Easy question: What is "to broach"?

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Easy as it is, I'm not sure what it is. Seems it is to be avoided at all costs. Likely it has already happened to me (note my moniker above) but I didn't know it had a name! Is it when a wave knocks you over sideways?

[Jagermeister]

Broaching is when you are on a run (typically with a spinnaker) and you round up onto a beam reach, and heel over (because you're carrying too much sail for a reach). Usually happen when a spinnaker starts oscillating from side to side because its guyed too far out. If the chute gets far off to one side the lateral force turns the boat away from the chute. This is what "twings" are supposed to help control.

Gotta keep your chute close in and under control when you're on a dead run (IMHO). Generally not a pleasant experience, although it leads to a dismasting only occasionally.

(Edited to clarify)

[ 11-29-2005, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Jagermeister ]

[John B]

What jagermeister said.
I suppose you could add that its when the rudder loses traction through heeling/cavitation. I sailed on a Farr 1220 which we broached on the wind a few times. Too much heel in a gust, wide stern and the rudder only had its tip in the water so around she goes for an on the wind broach or round up.
We did one in the Lidgard 42 we raced in the last coastal race. That was broad reaching with the kite. Being a cruising boat it was no drama at all. We just leaned to about 30 degrees, eased sheets and went on our way. Busted the pole in half in a nasty gust shortly after that one though. :rolleyes:
The 32 ft boat we winter race on is a heavy helm boat and she's prone to a nasty broach. we usually do 2 or 5 of them per season. A good rapport between helmsman and sheet hands becomes a priority when she starts digging her nose in.lol.

[ 11-29-2005, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[ssor]

You can also broach a power boat. Just run down wind a bit too fast, come off a wave, bury the bow and have the next wave lift the stern to one side. Then you find yourself broadside to the seas and without much way.

[John B]

True. surf boats do it on a wave when the steering oar gets in the white water and lose grip too.
That coastal race I was talking about. here's the body language of a boat that wants to broach ( just after the start).
first he demonstrates that he's of the broaching type
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p0b1b8b53af9852054ca6c542faeb368f/f1bc597e.jpg
so we're watching him and staying clear
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p12a39d999942f49e175ae41ed65de1a7/f1bc597f.jpg
and then he does it
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid192/p4f857eb9323a971597e827b3f86bf258/f1bc5940.jpg
from north head
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid195/p0d6a78021478e03b7ea02e5c0cbf730d/f13c1bf4.jpg
another one got knocked flat right after that and they broke the pole. The kite skied and the boat stayed laid down being dragged by the spinnaker. She was down on her beam ends for 3 to 5 minutes ( differing accounts) before they could get something released. They must have had the sheet cleated I reckon.no no no don't ever do that!

[ 12-01-2005, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Oh sure... an easy one. That's when you buy something really expensive for the boat, your wife finds out....and you end up at a jewelry store before you know it. ;)

to necklace..
to earring...

same things

[ 11-29-2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[Rick Clark]

Peter Malcolm Jardine (Yes some good humor) smile.gif
.

posted 11-29-2005 09:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh sure... an easy one. That's when you buy something really expensive for the boat, your wife finds out....and you end up at a jewelry store before you know it.

to necklace..
to earring...

same things

[Wild Wassa]

In my neck of the woods it is customary for Gentlemen to dress to Port, in only a few knots.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid195/pe08733c7e864709b8fab2aa448519a75/f140da10.jpg

When we are reaching under spinnaker and I'm trying to find it hidden behind the main and an ear pops out and the pole is an inch from the forstay and the ear is starting to curl then the other ear curls while I'm correcting and the pole is straining and getting closer to snapping if it hits the wire, your muscles are burning and the brace is between your legs and your eyes are popping from the strain and you can't cleat off because you know you will broach ... then the spinnaker starts oscillating wildly and playing hide and seek again and the mark is approaching quickly and some joker too far out calls "buoy room," and the wind doesn't have a clue what it wants to do ... I'm most relieved when the spinnaker comes down. Then after the rounding, the wind about faces and then the spinnaker goes straight back up again and it all starts again. Even in a little boat spinnaker runs can be exciting when you are a few more points further off than wise.

Warren.

[ 11-30-2005, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[sdowney717]

http://www.sailingusa.info/design_winds.htm

interesting site talks about sailboat design and stability, high seas etc...

[shamus]

To broach is often to Pre-Capsize. :D

Any drogue/sea anchor users among us?

[Sea Frog]

Broaching in a trough in conditions took more than a windjammer to Davy Jone's locker.

[Ian McColgin]

Broaching has a number of elements.

