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Venchka
10-21-2004, 05:16 PM
Joe,

Does this qualify?

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/9/4/7/1/2/947127_1.jpg http://newimages.yachtworld.com/9/4/7/1/2/947127_2.jpg


22' catboat (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=947127&slim=quick&)

I'm cruel, eh?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-21-2004, 06:15 PM
Oooh Oooh :eek:

Joey like YUM

$14,500 hmmm in VA hmmmmmmm

But a little ummmmmmmm :rolleyes: spartan in accommodations though. Keep looking smile.gif

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/9/4/7/1/2/947127_3.jpg

something more like (josephine) would be nice ;)

http://www.theyachtjosephine.com/Images_CabinSplit/Cabin01_02_01.jpg

[ 10-21-2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Joe (SoCal)
10-21-2004, 06:29 PM
Mike for $6,000 Ill take her and make her look like Josephine below deck by spring time ;)

imported_Steven Bauer
10-21-2004, 06:52 PM
Hey Joe, on our way home from Bar Harbor last week we saw a beautiful Catboat for sale at Maine Coast Boathouse. Contact Charlie Dhyse...
By Phone at 207-338-0100
By Fax at 207-338-0111
email info@mainecoastboats.com

I'll look around for the pictures.

Steven

imported_Steven Bauer
10-21-2004, 07:01 PM
Got 'em:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid143/p83194e825621b551c9ef761cff2b7d3a/f68e73ac.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid143/p1e400e528bab46b57c5594e6e542dec3/f68e73b3.jpg

See what Charlie has to say about her. If you buy her my finders fee is a daysail on the Hudson. :D

Steven

Joe (SoCal)
10-21-2004, 07:28 PM
NIce Steve, I will give him a call tomorow

Found this one looking tonight YUMMY $15,000
25' Wittholz Gaft rigged catboat
Good Pedigree

I think Dave Flemming used this one last time to tempt me ;)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_display_photo.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1125702&boatname=25%27+Wittholz+Gaft+rigg ed+catboat&photo_name=null&photo=1&url=

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/2/5/7/1125702_1.jpg

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/2/5/7/1125702_6.jpg

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/2/5/7/1125702_7.jpg

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/2/5/7/1125702_8.jpg

[ 10-21-2004, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Joe (SoCal)
10-21-2004, 07:31 PM
Steven that Cat got a CB ??? big keel for a cat, no ?

Joe (SoCal)
10-22-2004, 09:22 AM
Steven just got off the phone with Charlie regarding that Catboat.

It's a 1957 Bud Macintosh Keel Cat

Couple of things have me concerned. At some point it was Glassed over then 3 years ago it needed a refasten below the waterline so the glass was removed BELOW the waterline. It Remains glassed above :(

She is 22'-3" LOA 9'-7" beam

She has an alcohol stove and a porta potty

Then there is the issue of price
They want $25,000 for her :eek: :eek:
And he said they are not negotiable :(
They would have to be very NEGOTIABLE for me to think about a half Glassed wooden boat.

To his credit he guarantees the boat to pass survey with flying colors or they will pay for the survey, I thought that was fair. BUT THE PRICE :eek: :eek:

Makes me think that Wittholz is a deal at $10,000 less

WindHawk
10-22-2004, 09:32 AM
By comparison. A friend just priced a Com-Pac Horizon Cat with a diesel & most of the toys (including trailer), for $44K. Although plastic, it is a nice looking boat.

Joe (SoCal)
10-22-2004, 09:38 AM
Com-Pac Horizon Cat is a very very nice boat even if it is glass. Don't want nor need a $44K boat :eek: :eek: But I would drop my love affair with wood in a heart beat if I could get that Com-Pac Horizon Cat for $15K :D

http://www.com-pacyachts.com/images/com-pachorizoncat.jpg

[ 10-22-2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

JimD
10-22-2004, 12:09 PM
Ahh! More catboats. Just the thing to lift the spirits on a dreary cold day on the tundra.

Venchka
10-22-2004, 01:29 PM
Yo, JimD, I'll trade with you.

It's been on the wrong side of 85F all week. Everyday a new record high for the date.

Bummer!

Oh well, maybe I'll be sailing at Christmas. Wicked grin! :D

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

landlocked sailor
10-23-2004, 02:39 PM
Joe, don't forget used Menger Cats
http://www.mengercat.com/graphics/m19tabernacle.jpg
And Marshall Cats
http://www.marshallcat.com/images/marshall4-4.jpg
Rick

Stiletto
10-23-2004, 06:06 PM
So Joe, do you reckon you'll have one by next summer? It sounds like you are starting to allocate financial resources in that direction. :D

Good luck with the hunt.

