NZ regatta. Day 3 .Last day

[John B]

Day Three was a light forecast. Thank goodness for that. 2 heavy days left us tired and with a breakage in the first time racing all these years. Also attrition in the rest of the fleet with 1 broken gaff mast due to being set up ALL WRONG at a design or redesign level and failing when stressed. One broken boom on Ngataringa due to tired old aluminium and enthusiastic use of a boom vang LOL… and as I said in another thread, a big split in the new mast of Tucana. I discovered it while aloft fixing our own broken peak halyard on Saturday afternoon. Not good news to impart to her Skipper.( Well actually, they thanked me for finding it) Ngataringa and co located an old ali boom off a similar vessel and worked until 2.00 am to get the fittings swapped over so they could race Sunday. Tucana’s skipper also burnt some midnight oil and made a temporary repair and was happy to do the race also (given the light forecast). Tucana carried on to get the gun on Sunday to add to the two she heard over the two previous days.

Light reach on a dropping breeze so that there was a log jam at the first mark with only 50 footers and a 60 ( Ranger) in front of us but the rest of the fleet right there behind us.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pb8f0e4ae0248207bd8a053eb9c517c91/f523a0e2.jpg

Bah. Imagestation has gone slow. more pics later....

[ 02-14-2005, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/p9fb91b493063703b0d10d4d8e8a519e5/f523a0d3.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/p0e3a45bbaedf71fbf8914e245f7199d8/f523a0c7.jpg
we rounded that mark in about 5th. stayed that way for the next 3 legs and got overtaken by one classic ( Ngataringa) and thats how we finished. All those guys in front ran kites too.( not Ngataringa.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pb1e687fce2ee39eb52dd4eb1d84bd460/f523a061.jpg

[ 02-14-2005, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Hwyl]

I seem to be becoming the resident sail critic. I wish Ian or Tod or Thad would jump in.

But..... That sail might look better with a little less clew outhaul and lots less tension on the boom lacings. Just my opinion.

[John B]

I don't mind. , I noticed that in the photo and nearly didn't use it because it was there.Our foot isn't adjustable actually.I did experiment with that but its such a pain with the lacings ..... I have some nice 1940's slides and I could fit a bronze flat bar type track for them........
I do like a flat sail though (Because we're fundamentally overcanvassed and trying to go high with the bermudans)so I'm inclined to think that I could reset the foot a fraction tighter to get the designed shape in it.When I say tighter I mean only just firm. We get much greater shape control just playing the peak and throat halyards and what I suspect is that when I dumped off the throat.., as I do when I want more draft and power ,if the foot didn't slacken off a fraction from the tack. not sure.

[martin schulz]

Just from your observation John.

Do you think that most boats were Gaffers and have been re-rigged? Over here a lot of boats have been re-rigged in the 70s because their owners (or the new owners) had the feeling that they couldn't compete anymore. Another reason to put a bermuda-rig on ex-gaffers was most likely also the idea that gaffers are too complicated to handle.

The 12mR society in Germany has a very neat logotype picturing a closesailed 12 with a large gaffsail and a topsail (of course with 2 yards). But nobody has a gaff anymore - what a bunch of wimps ;)

[John B]

Yes, thats what happened a lot Martin. By the same token, there an awful lot of really fine boats from 1930 on which always were bermudan.
NZ has never really had the numbers of wealthy 'Yachtsmen' that the older countries have .Of course there were some but yachting here has historically been an egalitarian sort of pastime that anyone can get involved in. This is changing now (obviously) in general ,and with some high profile people and wealthy people moving across into classic boats.

But going back historically there wasn't money to build new boats so the old ones were kept going as the only option.

