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John C. Mannone
01-31-2004, 12:58 AM
Hello everybody. Been enjoying Charlotte, NC since Dec 1. This is the first chance I had to visit this site.

Since you are all quite a bright bunch, you might help me settle a question of when such a vessel (described below) could have been built; that is, a century "no earlier than..."

Though the story is fiction, the technology is not.
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Construction of the “Raft” with Sail

-Twenty tall trees, dried and well-seasoned alder, popular, and fir
-Skillfully smoothed and made straight
-Bored [with augers] all the pieces and fitted them together
-Hammered them together with pegs and morticings*
- Marked out the curve of the hull of a freight-ship, broad beamed, wide as a man
-Set up the deck-beams, bolted them to the close-set ribs, and labored on; and finished the “raft” with long gunwales
-Set a mast and a yard-arm on the raft; made a steering-oar
-Fenced in the whole from stem to stern with willow withes and strewed much brush (to protect against the waves)
-Made a cloth sail, and he fashioned that too with skill
-Secured the raft braces, halyards, and sheets
-Launched with levers

(adapted from "The Odyssey" , Book V, by Homer)

Could this description be consistent with 13th century BC ancient Greek construction technology or simply reflect the 8th century BC craftsmanship?

*mor·tise or mor·tice n
1. a hole or slot cut into a piece of wood, stone, or other material, for a projecting part (tenon) to be inserted into it, in order to form a tight joint
2. a hole cut in a printing plate to receive type or another plate

(Encarta® World English Dictionary © 1999 Microsoft Corporation)

Thanks for your help,
John

Lucky Luke
01-31-2004, 04:51 AM
:rolleyes: This is just a raft,, a "flat" raft..Ask Thor Heyderhal about them ;)
This "mortice" seems to be for joinng the lugs together, that's all...
But that nothing to do with the ancient greek construction, I'm afraid...

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-31-2004, 05:38 AM
Frankly, Homer's description of what Odysseus built is as clear as mud. Alder and poplar are not what anyone would choose as a boatbuilding material, though fir is possible. Willow withies would be quite useless. Our poet is good at battles, but as a guide to historical wooden boat building he is no Howard Chappelle!

Eric Sea Frog
01-31-2004, 08:21 AM
Some interesting information on an ancient mortising technique (http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/engargo.html)

Thad
01-31-2004, 08:54 AM
The carpentry tools to bore and mortice might well have been available in stone 20,000 BC, certainly rafts were used in some form that early. Bronze was being cast 3500BC. This site http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/06/0620_020625_metalfactory.html speaks of a 2700BC foundry in Jordan with chisels among other found products. Ships were traveling up the rivers of western Europe by 2500BC, this is known by the spread of "pubs" -- "beakers" pottery mugs and beer making = "pubs" -- along the rivers of Europe (sorry, but fun).

paladin
01-31-2004, 08:57 AM
I think the "willow withes" may mean a woven fence much like lifeline stanchions with a woven net to keep things on board or keep waves from coming aboard....

John C. Mannone
01-31-2004, 11:17 PM
Thank you all very much for the helpful information

John

If you think of anything else, you may e-mail me either in TN (jcmannone@earthlink.net) or in NC (JCMannone@duke-energy.com)