JimD
10-23-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Venchka:
Yo, JimD, I'll trade with you.

It's been on the wrong side of 85F all week. Everyday a new record high for the date.

Bummer!

Oh well, maybe I'll be sailing at Christmas. Wicked grin! :D

Wayne

And this has exactly what to do with catboats? :D
In the Swamp. :D

imported_Dutch
10-23-2004, 07:15 PM
heres some class in glass

a 22 foot hereshoff eagle- only $14,500.

ill never own a leaky old wood tub again

http://www.catboats.org/images/husson-131.jpg

imported_Steven Bauer
10-24-2004, 09:53 AM
Joe, the latest Messing About In Boats lists a Cat Boat in the classifieds:

Cat Boat, w/cb, 15'8" long, 6' wide, 4hp Johnson ob w/20" long shaft Cuddy cabin, new tanbark gaff rig sail, aluminum spars, wheel steering, New built on '30's vintage hull, cedar on steam bent oakribs.Vy nice $3,800 cash.
Leon Pothier, Westfield, Ma (413) 562-2216

I'm still looking for that sail on the Hudson. :D

Steven

[ 10-24-2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Steven Bauer ]

Joe (SoCal)
10-24-2004, 10:43 AM
15'8 with a cuddy seems a bit small for weekending. But for the price it sounds wonderful :D

Ideally what I would be looking for is a 24 ft trailerable catboat with CB a head and a galley berth that sleeps min 2. Capable of taking 4 adults and 2 kids out daysailing but also capable of taking me & lucky for a week or more out to block island ;) An inboard atomic 4 would be great but an OB can work too.

All this for no more than $10K I'm willing to do a ton of cosmetic work. Minor repairs paint and varnish. So she doesn't have to be Bristol, but I do not want a rebuild job. I'm looking to get out and sail. Oh and of course I would prefer a wooden hull and spars smile.gif but that goes without saying

Larry P.
10-24-2004, 01:01 PM
Joe here a nice looking cat on ebay

Catboat (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63729&item=2494393560&rd=1)
http//i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/a1/09/69_12_s.JPG

[ 10-24-2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Larry P. ]

JimD
10-24-2004, 01:48 PM
A problem with trailering catboats is the beam. Any catboat over about 17 feet long is likely to be wider than 8 feet. You'd most likely need a wide load permit to tow it anywhere but hopefully that would be just a little irritating red tape.

imported_Steven Bauer
10-24-2004, 02:03 PM
Joe, have you ever seen a 24' catboat? It would be huge! And there would be no way to trailer it with a regular vehicle. When we go out on my friend Dave's Americat (20' x 9') we have my 5 and his 3 and we can all sit in the cockpit comfortably, or all go below comfortably. You would definitely need a boat hauler to move a 24 footer. You might be surprised at how big that 16' boat is. Chris went up and down the Maine coast for a month in his 18' catboat. With his wife and daughter part of the time. I think you need to get aboard some catboats to get a real feel for them. I'm sure my friend Dave would take you out, though it's getting a bit late for this year.

Steven

yorgie
10-24-2004, 02:35 PM
Don't take this badly Joe,but to me a catboat looks like a wooden shoe with a sail.If cat boats require long bowsprits to set a forestay why wouldn't one want to hang a foresail off it.You achieve better windward ability and you also have an opportunity to reduce the size of the main sail.This would make jibes much less frightening and the boom less booming.You wouldn't need as much beam and would have a lighter and more trailerable boat.You could still call it a modified catboat,maybe Catboat on the Hudson. smile.gif

JimD
10-24-2004, 04:00 PM
Bow sprits on catboat are rather odd. The whole point of those very heavy, solid masts is that there's nothing to stay them to so they have to be made strong. Like yorgie says once you start adding appendages like bowsprits why not just go to a sloop?

Joe (SoCal)
10-24-2004, 08:43 PM
OK Steven an 18 to 22ft how's that? I do not expect to be trailering her very often anyway. A seasonal haul out might be nice if she had a tabernacle, what's every ones opinion on those?

The Menger cats seem perfect with one the 19 is just about perfect but I will say my heart longs for the 23 , but not for $63,500 :eek: :eek: :eek:

Oh and yorgie, ya just don't know redface.gif Ya gotta love a catboat :D

Also as to weather helm I hear if you modulate the CB you can control the WH significantly.

