported as continuing with the same un.
They actually still have races to complete for the 1st round robin . That's another day.

Wild Wassa
10-21-2002, 10:39 PM
Hi Super Skipper. Thanks for the update. Good comment about JC. I might go and have a small wager on JC, now. I've held off having a bet looking for better odds.


ps, I might check to see if the odds for One World are still backable, as a saver only. I'll let you know what the odds for Team NZ are, although I imagine they'll be red.

Wild Wassa
10-21-2002, 11:12 PM
For the competitive Sportsmen,

Team NZ, 7/10 in the red.
Oneworld 5/2
Alinghi 3/1
Oracle 17/1
Prada 23/1
GBR 25/1
Stars and Stripes 28/1, my $1 is looking good :D .

For the other's write your own tickets.
La Defi is 1500/1

I hope this helps ... ... finance Xmas.


[ 10-22-2002, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

10-21-2002, 11:12 PM
Ditto, thanks for the update

John E Hardiman
10-22-2002, 09:39 AM
I think what we need to remember here is that all boats save one make it into the quarter finals. Now the question becomes wether you want to be in the top 4 because they sail less (equipment breakage vs money availible) or in the bottom 4 (more on the water time vs more chance to break equipment).
I think the smart move is to be in the top 4, lose the RED A round in 7, sail the extra YELLOW round, and then you only have to win the FINAL. This seems to be the best balance bewteen number of races and on the water time. Notice that the winner of the RED A round has to beat her fastest opponent TWICE, once in RED A and once in the FINAL. The boat that loses RED A only has to win the FINAL.(Both statements assuming the top 4 boats ARE faster than the bottom 4...) ;)

Wild Wassa
10-22-2002, 02:56 PM
X+zy = htn ... ???. The LV Cup scoring system explained. Http://www.gbrchallenge.com


John B
10-23-2002, 03:22 PM
Odd day on the water yesterday from what I could see of the coverage.One race charging along in 10, another stalled for no wind just a mile away.
Mascalzone lead One World to the first mark. Prada came out all guns firing with her modifications and beat Mascalzone in the morning ( to finish RR1) and ORACLE in the afternoon. MAN.
The debris from that result is starting to come to earth this morning with Holmberg losing his job as Oracle skipper and being replaced by Chris Dixon.
Chris Dixon (NZ)is a phenomenal helmsman with vast experience behind him .Tag heur whitbread, Tokio Am cup, world matchracing champ for a number of years, "glassgate". remember that in Perth? One of the great TV eyeball to eyeballs Him and Dennis. He's been a bit out in the cold as far as AM cup( NZ) is concerned since then. Probably some personality conflict historically I think. He's regarded as bit of a MacEnroe of sailing. Wild talent, fantastic skill, probably said a bit more than he meant to at some times in the past. He's going to be a man to watch.
His father Roy is a phenomenal sailor. Raced all his life. I'd forgotten until we met up with them one year cruising,that Roy was part of the crew on the S and S Rainbow when she took the One ton cup in OOOooo 1970 was it?Chris Bouzaid.I was at school then. they were Gods. Roy built a boat called Tuahine, which seems to get lumped together with Waione a lot when I've read old race results or talked to previous owners and crew.Currently he owns a Stewart 34 which some of you will recognise from the matchracing championships like the Citizen of only a few years ago.
So Chris was brought up working on, sailing on and racing ever since he was a wee fella.As I say, a man to watch.

10-23-2002, 06:54 PM

10-23-2002, 07:40 PM
The question: Length + 1.25 X Square root of the sail area - 9.8 X cube root of the displacement divided by .679 is less than/equal to 24 meters. Answer: THE AMERICA'S CUP IS COMING TO SEATTLE!! (where it will be sailed in very light and flukey winds on flat water-- a whole different kind of boat/race).

10-24-2002, 06:40 AM
And I was thinking that area of the world was one of the best for sailing....so you have great scenery, interesting sailing grounds to explore, a ton of rain and crummy winds...eh? :( ...

John B
10-28-2002, 04:15 PM
I've been away racing but the last 4 days of AM cup have been cancelled anyway.Funny, yesterday we were coming up the harbour in 40 and the only other boat with main and jib up was an old AM cup boat used for charter daysailing. She was trucking along. It left me thinking about the conversation we'd had here a while back about the range they have for racing these boats. 19 is too low for sure.

regarding weather here....The spring equinox is renowned for its polarised wind conditions.
Generally I expect weather in 3 to 5 day cycles of good v bad. If we get say, 2 weeks of pristine good weather, look out. we are going to have to pay for it with a burst of bad.

Anyway, as far as the racing is concerned, they are hopefully running 2 races a day to catch up.

Alan D. Hyde
10-28-2002, 04:26 PM
Thanks, John.


