Keelbolts

[amidships]

Guys,

any recommendations for suppliers of keelbolts for a Folkboat - I'm based in Nova Scotia but guess I may have to go stateside?

Looking for Silicon Bronze I guess but happy to be put right.

Regards
Amidships

[imported_Jimmy]

I would be surprised if you can actually buy bolts the right size for your boat. My understanding is that they would have to be made for the boat (although I am not familiar with your boat). You need to find a supplier that has bronze rod of the right diameter, have it cut to length (every bolt may be a different length) and then have threads cut in the ends. The first step would be to make sure you can get the bronze rod (and make sure that bronze is what you shoud use, I assume you have a lead keel). Next see if it is possible to get a keel bolt out (getting them out is a whole different topic, in some cases, they are cast into the keel or threaded into the keel and won't come out). If you can get one out, use it as a pattern to make a new one and if the old one was in good shape (try to pull the worst looking one) consider not replacing any of the others.

[ahp]

Folkboats have a cast iron keel.

[reddog]

amidships;
Check with Lunenburg Foundry in Lunenburg.Peter Tanner in Blue Rocks could probably fabricate some if you need stainless.With a cast iron keel you will probably be looking for galvanized iron bolts.
Was that your Folk Boat I saw on Sealand's trailer in Mariotts Cove last week?

Earl

[imported_Jimmy]

If you have a cast iron keel, I believe bronze bolts are not a good choice. Something as close to the material used for the keel as possible, probably just mild steel.

[amidships]

Originally posted by reddog:
amidships;
Check with Lunenburg Foundry in Lunenburg.Peter Tanner in Blue Rocks could probably fabricate some if you need stainless.With a cast iron keel you will probably be looking for galvanized iron bolts.
Was that your Folk Boat I saw on Sealand's trailer in Mariotts Cove last week?

EarlHi Earl, more than likely - it was on its way from South Shore Marina to my home in Upper Cornwall.....do you know the boat?

I agree re: galvanised - that's what she has at present - not sure of age of the current ones though.

[amidships]

Originally posted by Jimmy:
If you have a cast iron keel, I believe bronze bolts are not a good choice. Something as close to the material used for the keel as possible, probably just mild steel.Thanks for your reply - think you could be right - galvanised seems to be the concensus.....a lot cheaper than SB and closer on the galvanic scale too!

Regards

[reddog]

amidships;
I'm not familiar with the boat but it caught my eye. Not too many of those designs in the area and the lapstrake planking stands out.A fine looking boat. Upper Cornwall is a hike from the salt water.

Earl

[amidships]

Originally posted by reddog:
amidships;
I'm not familiar with the boat but it caught my eye. Not too many of those designs in the area and the lapstrake planking stands out.A fine looking boat. Upper Cornwall is a hike from the salt water.

EarlHi Earl,

Yes, she is unusual, especially as she has the 3 portholes (oval) on each side and an extended cabin top. The lapstrake is typical of an Ontario built boat (from what I've seen) as she only has 4 planks above the waterline (15 planks total, each side) at midships - most other Folkboats seem to have 5.

She will be a beautiful boat once more - she's mahogany on oak and the rest is teak - quite a beauty.

Yes, Upper Cornwall is a fair way from the sea - however, she'll be floating in Mahone Bay in 2006, all being well. Just need to drop the ballast keel and repair the keelson/keelbolts, lay a teak deck (if I can find some teak in NS), fit-out some extras in the interior (if I can find some mahogany in NS) and refinish/repaint etc.

David
aka Amidships

[Ruaridh]

Hmm...I don't completely agree that you shouldn't use SB if you want, but I'm happy to stand corrected.
I made a new for'd keel bolt for my folkboat out of SB rod, and just tapped threads manually, it worked fine. Can anyone say categorically that SB shouldn't be used with an iron keel? I'm sure I've seen it on old boats, and certainly bronze propshafts where there was plenty of iron.
Anyway, a far bigger problem is getting the old ones out. The folkboat is quite lightly built and you'll have to be careful not to damage keelson and floor timbers.
Mine were in with what looked like epoxy tar, I replaced some floors "over" the existing bolts but the one I drove out was a nightmare.
I see some people cut them with a "sawzall" or similar between the timber and keel, then the keel can be dragged aside for bolt removal, but maybe you're not set up to be able to do this.
Good luck,
Ruaridh.

[Noah]

I posted this on your other thread, but it is probably of some use here:

I pulled the keelbolts on my Folkboat with an unusual technique that worked very well:

Mine were in pockets on the side of the keel. These pockets had been filled with cement that took forever to get out. Not fun. I found that I could just get a sawzall metal blade into the pocket, so I cut off the nuts in the pockets.

Next I got a big thick piece of angle iron, and cut it so that it could rest on one floor, go over the next, and the end was in the middle of the bay between the floors. I notched the angle iron so that it could slip over the bolt, but still catch the nut on the keel bolt.

I cut away some of the top of the floor timber so that part of the keel bolt was exposed, and slipped the angle iron onto the bolt. As I said before, the back of the angle iron rested on the floor behind, and it stuck out in front of the floor another 8" or so.