[ 10-24-2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

John Bell
10-24-2004, 09:46 PM
I've been aboard (but yet to sail :( ) several Compac Sun Cats. They are a lot of boat in 17'. The tabernacled mast and gallows make trailering look very doable. They've got a spacious cockpit that would be a terrific as a daysailor. As a weekender the cuddy would be comfortable if cozy for two, but luxurious for someone from backpacker or open boater POV. And to top it all off, they are very pretty little boats.

New, they are around $17K on a trailer. :(

Jonathan Kabak
10-24-2004, 10:32 PM
Joe-

What you ought to do is skoot on up to Beacon and procure the "I'll call it mini-me" Hudson River Sloop Woody Guthrie from the nice folks at the beacon sloop club. Seeing as that is a tried and true design for your neck of the river, you'd probably be very happy with her.

My two cents

Jonathan

Joe (SoCal)
10-25-2004, 08:34 AM
Well Oyster MIke, I think like trying to describe the ideal woman ya just know her when ya see her. But their are strong reasons for my choice. As with all choices there are compromises. I would have to say the reasons are as follows:

#1 reason for choosing the catboat design is I just love the lines. I like that you can get a lot of boat in the 18-20ft range usually boats that small make a diminutive vessel, catboats are really quite large for their length. Big enough to be a real pocket cruiser for a couple, a great weekender for the family, and a very friendly daysailer for eight people. Yet she's still small enough to be easily trailered and can be stored in my barn.

#2 History: Catboats come from honest workboat stock, they are beamy way aft. This means there's plenty of reserve buoyancy so you can really utilize the large cockpit without throwing her off, basicly a very stable boat. And her sail area, which is very generous, is workboat style too, so she'll ghost along in the lightest of airs. Sure, you'll have to reef when the wind starts to freshen, but you'll never have to buy or bother with light air sails. The large gaff rig is simple and easy for a novice like me and can be easly single handed.


Cat boats are work boats in origin, and a typical 19th century crew consisted of one man and a boy. They had to handle the catboat while making a hard and dangerous living. Lines, traps and nets had to be pulled in all kinds of conditions while the cat took care of herself . Different wind and wave conditions will vary the way the Cat heaves to, so try practicing in various conditions beforehand.

Simply let go of the tiller and mainsheet while going to windward. Take care that the mainsheet doesn't tangle on a cleat or the tiller. The Cat will stop and lie sideways to the wind. Raise the centerboard and slowly haul in the mainsheet until the sail partly fills and she begins to point up. She is now in "park", moving very slowly forward and to the leeward, constantly adjusting herself to maintain this attitude. You can catch a fish, oil some teak, or go below to fix your lunch

In stronger wind conditions you may want to try lashing the tiller to leeward and trimming the mainsheet in a little further. She should then "scallop" up to windward, fall off and do it again and again. Trying out these tricks beforehand will help make it easy when you have to heave-to while reefing in rough conditions. #3 Thee cabin is light and airy with classic bronze cat's eye ports. There is plenty of storage and a nice homey feeling, A place to get out of foul weather which is what we have up in the NE. Combine this with a HUCE cockpit and you have a ton of overnight possibilities. Basickly to me a catboat is comfortable.

But what does all this matter if a boat doesn't stir something inside you and give that indefinable feeling of a thing that's alive--a vessel you can sail with pride?Strong winds, tides, and treacherous shoals demanded a design which would stand up to these conditions, yet sail fast and provide enough room to carry a large payload.

Now what do you all think of these

Dream

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/2/5/7/1125702_1_thumb.jpg

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1125702&units=Feet&currency=USD& access (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1125702&units=Feet&currency=USD&a ccess)

Practical

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/2/9/3/5/1293519_1.jpg

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1293519&units=Feet&currency=USD& access (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1293519&units=Feet&currency=USD&a ccess)

[ 10-25-2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Joe (SoCal)
10-25-2004, 09:58 AM
Thanks MIke.
The trailering issue is not as important, although it would be a big benefit for winter storage and working on the boat in the off season. I have a mooring location at the yacht club so during the season she will be moored. The stability of the beamy design plays greatly in the comfort of both my non-sailing bride and daughter. The roomy cockpit tend to keep people aft. But an 18ft is looking more and more of a good idea. My only reason for choosing the larger cat is, its a MAJOR purchase and I do not want to be settling for things. Already I long for a coal stove for warmth in autumn sailing. With a bigger Cat I will never say, ya know if the 18 was just a bit bigger I could do this or that, does that make sense?

JimD
10-25-2004, 10:26 AM
Catboat stability is a double edged sword. They have great initial stability but if that is ever overcome by the right combination of wind and wave there's trouble. The wide, shallow hull form will not recover well from a knockdown and not at all from a capsize as they will be almost as stable upside down as right side up. That is one reason they fail a crucial test of seaworthiness and are not considered blue water boats.

