seperated garboards

[R.J]

i would like to know if anyone has ever encountered this. It seems my boat has settled after being moved by a crane. it was sitting on a metal cradle when lifted and the strapes went on the outside of the cradle. now the problem.
the boat settled 3 to 4 inches below the backbone,in the center of the boat. the garboard plank on both sides of the keel has seperated and dropped. both bow and stern still seems tight. the boat is a motor sailor and is 34 feet 10 foot beam. it is oak planked and been out of the water for seven years. i would like to know how people have fixed this and the problems they have found.
all of the other planks are still very tight. :confused:

[Popeye]

holy sh#t. not sure exactly, need more details, but i got a mental image, and it is not good, not good.

are you saying the entire hull has...

[nedL]

Sounds like you need to start by pulling the garboards to see what happened, doesn't sound to good.
Ed H. may be coming along to share some insight with you on separating garboards. (Check out some of his "Status check" posts.)
(Trying to break the possible news gently.)

[ 09-23-2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[Bob Cleek]

Obviously, your midship floors, or the floor to frame fastenings have let go. The keel and floors went south, while the frames and planking stayed put, or, perhaps vice versa, if the straps pulled the hull up. (Not likely, as per your description.) This may be the result of natural deterioration or improper rigging of the crane. Before you go pulling the boat apart, call your insurer and have their surveyor look at it "as is where is" to preserve the "evidence." If it was the crane operator's fault, you may have some recourse. If it is simply deterioration, it's on you. The repair, new floors, will likely be extensive and expensive.

[R.J]

if you can picture your keel secure to your cradle and the rest of your boat settleing down around it. the floor timbers in the center are the most effected, they drop 3 to 4 inches. you can look at the outside of the hull and see the plank bowed down below the keel. i was told that I should get the boat out of the cradle and up on to stands. this way the hull will be sitting right and the weight will be back on the hull evenly and not sitting on the keel. then use a hydraulic jack to gently puch the hull back togather and re-fasten the garboard to the backbone. plus of course re-caulking and all that.
and this was not the fault of the crane, most likely the boat was not sitting propley to begian with..hence my own fault. has anyone re-caulted the garboard plank like this before?

[reddog]

Rick;
I would take Bob's advice on this.First step is to have your insurer document the damage.Next is to realize this is more extensive than just propping her up and fastening the garboards back to the keel.You will have to determine the extent of the damage and formulate a plan for repair.From the sounds of things you will be into removing the garboards and replacing and refastening some floors.Of course,depending upon the boats age,construction and maintenance this could be like "Pandora's Box".
What design is the boat and where was she built?Where in Dartmouth is she located?Any pictures?
Good luck with this;
Earl

[Ed Harrow]

Well as I live and breath, it's Bob Cleek!!! Geeze just yesterday I did some goggling on you and was planning to send you an email...

RJ - a picture would sure be nice... But, between your two posts, it sounds to me that the hull is dropping down over the keel. You said the boat was lifted by picking up the cradle (I think). Did you see it done? Was the whole kit and kabbudle (sp?) dropped? Was the hull supported properly while being lifted. Were the straps in contact with the topsides, squeezing them together, not to mention down? Sounds to me like the keel has been stuffed up into the hull, and it doesn't sound good. This isn't likely to be "fixed" by jacking the boat up and refastening the garboards.

Listen to Bob, and appreciate the fact that this guy, whom we've not seen hereabouts for nigh on two years, took pity and posted on your thread. Get a proper surveyor to have a look. Take pictures.

[ 09-23-2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Ed Harrow ]

[R.J]

for some reason I can't seem to post any pictures.
I have two that clearly shows the problem. I feel I should go ahead with the repairs because the hull is still tight and rot free. is there a guide to how much caulking should between the garboard and the backbone?
as for where the hull now sits. It is located in Burnside Ind Park. as I have stated before.this was not the fault of the crane. I belive the boat was sitting inproperly.

[Paul Denison]

Most would pay good money for the advice given by some here. Maybe if they charged you big bucks you might pay attention.

[Frank Wentzel]

R. J.

Your description indicates you have a very severe structural failure. It will not be cured or even mitigated by pushing things back into place and caulking the seams. Take off your rose-colored glasses and reread the above posts. I don't mean to be cruel but you need to realize you have a lot of work ahead of you. It may not even be economically feasible to save the boat.