Use Waione as a case in point. Built as a gaff cutter with topsail in 1907. She went OK. By 1930 all the bermudans were starting to arrive and she became un competitive. The new owners in 1930 decided to hot her up but couldn't afford to go to a new mast . So they threw away the topsail, lengthened the gaff and peaked her up to about 15 degrees off the vertical all in a mainsail of about 700 sq ft.They added lead to the keel. She sailed that way until 1950 when she lost her mast in a race and she was then re rigged bermudan with a 45 ft hoist. In 1960 that mast came out and she got a spruce mast of 50 ft hoist ( 500 sq ft main)and raced regularly.
after that she was progressively cut down in the rig for cruising . we bought her in 1983 and have reconfigured her 3 times , including the last change to a gaff topsail rig about 6 years ago. Still all done on the cheap using gear and the mast we had( the typical kiwi way).

But then you have a threshold too. Waione is managable at her size and with some concessions to technology. We have winches so we can use her ( and use her we do).
Iorangi.. another case . 52 ft long 1901 Logan. Very much a similar story.. numerous rig changes over 100 years. 5 years ago John bought her and he has restored the hull and decks to an original configuration and fitted an ali rig with swept spreaders and all the strings you'd find on a modern racer. The man who designed his rig also designed Zana ( Konica Minolta, the one that dropped off the back of a 10 metre wave in the sydney hobart and broke) So its fairly hot as a rig.
Why. Because at 52 ft Iorangi would be UNUSABLE as an authentic gaff rig for anything apart from racing.
Iorangi's rig
http://www.bakewell-white.com/pages/Iorxxxl.gif
So the 40 footers and smaller are getting the gaffs and the bigger ones( there's only really a couple anyway ) are getting bermudan because hey, an unused boat is a dead boat.

[ 02-16-2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

all the boats in the photos above have the correct rigs( if its just Bermudan V gaff) for their age. Although there are interpretations within those categories as well.
If you go back to a previous thread and look for Prize. She's 1923 rerigged to a fantastic bermudan rig in the 1940's so she's actually been bermudan longer than she was gaff and deserves kudos for that. Another boat, Moana 1894,originally gaff (but not racing this time ) has a bermudan/ marconi rig that was fitted in 1930 and she is a absolute time capsule of how to rig a boat in 1930.

[ 02-15-2005, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Jase]

by the same token, as long as you don't use the topsail, Rawene is a very usable 42 footer with 2 strong adults and a 12 yr old to steer, we even set the leader a few weeks ago and had a great thrash up the harbour.... it's the packup that always buggers me smile.gif winches sminches... :D

[John B]

That's what I'm talking about with thresholds Jase. They can't do that in Ariki and they couldn't do it in Iorangi
How many times has Rawene been out this year apart from the racing? Any ?
See Rawene is this most gorgeous of things ... a jewel.. like finding a 1 owner car in a garage with 20,000 miles on it and a cover over it. She deserves to be the way she is and to get used the way she's used.
Our boat is our only boat. we cruise it as a family boat and bring her along to the occasional classics race. So I have to make sure that my wife and I can handle it in varying conditions. If by some miracle I got money, I'd reconfigure the boat and use it like Rawene too. Course I'd need a nice 45.. 50 ft schoooner to go cruising in then......

[ 02-15-2005, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Jase]

yeah once for a shake down sail about a week before the Mahurangi weekend (2 adults one child), prior to that we have been doing "alot" of maintenance this year... all the mechanicals seem to be showing their age..... I keep making comment to Russel about how nice furling head sails and non human winches would be :D hehe

[John B]

I tell you what I think of Rawene. Before Christmas, various Classic yacht assn members were canvassed as to which boats they thought were the most significant classic boats in this country. ‘Please give us a list 1 to 10’.
I declined on the 10 number and stated that in my opinion Rawene was the number 1 classic yacht in this country by virtue of her undisturbed and truly original state ,followed closely by Ariki because of her status as scratch and champion yacht from 1905 to 1938. I felt that since Ariki had had the substantial rebuilds over the years that Rawene pipped in just ahead.
Rawene, Ariki, Ranger.in that order is what I said.

[Steveh]

And here am I taking Ngatira back to original gaff, no winches. I know you think I’m nuts John but at some point you draw a line in the sand, and I guess in my case I’ve not taken enough steps forward before drawing that line.