Venchka
10-25-2004, 10:37 AM
Joe,

On the trailer requirement-remember this: 8'-6" maximum beam. That means rail to rail or whatever is protruding beyond the planking. After 8'-6" you'll need a permit to get on the road. Could be less on back roads in Yankee land.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-25-2004, 11:29 AM
JimD I'm fully aware of the stability issue with the Catboat design. One of the reason I decided on the Catboat over lets say the Alegra 24 is because I came to the practical realization I will never be doing any real blue water cruising :( . The most usable kind of sailing I would do is day sailing locally with family and friends, and the possible week long solo voyage to Block Island or the Vineyard. Gunkholing around the sound or up and down the Hudson, never far from shore. I do have wanderlust in my soul but my family and work grounds be pretty solid. I do think If I had a 22ft catboat moored just down at the Yacht club I would probably be on it A LOT. Cell phone, a nice galley and head and I can see it being my spring / summer office smile.gif Sort of a $10,000 vacation home. You guys have no idea how much I enjoy just spending time on a boat not even sailing just sitting on the water. The thought of sleeping aboard waking with the morning mist, hot cup of coffee casting of lines and setting sail aww man I get shivers just thinking of it :D Ahhhh wanderlust is a powerful force :D

AND I DON'T HAVE to have it be trailerable but it would be nice :D

Larry P.
10-25-2004, 11:51 AM
Joe how much of a project are you willing to take on? I might have a line on an old wooden cat in the 20' range. I'll make a couple of calls. The one ofear thinking of was down on the Patchogue River. As of the gtold me to keep in guy that runs the yard didn't want to part with it but he told me to keep in touch.

This one was a Gil Smith design and needed some work but didn't seem too far gone. I'll talk to the guy some time this week and try to take some pics.

Joe (SoCal)
10-25-2004, 12:07 PM
Larry keep in touch let me know. Like I said I'm confident with cosmetic and minor structural work, but a total refit would worry me and my abilities. But first find out if she is available and the price. Believe it or not I called on that big Witholz cat and the broker is saying that she has been sold. One part disappointment and one part Whew, it gets scary and exciting when you are in the stage of looking :D

JimD
10-25-2004, 12:55 PM
Joe, maybe when I get mine built I'll take her down the west coast, around the horn and up to see you for a visit :D

Alan D. Hyde
10-25-2004, 01:32 PM
JimD's point takes us to an ancient discussion, not yet resolved, on the desiderata of seaworthiness.

The context in which this is most frequently seen, is discussions about the design of Slocum's Spray, a boat which some will say was not seaworthy.

My own mind's not entirely made up; I've heard good points both ways...

Alan

JimD
10-25-2004, 02:41 PM
When I still daydreamed of being a roguish blue water sailer I discounted catboats. Since my only knowledge on the subject is from books I found John Vigor's The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat a good read. Now that there's a reasonable chance I may end up an old man hanging out on Canada's west coast and doing rather casual sailing in as roomy and comfortable boat as I can afford the catboat is starting to look mighty appealing again.

Venchka
10-25-2004, 02:46 PM
You could do a lot worse. Get the Okanagan cold!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

Stiletto
10-25-2004, 03:47 PM
Joe, have you hired a boat of a similar size and taken your family out for a weekend? If not , it may be worth doing to find out whether they like the experience rather than the idea. My family isnt much interested in boating so I tend to use my boat as a means to have my own space, which is fine by me, and my wife reckons it keeps me a bit more mellow than I otherwise might be. smile.gif

The point being, I guess,is that if your family is not as keen as you are your needs may be different.

Venchka
10-25-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Stiletto:

...
The point being, I guess,is that if your family is not as keen as you are your needs may be different.Boy, could I write a book on that topic!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

JimD
10-25-2004, 05:47 PM
Boy, could I write a book on that topic!

Wayne
In the Swamp. Wayne, can I write the preface? :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-25-2004, 05:55 PM
Lets make sure we have our priorities strait, #1 the boat is for ME !!!!! #2 I hope my wife and I know my daughter will enjoy it. But the primary user would be ME !!!! :D :D :D

If I was to even consider my wife's choice on this subject it would be some plastic Clorox bottle forget about a sail or the feeling of being moved by only the wind just a big motor - eeeeeeeeeeek YUCK somthing like this :(

****** WARNING THOSE WITH SENSITIVE STOMACHS LOOK AWAY NOW *****

http://www.bayliner.com/boat_graphics/electronic_brochure/company8134/34894_p_t_640x480.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
10-25-2004, 06:20 PM
MIke that is part of my reasoning for getting a larger (fuller ) boat with a head and a galley. One that will sleep more than just Lucky and myself. If Lisa and Tess wanted to spend time the larger boat would accommodate there less salty nature ;) But again as with my current sailing I KNOW it's me who will spend most of the time aboard. Daysailing with friends or teaching Tess, but more often or not just ME driving down to the mooring on short notice with lucky in tow for an afternoon sail :D

Hwyl
10-25-2004, 06:50 PM
Joe I've been watching this thread and surprised that no one has suggested a Bolger Chebacco. I've never sailed one but I hear they are great boats. They fit your every parameter.