I used a bottle jack on the front of the angle iron and pulled the old bolts up and out. It was pretty easy to do, but I found that each bolt needed time before it would come loose. Basically I would pump up the jack so there was a fair amount of pressure on the whole thing, climb down, whack the ballast keel a couple of times and here a big bang. Usually after that I could pull the bolts out by hand.

Using this technique you do screw up the floors some, and you could either cut the top off them and put a new piece in place, or replace the whole thing. Mine needed replacing anyway. Iron and White Oak don't like each other...

Good luck, and if you need clarification I can try to explain things better.

Noah

[Dan McCosh]

Sounds like you have an Abbott folkboat, built in Sarnia, Ont. The did lots of modifications to the original design, including extending the cabin, installing inboard engines, and even making the lapstrake hull in fiberglass. Might check with them for advice.

[amidships]

Thanks for your input everyone. My keelbolts are indeed galvanised, they are actually 'studs' with a nut on each end. The lower nuts are accessed via 'pockets' in the ballst keel (cast iron) and the void is filled with resin/sawdust mixture.

See Pics:

http://www.acountrylife.com/misc/kb0.jpg http://www.acountrylife.com/misc/kb1.jpg http://www.acountrylife.com/misc/kb2.jpg

This is the first bolt (stem end) and looks pretty good for 30 odd years. However, this end is protected, I wonder what the section that goes through the keelson looks like....?

My Folkboat is indeed an 'Abbott' (she is the very last one that came from their yard)from Sarnia and Bill Abbott very kindly responded to my email, answering these questions.
Kind regards
Amidships

[ 09-28-2005, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: amidships ]

[imported_Jimmy]

That one looks fine, but I don't believe that is where they fail. I think it is often in the middle near the ballast/deadwood interface. They can corrode down to a hourglass shape. Even if they all look that good I would pull one anyway. If it is OK you can just put it back. If it isn't OK, you might be able to get one the right size at a hardware store. There are several techniques using a hydraulic jack or two and a metal bar that you can use to pull them up. With the pockets in the keel that is what you would probably want to do.

[ 09-28-2005, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Jimmy ]

[amidships]

Originally posted by Jimmy:
That one looks fine, but I don't believe that is where they fail. I think it is often in the middle near the ballast/deadwood interface. They can corrode down to a hourglass shape. Even if they all look that good I would pull one anyway. If it is OK you can just put it back. If it isn't OK, you might be able to get one the right size at a hardware store. There are several techniques using a hydraulic jack or two and a metal bar that you can use to pull them up. With the pockets in the keel that is what you would probably want to do.Hi Jimmy,
they are all coming out (and being replaced) as the keel needs to be dropped for keelson repairs/replacement.....am I in for a good time or what!!!

Regards
Amidships

[imported_Jimmy]

sounds like fun. How thick and long are those bolts. Please post some photos when you get them out.

[amidships]

Originally posted by Jimmy:
sounds like fun. How thick and long are those bolts. Please post some photos when you get them out.Well, I guess they are either 1/2 inch or 9/16 and the longest must be about 24 inches!! Sure, photos galore - in fact i'll be puttinga little webpage together covering the whole boats restoration, not to take anything away from here, just to cut down the 'My Folkboat' chatter!!

Kind Regards
Amidships

[OEX]

Go with SB or Aquamet SS. I would not put steel in her---seen too many looking bad--SB will steel electrons and material from the keel, but so what, plenty there. SS of very high quality is best, not 18-8 due to crevice pitting, but at least 316. I would get used engine shafting and have it cut and threaded to what you need. Cheap salvage prices for shafts, if they are bent that no biggy to you as you have a short run and can avoid the bent section anyway.

Again---would not due steel unless you find wrought iron.

cheers,

[Bob Cleek]

Friend, I've just read the above posts and I am afraid this is another "blind leading the blind" thread. Sorry guys, but if you don't know what you are talking about, STFU!

If you have a cast iron keel, you MUST use iron keel bolts. No bout a doubt it! Galvanized, if you wish, although the real issue is the iron. DO NOT MIX METALS at opposite ends of the galvanic scale, particularly when the mass of the metal is significantly disparate.

Check the FAQ threads in here. You will find what you need to know. DO NOT use silicon bronze bolts, or stainless steel, with an iron keel. (Stainless is no good in any event, because it is prone to anaerobic crevice corrosion.) Under no circumstances. Period.

[ 10-01-2005, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[mmd]

Gee, Bob, don't mince your words so; tell 'em what you really think! :D

(Actually, I agree with him but I probably couldn't muster the forthrightness of his presentation. Crack the whip of righteous indignation, Bob! Make 'em do their homework! I'm with ya! :D ;) )

[Puka]

I have a mild steel keel (with lead bulb). Do I use mild steel bolts or hi-carbon? The previous iron (of some variety) bolts (16)lasted pretty well for 20yrs. (bar 2)

[Dave Fleming]

Get the back issue of our host's sister pubication, Professional Boatbuilding.

#54, Aug/Sept, 1998.

Very detailed explaination of SS and the various ways it can deteriorate.

[Adamant]

SB with lead, wrough iron with steel. Hunt it down,it's out there for a price.