The comments I’ve had after the article in the MCCYB have been mostly favourable. In saying that also some of those like me haven’t really sailed a gaffer before.

I had the opportunity to sail on two gaffs the last two boats I’ve sailed. And I jumped at the prospect of getting some handy (handy billy) hints under the arm.

WeeeHeeeEeel.... Have I got the jist of sailing these old timers. Throw up everything you’ve got and watch the consequences. Two masts in two weeks. The out take on all that, if you’re thinking its time to take down a top sail, or put one up for that matter, or reduce to staysail don’t just sit on it, DO IT, because it’s all going to come crashing down around your ears. The Waitangi admittedly had a shot mast at the hounds. And you reckon Spray’s set up for the runners was not right. The back stay runs to a band/ring fitting 3/4 up the top mast to oppose the running foresail stay. The peak halyard blocks are the bottom position a 1/4 the way up the top position 1/2 way and the bow sprit stay at the very top. Which the foreheadsail was hanked onto. This did pump the top mast forward as there was no opposing stay. The running stay that slides out the bow sprit went to the runner band which is correct by my reckoning. But the forestay ??? Take a look at these pics John. http://oceanphotography.co.nz/02%20February/index%2011-02.htm We were hanked on to the forestay both days.

Now is this wrong or right? Wrong, obviously for the conditions. The break was due to gear failure. A stainless steel S hook off the highfield lever to the back stay straightened out due to overload. We took it past it’s stress loading. No back stay , no support.

Ngatira I’m guessing will run a wire luffed foreheadsail hanked onto the free running stay. This set up is described in John Leathers Gaff Handbook. The fore stay never really having any sail attached to it. Maybe a blooper for light work.

It’s pretty handy that billy!! Never really used one apart from undoing an override on the genoa winches when I used to race on board Patiki’s way back. This will no doubt be an important piece of equipment on board Ngatira when she’s back in the water. Once we got the hang of it we were getting real fast at pulling in the staysail after tacking.

[John B]

That boat has been set up wrong wrong wrong so don't beat yourself up about it. There's no way that a jib should be on the headstay in that configuration unless its ghosting. Rigs aren't rocket science.If there's a strain on it one way, there should be something opposing it whether its a peak halyard , an aft stay /shroud or a runner. Something is required. In that configuration there is nothing. nothing. Its a miracle its been there for this long. As I said to You and Jay, a gaff rig should be able to sail on the wind without runners because the circle of force is completed by mainsheet tension, through the leech to the peak , to the jib ,to the bowsprit and to the bobstay. Runners are for pumping through a chop and for reaching /running. Hell, even running we will drop them off well before the gybe now( depending on conditions and sail set etc etc) so we don't end up losing our boom in a standing gybe like Sorceress did before christmas.

[ 02-15-2005, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Jase]

SteveH, were you on the yawl spray? that moors up at greenhithe??

some cheeky bugger who motored her down to the viaduct yelled something at me as i was painting Lolomas butt on thursday dried out at Herald Island that sounded an aweful lot like nice butt, heh, I hope he was talking about the boat :D <shiver>

[John B]

Steve ( Ngatira intheshed) was on the yawl Spray AND the cutter Waitangi ( different weekends)and experienced BOTH dismastings or part dismastings which makes him either very lucky ,( still has all limbs and digits)or not someone you want on board. :D

Johnny R has suggested I could post the imagestation link to his album of photos which includes a beautiful shot of Rawene.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=21 30677853 (http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2130677853)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p8ec9f825d23393ce286bb50165c0c226/f51dccdc.jpg
I just love the way that topsail is flaking off. Thats the day we went around with one reef and no topsail.

[ 02-15-2005, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Jase]

sounds like a Jinx tongue.gif to me :D

[Jase]

although, everytime i motor past Spray i think she's in rubbish condition so that may have been it... why don't you take SteveH out on Waione and test the theory John.... I dare you.... :D

[John B]

I ASKED him and he said that not 10 minutes earlier he'd agreed to go on Spray .