Still trying to figure out how to post pictures gareth

JimD
10-25-2004, 07:21 PM
Chebacco is yawl rigged. Now don't get Joe started on yawl rigs :D

John Bell
10-25-2004, 07:38 PM
Heeding the advice to buy the boat your wife wants is pretty wise if you want it to be something you enjoy together... That's how I wound up with this beauty: ;)

http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/pb27_2.jpg

It's not my dream boat, but there's no tension between the bride and I about owning it. She likes it, and I'm just plain happy to have any boat. In the summer, she takes it out on her own every week, which is a pretty solid endorsement in my book. Besides, it's just the next boat in a long line of "next boats".

Hwyl
10-25-2004, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by JimD:
Chebacco is yawl rigged. Now don't get Joe started on yawl rigs :D At least it's a small mizzen. Mizzens can be fun and useful (where else do you tie an awning).

John that's not really a boat, it's a moveable dock for all your other great boats

Venchka
10-26-2004, 08:52 AM
Joe,

Here is a lead on a Marshall cat in your neighborhood (nearby anyway) that will be on the market in the next 6 months or so. The owner is looking to buy a Flicka as soon as she gets her ducks all lined up.

Cynthia
s/v Myra Lee
Marshall 18 #428
www.myralee.com (http://www.myralee.com)

Good luck!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-26-2004, 11:12 AM
Wayne, Thats PERFECT !!!!
Any idea what $$ she is looking for. Nice job fixing her up :D

I guess Ill just email her.
Good Looking out and yes Nyac area is very close to me .

Venchka
10-26-2004, 12:45 PM
Joe,

You're on your own. I just read about her plans in the Flicka @ Yahoo! group and thought of you. I hope it works out well for both of you.

Now, about my finders fee... :cool:

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-26-2004, 01:10 PM
Thanks Wayne I emailed her lets see what happens. If I get her you get a free trip to Block Island with me & Lucky :D :D

Venchka
10-26-2004, 01:21 PM
WHOA! I'd a settled a lot cheaper than that! Thanks! Deal! Hmmmmmmmmmm...you reckon Elisabeth Grace could make it to/from Block Island? Something to dream about.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

Keith Wilson
10-26-2004, 01:41 PM
Joe, another current manufaturer of catboats is Arey's Pond Boat Yard. (http://www.areyspondboatyard.com/apbyboatbuilding.html) They also have an interesting used boat section on their site, although without pictures - two Marshall Sanderlings for sale, and several wood catboats. I particularly like their 18' daysailer sloop, but it's much smaller than a catboat of equivalent length.

Here's the Arey's Pond 16' Catboat:

http://www.areyspondboatyard.com/images/lynx2.jpg

[ 10-26-2004, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

Chris Coose
10-27-2004, 01:15 PM
Joe,
I haven't looked back to see if anybody linked you to the catboat association For Sale list but here it is.
Catboat association for sale page (http://www.catboats.org/cats134.htm)

Joe (SoCal)
10-27-2004, 03:30 PM
Wayne
In the Swamp. I received a wonderful e-mail from Cynthia. What a nice person smile.gif , even if she does not sell Myra Lee I have found a kindred Catboat friend. She has invited me out sailing on Myra Lee to get to know her. She wished I had emailed her sooner since she is hauling her out. But we will keep in touch and if she decides to sell her she will let me know. Anyway we are going sailing.

Thanks

Meerkat
10-27-2004, 04:08 PM
Get a Flicka! ANYTHING but a catboat!

Find out what an Artic Tern (Devlin) is and build that! Very comfy and cosy for 3! I've been aboard one.

JimD
10-27-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
Get a Flicka! ANYTHING but a catboat!

Find out what an Artic Tern (Devlin) is and build that! Very comfy and cosy for 3! I've been aboard one.So Meer, what's not to love about catboats?

TimH
10-27-2004, 05:09 PM
Catboats are cool :) I helped restore an 18 footer on White Lake when I was a teen in exchange for sailing time. Only got to sail on her once though...hmm I think I got ripped off come to think of it..