To take water first, affecting anything floating whether powered or not, the broach is a wave induced change of direction from orientation more or less in the waves direction to an orientation with the wave abeam.

No matter where an object longer than it's wide may be on the face of the wave, the down-wave end (usually the bow but some of us have broached backwards trying to claw out with woo little power - a thrill all its own) will travel in the wave's direction more slowly than the up-wave end. Let's make it that we're running with the wave: The forces are any one of or combination of:

Buoyancy at the bow provides increased water resistance, retarding forward motion at the bow and thus exerting a turning strain;

The stern is on a steeper part of the wave and essentially falling;

If the wave top is broken, that moving water will carry the stern downhill first;

The rudder may cavitate, loosing steering lift due to aeration;

In rapidly moving broken water, the rudder may not have any relative forward motion from which to gain hydrodynamic lift for steering.

If the turning strains of a broach can be controlled and the bow gotten up, you can surf. One problem with surfing a sailboat is that you can easily get going to fast, reverse the sails, and loose control. The grand art of running off in a following sea is to get some lift from each passing wave without losing control. But this is not a seamanship section.

Rudder cavitation, by the way, if often related to hull shape. A plump sterned pinched bowed hard bilged modern frozensnot boat will lift her rudder right out of the water when heeled. In this condition, she will round up into the wind with gusto. If there's anything resembling a wave, it will be a powerful broach.

Powerboats with their relatively small rudders will suck air under the stern through the propeller(s) and then simply be streaming what amounts to vapor at the rudder(s).

Sailboats have an additional factor that can cause something like a broach even on flat water and can accelerate a broach into a cartwheel in broken water - the self-excitation of the sail. As you get further off the wind, the sail moves from aerodynamic lift to simple push. But push is not after all that simple and you'll get some aerodynamic lift not only over the luff, but over the leech as well. This is most clearly visible if you have the spinnaker up and get it trimmed to create the dreaded spinnaker wobble. These forces can yank you up into the wind and as you roll to leeward the rudder may cavitate, giving the sail more turning force and over you go.

Alternatively, the forces of sail self-excitation (ever so solo erotic) can yank a boat over to weather faster than the helm can react so if you were pulling against some weather helm all of a sudden you're helping the boat charge off the wrong way. This is usually followed by a catastrophic flying gybe, broken gear, loud oaths, and futile gesticulations.

Every boat has different characteristics and habits and calls for differing down sea and down wind strategies.

G'luck

[Tristan]

I've broached a few times in motorboats, scary, as once they slew sideways they can be rolled over by a breaking wave. My teenage son and I were bringing our Diablo (15' outboard) into Wiggins Pass this Fall and he got to experience the beginnings of a broach. I was impressed that he picked up on the feeling immediately. In a powerboat I've always slowed down and let the waves roll under and past me. If you've got a fast enough boat I guess you can outrun them. Once heard a wonderful story of a pompano fisherman, 60 years ago, running parallel to the beach in a slow moving net boat about 20' long. He didn't broach, but rather got rolled over, 360 degrees roll, wound up a bit shaken and wet,with the boat half full of water, still running slow ahead. :D

[ 11-30-2005, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Tristan ]

[Ian McColgin]

Powerboat handling off steep waves can get really entertaining.

For running a breaking inlet it is very nice to have enough power that you can go all the way on the back of a wave. This takes some care as you don't want to out run the wave but you also don't want to squat so low in the trough that your own wake causes the wave behind to break and catch you.

Running off for a longer distance can get really tiring unless you can pick a course where you can diagonal along bow near the trough and stern not so high up that she's into a broach. It all depends on the length, steepness, and speed of the waves.

[Old Bingey]

They call it "root" around the north Gulf. You know, like a hog does.

[willmarsh3]

In heavy winds when I try to run with the ketch she tends to broach if I have the mizzen up. I don't have a spinnaker. She definitely likes to beat with the mizzen up. Once I drop it - no problem.
I really found this out when racing in weather sort of like what John B shows. The boat suddenly turned up into the wind near a day marker. I feared I was going to hit it. BTW one of my buddies broke their mast.
After the race, I was told that the rudder cavitates just before the broach. The remedy is to move the rudder back and forth rapidly to disipate the cavitation bubbles.

Will.

[Gary Bergman]

Seems as tho' I might 'ave read this wrong, but I thought you asked what it was 'to broach', not how. Broaching is rounding up, and with still tooo much power, you heel far enough that the keel leaves the water, losing the whole hydrofoil bunch of bananas...