See ,....

Waione is a lucky ship. :D
ROFL.

[Jase]

whew, ROTFLMAO :D Your lucky day tongue.gif

[Wild Dingo]

This thread should be prescribed readin pervin and leerin to all woodenboat nuts abidin on the woodenboat forum...

thanks John an co for a fine thread with the finest kind of boats doin their thing!

Legendary stuff mates :cool:

Of course I would put Waione at number 2 at least but hey Im biased I love the old girl ;)

[John B]

Shane!! Back for a holiday are you. ;)

[Steveh]

Yeah Jase, that was jay lawry (NZ Maritime Restoration School) onboard, borrowing Spray for the regatta and he is defineately inclined towards the fairer sex... that being of the female kind and not fair haired boys! To many yaers at sea I’m afraid. Funny thing about us blokes though, we do like running our hands over our boats bottoms. There must be some Freudian theories on this.

Jay had to text the owner that couldn’t make it on the Sat and give him the good news and the bad news. The bad news was he wouldn’t be sailing the good news was he was getting a new top section of mast! Still, the best bloke to have breaking your boat then any.

Spray is presently going through a sale. The owner spending a lot on other stuff and obviously not much on looks.

When are you going sailing next John? I have some theories I’d like to try out.

[John B]

Does it involve your feet and my deck ?

[Wild Dingo]

Yeah John mate back for a week of R&R or rather Work and more work!!! strewth this mob can make a list! ;)

ah yes where were we... my feet your deck??? WHEN!!!!????? Strewth what Id give for that one!! :cool: ... ah right that was for Steve ah well about this here baby of ours John mate whens it my turn to have her? I mean come on bloke!! I reckon you have had her long enough ol mate its about time she came and visited her other dad over in the warm waters of West Aussie... mmmmm????

Now back to the porn!!! Come on more pics if you please!!!

[John B]

Yes Shane, that comment was for Steve- the typhoid mary of rigs-h.
seriously though, he's welcome to come on board on a light day and so long as he doesn't touch anything.....
:D
Plenty more pics pal. there's 4 threads running on the same regatta!( 3 are mine lol)
You looked at the others?

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by John B:
You looked at the others?Well mate I ever find me eyeballs again now theyre under the desk rollin around in the sludgepool of drool yous buggars have caused I may just be able to look at other boat porn... although now I think youve buggared my appreciation level totally.. damn you Kiwi's!!! such fine boats but so far away! Whats wrong with yous fellas that yous keep em down there where its bloody cold all the time they should be here where its warm and the Indian Ocean would appeciate swishin against their precious bums!!
ooooohhh me achin eyeballs!! but such a pleasurable pain it is... Oi does the fact that me eyes cant stop purvin on those fine boats even to the extent of bouncin of the floor an ceilin make me a boatmasochist? :D

Stunning stuff mate! :cool:

[Jase]

my new favorite Pic smile.gif impressive hole you have left in the water there John...

http://www.fordrsoc.org.nz/jase/john2.jpg

[John B]

Between you and Johnny R at mahurangi, we've got some of the best pictures we've ever seen of the boat. I laugh every time I see Kirsty out on that bowsprit too( in other shots of yours).Poor girl. at least she knows she's alive eh. :D

[Jase]

http://www.fordrsoc.org.nz/jase/Kirsty.jpg

Good god you aren't joking are you :D :eek: hahaha you have her well trained John, lol :eek:

[John B]

:D

Jase ,did you read that thread over in designs/plans about how gaff boats don't sail to windward with the bermudans?

I give up. :rolleyes:

[ 02-17-2005, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Jase]

Yup I just rolled my eyes..... :rolleyes: even Harold on friday said something to the effect of my god she goes to windward doesn't she!! smile.gif

I can think off the top of my head about 6 or so bermudans who we climbed out from under because they couldn't point as high, especially saturday..... a yacht from Omokoroa... the name escapes me.... was the funniest, he just watched us steam over him, lol

Monkeys everywhere :D