PVanderwaart
10-28-2004, 03:07 PM
Get a Flicka! ANYTHING but a catboat!
There was an article (or articles) in the Catboat Association Bulleting some years ago by a gentleman who bought a homebuilt Flicka, and converted her to gaff cat rig. He had the aid and comfort of the designer, and was happy with the result. His motivation was a mast low enough to get under a nearby bridge.

So, you can have a Flicka AND a catboat!

JimD
10-28-2004, 08:46 PM
Sooo...is it customary to think of a cat rig as something separate from a catboat? The former referring to a sailplan, the latter to a hull form?

imported_Steven Bauer
10-28-2004, 10:45 PM
This should make Joe crazy:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/pc834dc4ff362fc890b0bf2e8aaf3d482/fb5edcfa.jpg

I can be mean sometimes. :D

Steven

Joe (SoCal)
10-29-2004, 01:23 AM
:mad: Steven, how could you ??? arrrrrg Dam just look at that abomination :rolleyes: WHY WHY WHY ruin a big open cockpit and put a mast in the middle of the dam thing :mad: :mad: Just look at that mast step in the middle of the dam cockpit. OOOOH I could just imaging trying to navigate that cockpit and smashing your shins getting to the cabin arrrrrrrrrg it hurts to look MY EYES MY EYES :mad:

I swear to God if someone gave me that messed up catboat first thing I would do is take a chainsaw to that Mizzen and enlarge the boom and order new sails. Some older Cats had bowspirit and jibs so I might keep it. After that it looks like a sweat boat ;)

[ 10-29-2004, 02:24 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

imported_Steven Bauer
10-29-2004, 07:38 AM
:D

JimD
10-29-2004, 10:13 AM
Yes, but the ketch rig means you can leave the main mast where it belongs in the eye and not have it bust up the cabin space inside and also means you have no very large sail at all, a much more managable sailplan. Of course that still leaves the fact that the mizzen looks really out of place in a makeshift sort of way in the middle of the cockpit like that.

Joe (SoCal)
10-29-2004, 10:59 AM
Got an email from a lurker on this forum.


Joe,
I saw on the WoodenBoat Forum that you are looking for a catboat. I am not
registered to post on the forum so thought I would email you directly. I
am selling my 1980 20' wooden Cape Cod Catboat.
The boat (named Opal) was custom built by an individual here in Knoxville,
TN in 1980 using old Wittholtz design blue prints (I still have the
blueprints) for a 20' Cape Cod Catboat. The builder was intent on making
the boat as true to form of a turn of the century catboat as possible, so
he used all wooden spars, wooden blocks, bronze ports, and even put in an
old ceramic sink. One of the more interesting items in the boat is a fully
operational antique Penta 5.5hp 2-cycle engine (circa 1939). You really
feel like you're stepping back in time when you are on this boat. The boat
has stayed in the waters of Fort Loudon Lake near Knoxville, TN for most of
its life, but I understand that the original owner/builder sailed (and
motored) all the way to Mobile Bay and back.

Following is a list of some of the things that will be included with the
boat:
+ Large nicro solar power vent mounted on hatch cover
+ Two batteries (although I think that one of them is dead) with dual
battery switch
+ Mast mounted VHF antennae and a Raytheon VHF radio
+ bilge pump with float switch and an auto/manual switch
+ 6 gallon fuel tank
+ Anchor rode
+ 4 heavy duty dock line snubbers
+ 2 burner propane stove and small propane tank
+ porta pottie
+ life jackets

Unfortunately, I don't have a trailer for the boat but I'm sure something
could be arranged for transport.

Regarding pricing, I have had some difficulty assigning a value to this
unique one-of-a-kind boat as there is nothing out there to really
reference. Given the fact that I am located somewhat distant to the
catboat market in the northeast, and taking into account that you may have
to spend some money to get the boat home, I will consider any reasonable
offer. The main thing is that Opal goes to a good home.
I am just going to post some of the photos and ask you all what you think. I have my own oppions but I will reserve them untill I hear what you all have to say.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pb3e0aad6d7cb0ef2cc3689613ff5440d/f676e082.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/p7053b2cb689e63de145e9b009db4a5aa/f676e0a5.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pe37d8f30a385f8d8dd8baa73a84e1de5/f676e0bf.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pb8140b3ffdb904ee59f7cf7420ec241b/f676e0df.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/paab6b1399fe1072a7bd9032e1e5ab404/f676e120.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pa8c3f5e5cb348f5ec35dc7b2bebe0c25/f676e090.jpg

JimD
10-29-2004, 11:53 AM
She looks great! Wonder what's under all that white paint.