[Dave Hadfield]

The first immediate result of a broach is to produce very bad language on the part of the skipper.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Dave Hadfield:
The first immediate result of a broach is to produce very bad language on the part of the skipper.Then everyone goes below to change shorts? ;) :D

[John B]

Its usually the crew with the accusational language on the boats I sail on. "the course is over there.........." :D
That last boat we were on racing didn't cavitate so much as overwhelm. We added servo assist in the form of a extra arm or two a few times. It has a steering issue.

The interesting thing about the modern boats is that the return to more symetrical waterlines and the accurate placement of keels makes for some very well balanced boats. eg: It amazes me that they sail those AC boats with rudders that are only a foot through the chord.
In the racers, particularly the ocean racers now you'll see that they often have canard foils of some sort. This is so the keel / clr can be well back in the boat for running and reaching without fear of broaching . Then they drop a foil down forward of the keel to shift the clr forward again for on the wind.

[Hwyl]

Nobody is mentioning "death rolling" the horrible cousin of the broach.

It's happened to me too many times (in a Laser it's sometimes fun.

let's see, you start a broach, you correct it, the rudder gets too much traction and (depending on the boat) over you go to windward, in a Laser the boat falls on top of you. In a big boat with a preventer, the wind gets on the wrong side of the sail and holds her down with the boom pointing in the air, with the boat sailing backwards.

It happened on the old "Mistress Quickly" in the Indian ocean. Water was pouring down the companionway, and "Motor Mouth" Don Tracey (anyone know him? he told me the story) swam forward to the bow(she must have been about 73') (that's where we used to tie the preventer in those days) and cut the preventer. Ole Mistress stood up, shook herself like a dog and bombed off again, the pumps were busy for a while.

Heady stuff. I always run my preventers back to the cockpit now, of course then there's always the danger of exploding blocks.

[shamus]

A light hearted approach to the broach.

There is a photographer here named Richard Bennett who specialises in Sydney-Hobart race photographs, (usually taken from fixed wing aircraft at about the height of the spreaders)and has published books with some spectacular photographs including the odd broach. One such photo shows a boat lying flat on one side and a couple of minutes later broached again lying right down flat in the opposite direction after an unexpected jibe. At this point one of the crew is alleged to have said "Don't start the engine, I'm standing on the propellor"

[Leon m]

Originally posted by Ian McColgin:
Alternatively, the forces of sail self-excitation (ever so solo erotic) can yank a boat over to weather faster than the helm can react so if you were pulling against some weather helm all of a sudden you're helping the boat charge off the wrong way. This is usually followed by a catastrophic flying gybe, broken gear, loud oaths, and futile gesticulations.

.

Been there ,done that, no thanks. :eek: :eek:

[AlanL]

Every boat has different characteristics and habits and calls for differing down sea and down wind strategies. Talking a bloke who owns one of the old bridge deckers in Westpark Marina. He was saying she always tends to broach to starboard in a running sea. From a pier next to the one he is berthed at I had a look at her bow and could see that the stem twisted up to port. There seems to be less surface area down the port side than starboard, like an aeroplane wing, causing her to pull to starboard.


It all depends on the length, steepness, and speed of the waves Certainly been caught out more than once by that one. Waves never seem to look that big until you're in the middle of them when you're entering a harbour. That's why I like to have a fairly grunty motor. Mostly it will run at half throttle, until I need the hoot to get out of those situations.

Every year people in little boats get drowned at harbour mouths on the west coast because they under estimate the conditions, or over estimate their boats capabilities.

Alan

[ 11-30-2005, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Canoeyawl]

I have broached a small vessel once in heavy surf on a west coast bar and it is not fun, it is terrifying.
A simple explanation may be that the stern is moving faster than the bow and the end result is rounding up on the face of a wave. This can be catastrophic…burying the bow, sheering to one side, filling the boat, loss of the vessel, etc
A great photo series showing a broach in surf under the Golden Gate Bridge can be seen here in high resolution... caution, not for the faint of heart
web page (http://http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sailH/)
http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sailH/images/WAL_5131.JPG

[Old Bingey]

I was on an 85' tug which broached clear around in the Gulf of Mexico. It would have capsized if it hadn't had a belly full of fuel and water and big engines. As it was, the generator engine choked on its own oil. The steering was by a big three phase motor running a hydraulic pump and the boat just rolled in the troughs until we could start the other generator. It was some blind staggering down there in the engine room I tell you but not near as bad as it was back on the stern trying to get in enough towline before the barges ran over us or it got in the wheels. We finally got running again and had to head up on the short line for about 8 hours until it laid down a little bit.