/// Frank ///

[R.I.Singer30]

Picture posting helps.Here is Donn's expanation.You've got to start an acount at imagestation to store your photos.good luck


Originally posted by Donn:
http://www.imagestation.com

Go there, open an account (free)

Decide whether you want to bring the pics into an album, or just into your storage bin.

Follow ImageStation's instructions for uploading the pics.

After the pics are uploaded, click on one of the thumbnails to pop-up the full sized pic.

Right click on the full sized pic, and select "properties"

In the middle of the properties box is the pic's URL.

MAKE SURE THE URL DOESN'T END WITH ".orig.jpg"
If it does, don't highlight that part.

Highlight the URL with your mouse (left key-drag)

On your keyboard, hit CTRL-C

Start a post on the WB forum.

Under the text entry screen, are 2 columns of buttons.

Click the "Image" button.

A little image box comes up with http:// already highlighted.

DON'T SELECT THE IMAGE BOX WITH YOUR CURSOR, OR YOU'LL END UP WITH 2 HTTP://'s

On your keyboard, hit CTRL-V..then press enter.

Preview the pic with the "Preview" button.

Post it!It's a little cumbersome if you have dial-up service like I do but it's wprth the effort to get everyone on the same page so to speak.

[Harry Miller]

Find Mike Mason - mmd here on the WBF. He's just down the road in Bridgewater. (He may not thank me for this smile.gif )

[Ed Harrow]

Pictures of RJ's boat project.

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/RJ_interior.jpg

I am not familiar with this construction, and of course no matter what, the picture could always be better, LOL, but it looks to me like major fastener failure...

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/RJ_exterior.jpg

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/RJ_-_boat.jpg

Some comments? I hope he'll be reading them.

[ 09-25-2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Ed Harrow ]

[reddog]

Ed,I hope you haven't traded boats.Seariously now this boat appears to have major problems.From the picture there seems to be no rabbet backing up the garboard.Not sure how this was all fastened together and even if it were I would question the integrity of the construction.
Just my opinion from a couple of pics and written description,but it looks to be bonfire material.Sorry.
Earl

[Ed Harrow]

Earl, I'm just trying to help a fellow traveler - I've NOT taken on another tired, old vessel. ;) I've not, I've not, I've not!!! Have I made myself perfectly clear. As Mr Cleek would say, "A fella's got to know his limitations." and I find myself bumping up against them daily.

[Bob Cleek]

Hi, Ed! Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I've just been super busy and only now finding time to check out the forum. Besides, it seems the "second generation" in here have things well in hand! LOL

This one is a lot like those "women seeking men" personals on Yahoo. Come on, guys, admit it... you've all checked them out. The ad says, "Charming, attractive, athletic blonde bombshell seeking a guy just like you." But... when you double-click on the picture icon... eeeewwww!!! Another GAGGER! LOL I know somebody loves this boat, but I wouldn't sail it with your tiller, if you know what I mean.

I couldn't really see to understand the problem from the pics, but generally, the comment "I'm not familiar with this sort of construction" was an understatement. Surely could be generalized fastener failure, although I've seen boats just rot to death as well. From the additional descriptions, I'd sure suspect she was dropped straight down on her keel. At least that would be the first working hypothesis. No boat is going to collapse on top of her keel because she doesn't have stands under her. Every boat should be quite happy sitting smack on her keel. The stands are just to keep 'em from tipping over on you. If a boat collapses when she is properly (gently) set on her bottom, the floors are rotten and/or there's just nothing holding the topsides to the keel, but I've never seen that happen. Hogging, sure, yea, but not just falling apart on herself. In the water, the weight is distributed differently and there are greater stresses on the frame when hauled, but not THAT much. I expect she'd be leaky and sunk from weak floors and garboards long before she was so far gone she wouldn't stand up on her own feet ashore.

I really hate to say it, but with fall in the air and all, I'd take the old chainsaw to her before the rains set in so she could at least keep somebody warm this winter. She doesn't look at all like she would be remotely worth the amount of work required to repair the damage described.

[ 09-25-2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[Popeye]

the weight will be back on the hull evenly and not sitting on the keel. then use a hydraulic jack to gently puch the hull back togather and re-fasten the garboard

the earth itself is a triaxial oblate spheroid and has sagged over time. Every structure deflects under load since there are no infinitely stiff materials available to us. The point of failure is a bother.

------------------

" Never experiment at suppertime"

--- Brother-in-law