imported_Dutch
10-29-2004, 12:02 PM
looks like yellow pine on oak.

might be the one joe. take a look. it may be the photo but she looks like the fairness of the hull is a bit on the rough side by todays yacht standards. if it matters to you joe that translates to a bunch of long boarding to fix

imported_Steven Bauer
10-29-2004, 07:45 PM
It doesn't look like a twenty footer to me. My friend's 20' catboat sleeps five. It looks more like 16'. Let's see the rest of the pictures.
Other than that, take her. :D

Steven

Joe (SoCal)
10-29-2004, 08:36 PM
Am I the only one that sees the hull less than fair, the square cabin front and the rear cockpit combing way too SQUARE where is the roundness??? Also the cabin is less than comfortable or in the least bit plush. What's up with ALL l the WHITE paint where is the bright work??? And only one port hole on on each side for a 20 ft boat????

[ 10-29-2004, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

imported_Dutch
10-29-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Dutch:
looks like yellow pine on oak.

might be the one joe. take a look. it may be the photo but she looks like the fairness of the hull is a bit on the rough side by todays yacht standards. if it matters to you joe that translates to a bunch of long boarding to fix

Joe (SoCal)
10-29-2004, 10:17 PM
Bring the bilge up with ya Oyster did ya ?????? :rolleyes:

To my eyes it looks like ONE ROUND port on each side. Something else is forward but is sure don't look like a port hole and it sure don't look like one from the inside of the cabin.

So Oyster MIke come with it clean or don't come at all, Folla?

The hull just don't look fair to my eye and the coming and the front of the coach looks square to my eye. But it must be a southern thing hmmmm

Dutch I got what ya said and it was my over all lack of round fairness that takes me a back.

Joe (SoCal)
10-29-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by MIke:
Its a Charles Witholtz design, Look it up. With your knowledge of these boats, figured you would know about the cabin, and need a stink boat guy telling you about them, that all. The bow porthole is probably a Fuller, or facsimile? but ask they guy, not me, I have never seen the boat.

Try posting in the morning, when your mood changes and interpretation of replies are better. Give up the Folla. Pretty corny and arrogant to obtain a reasoned reply. Nuff.Yer the one bringing the bilge up here not me FOLLA?

#1 hell yea you know more about boats than me that's why I come to you for advice regarding boats. You want to ridicule me in an area you have profound knowledge only to make me look bad?? It would be like me calling you on a 6 color + aqueous Heidelburge press sheetfed Vs. Web feed capacity on 28" x 40" sheet.

You talk to ME in the morning when you have something to add regarding the boat and not some lame attempt to show me up.

Dave Gray
10-29-2004, 10:48 PM
Please keep the flame throwing in the bilge. If I want to keep my blood pressure up, that's where I go.

Meerkat
10-29-2004, 11:05 PM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pe37d8f30a385f8d8dd8baa73a84e1de5/f676e0bf.jpg

The fitting forward of the portlight is probably a running light.

What stops you from adding more portlights?

IMO, cats are big square butt-ugly boats. Their concept reminds me of bikes with training wheels and not something for someone seriously interested in sailing for it's own sake.

Joe (SoCal)
10-29-2004, 11:17 PM
This
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/pe37d8f30a385f8d8dd8baa73a84e1de5/f676e0bf.jpg

Or
That
http://www.myralee.com/images/ML%2003%20010.jpg

This
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/paab6b1399fe1072a7bd9032e1e5ab404/f676e120.jpg

Or
That
http://www.myralee.com/images/617cabinaft7.jpg

The question is can I make This look like That ?

Stiletto
10-30-2004, 02:24 AM
The second photo shows a different cabin roof construction, looking at the through bolts I wonder if it is some sort of sandwich.

I'm sure you could make the first like the second in the interior at least. It may be a bit harder getting a varnished finish on the cabintop and toerail.

Stiletto
10-30-2004, 02:28 AM
I think changing the cabinfront and cockpit coaming is starting to make it look fairly major for a boat that is actually in sailable condition.

It comes down to the comparative price I reckon, how little can you get a fancier one for?

Chris Coose
10-30-2004, 06:54 AM
IMO, cats are big square butt-ugly boats. Their concept reminds me of bikes with training wheels and not something for someone seriously interested in sailing for it's own sake.
http://www.vertechinc.com/archive/sports&games16/homer.jpg

Serious sailors would never step foot on a catboat. Just plain ugly and about as versitile a pair of shoes for a leg amputee.