John B
10-29-2002, 09:42 PM
Wed 30th.
Bizarre days racing for sure.
That race .. one world v stars abandoned because the time limit ran out on the last leg. about 5 minutes frm the finish. The wierd thing was the course change. I was thinking that this was a race between One world and the race committee and i'm sure that that is what would have happened tonight in the protest room. They were sailing down to the noises( islands actually in the course)and the new mark, (mark boat) chased the two boats down and then dropped the anchor Behind them. BEHIND them. The trailing boat ( stars)became the lead boat
Oracle and victory had good racing with Oracle in front but the race abandoned 1 minute away from finishing.
Mascalzone was beating prada. BEATING PRADA for a guarantee of being able to stay racing. They choked big time. Just before the finish they wineglassed the gennaker and were overtaken.
Alinghi beat GBR.

Wild Wassa
10-30-2002, 03:41 AM
Hi John B, Today was the most interesting day's racing that I could ever imagine.

Stars and Stripes giving it to OneWorld at the second mark, was brilliant. Moving the mark over rocks with a depth of 4 metres was even more exciting.

S&S was robbed. :( . The win would have been good for S&S. There was no sticking to the centre of the course today. I think this is what cost S&S the time. There was no chance of not overstanding the laylines all day. OneWorld refusing to answer the Umpire's offer of a withdral. I thought this was very impressive. When you are leading why would you? 'But' comming home with a red flag flying, the Skipper wanted everything. Alinghi right up Jimmy's hammer at the end. That was cool.

How come Mescalzone Latino's crew haven't mutinied. Is there any win that they can't destroy? You lead and hang on for 7/8 of the race, typical. I thought they were trying to push Prada off the wind when it happened. They deserved what happened to them, :D . I don't see ML matchracing, only sprinting. Every time they try to mix it, they blow it.


ps, Alinghi's performance is the performance of a worthy challenger.

[ 10-30-2002, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

John B
10-30-2002, 02:38 PM
They are beginning to look like the ones eh.

Wild Wassa
10-30-2002, 03:28 PM
John B, to have started on the same course, 5 minutes after S&S and OW, and to have completed their race, I thought was very impressive by Alinghi. When I switched off the race, Alinghi had finished and was 7 minutes ahead of GBR, on the short course.

Coutts and Butterworth must be working as one. Whoever is relaying info to their boat is on the ball.


[ 10-30-2002, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

John B
10-30-2002, 04:19 PM
They know each individual wave in those waters by name Warren.

John B
10-30-2002, 09:42 PM
The big race today was the oracle/ one world match up. Farr v Davidson. this time it's Oracle/Farr with just some great pre start stuff. First one world scored a penalty against Oracle. then Oracle came back and held them out so they missed the start line altogether but in doing so crossed early. Oracle still had time to dip back behind and go out ahead of OW.Then they just sailed away to put in a 300m lead before doing their penalty turn.

Prada. despite all that goes on, these guys are 3rd on points.
Some media speculation about GBR control difficulties. "Bigger rudder needed" is being said.

Wild Wassa
10-31-2002, 02:31 AM
John B, Is Dennis C actually on the boat during the races?

Win the start, ...win the race. All bar one start, today, I think. Is that how you saw it?

NZ Telecom had hickups today, I missed the middle game in each race this morning. I didn't see Oracle take her penalty, :( .

Alinghi's start was outstanding, and couragous.
Oracle and OneWorld, the start was excellent, I thought that the Committee's boat was lucky, :eek: .


[ 10-31-2002, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

martin schulz
10-31-2002, 04:11 AM
Just had a look at the ALINGHI website to see whats up. They have a picture-link there and I clicked it to see great pictures - to tell you the truth, the pictures are great. But looking at them brought me back to thinking that those 12m Yachts they agreed on for the Americas Cup were designed as long keel wooden boats.

And the sight of one of those cruising down the Flensburg Bay is greater than anything the modern Americas Cup can offer.



WESTWIND on the Flensburg Förde


John B
10-31-2002, 05:59 PM
It's a shame that the 12's evolved into those guppies

10-31-2002, 06:38 PM

[ 10-31-2002, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

John B
10-31-2002, 09:16 PM
whooohoooo. Oracle bt Alinghi. What a race!!
Dunno why I like that boat so much. Just that it's so different.

Wild Wassa
10-31-2002, 09:51 PM
Congratulation Louis Vuitton Cup. What a day.


ps, Great race Oracle. The delta was 4 seconds. Alinghi caught up good distance in the duels. If the boats were closer the crews could have shacken hands.

[ 11-02-2002, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Wild Wassa
11-11-2002, 07:20 PM
John B, you must be having wild weather (peaking to 38 kts), when they abandoned the day's racing at 7.30 am.


[ 11-11-2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

John B
11-11-2002, 07:36 PM
It's blowing so hard I took my cellphone off my belt when walking down the marina at lunchtime. The rigs off all the boats are wailing like banshees.

news this morning says...
Prada is keeping their old boat going.
Stars is changing to the Das boot model.
One World is pulling out their new boat too.

Articles on Chris Dickson appearing in the media.
Usually titled something like "flawed genious".

Wild Wassa
11-12-2002, 12:08 AM
Coutts said that 'they' were racing Prada because Prada was the boat that was most likely to develop and improve, and would be the real test. Coutts is a real Champion.

I bet Coutts would rather be field testing against the black and silver boat, :D .

The pairings are excellent. This is where Jimmy C will catch up again.

White Lightning and La Dephi are a interesting pair. I hope they can improve.