Their concept was to fish off the Cape and it quickly became a pleasure boat design. They should have shot the designers and burned their drawings. Destroyed all the hulls.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid24/p1b0fddc170bf4fe6f6f276f64b03df37/fd9765bb.jpg

[ 10-30-2004, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Chris Coose ]

imported_Dutch
10-30-2004, 07:37 AM
Dutch I got what ya said and it was my over all lack of round fairness that takes me a back. i am speaking about the unfairness of the hull itself according to the pictures. looks like some major dimples or something going on, but it sure aint gonna be fun if you have to long board her fair whiile she sits upright.

i have never heard cabin and cockpit shape described as "unfair" simply because of a rectilinear shape

Joe (SoCal)
10-30-2004, 11:19 AM
He ASKED me to post it
He WANTED to know what people thought.

I ASKED permission before I posted. I agree its all about etiquette. I think I followed it correctly, but thanks for the lesson :rolleyes:

JimD
10-30-2004, 11:31 AM
I wuz looking at the potential :D not the boat as is. I still think she'd make a great project boat for someone who wanted to fit her out inside and strip some paint outside and have a go at the hull, as well. My x-mas present to myself is going to be the story of the 27 foot catboat San Toy, which about a hundred years ago sailed from New York to Key West, whose owner, W. Pearson, described her as "...through much wicked weather outside...[a] wholesome, able, fast little ship, a perfect home afloat, I have lived aboard her every day winter and summer for the past four years" (quote from The Gaff Rig Handbook by John Leather.)

JimD
10-30-2004, 11:52 AM
I bet you could round the front of the cabin by just adding a sort of semi circle to the front of it without chopping up the deck at all, and use it as a storage shelf inside. Rounding the combing wouldn't be that hard, either but even just adding a brightwork rail all around would make a huge difference appearance wise, especially if you raised the combing height to be flush with the cabin and then added bright benches to the cockpit. I don't think the transformation would be all that much work. Fairing the lumpy planking job on the hull might be the most tedious. You could always gouge it.

Meerkat
10-30-2004, 05:33 PM
Joe; You could make the outside of this look like that (largely a matter of bright accents: rubrail, eyebrow and bright hatches), but there's no way you could make the inside of this look like the inside of that: the cabin is not deep enough to have sitting headroom with legroom too. You could probably make the inside of this more cozy, but I sincerely doubt you could get as comfy as that!

Having seen this and that, I think you need to be on the lookout for the other ;)

Bill W
10-30-2004, 05:51 PM
I am the alleged lurker that owns Catboat Opal, and hopefully I can answer some of the questions posted here. First of all, I am not really a lurker because I haven’t ever visited this forum before. This thread was emailed to me by someone who visits this forum regularly and who knows I have a catboat looking for a home. I only just got my access approved so that I can respond on this forum. Secondly, I did give Joe permission to post the pictures and seek input from all of you “old salts” here. I do appreciate the interest and feedback on the boat and am glad to shed some light on some of the mystery.

As far as design, it is a 20’ catboat of Witholtz design. I still have the construction drawings. I am not a wooden boat expert, but was told that the boat was originally built of yellow pine planks on oak frames. The fittings on the side of the cabin just to the front of the portholes are in fact bronze running lights. The interior does have a rugged spartan interior, but I suspect that it is much the way a catboat might have actually looked at the turn of the century. No, the hull is not perfectly “fair” but does maintain the designs overall lines.

I realize that the boat is not in Bristol condition, but the boat is not a junker either. Depending on how much work one wants to put into it, it could be sailed and enjoyed as is or restored/remodeled to whatever level one desires.

I really don’t have a good feel for how much these things are worth so I place myself at the mercy of the forum and ask: “Just how much is this boat worth?” I am not looking to get rich off of a sale, but would like something to show for it….and the comfort of knowing that it will live on under someone elses care.

Joe (SoCal)
10-30-2004, 11:48 PM
Everyone say hello to Bill,

Thank you for the post Bill and thank you for looking for a good home for your catboat. I think JimD has some good ideas. Im interested and we can talk off forum about price and transport. I have a few considerations and bristol is not one of them. I do a fair job at turning less than Bristol into Bristol. :D I would liek to see others input and ask questions.

Thanks again

Larry P.
10-31-2004, 01:46 AM
Joe she has potential, it looks to me as she might have been modified over the years but it is late so don't trust my eyes. To steal or paraphrase a line of yours she seems to be lacking the ahh factor.

As to her worth, that is a difficult question. Honestly I think she worth what your willing to pay for her I don't say that to be contrary. It is hard to out a value on an old girl like that. I got my SS Sloop fpr next to nothing but somw owners of the SS wouldn't part with them for thousands which is how I feel about her.

Based on what you have done with your other boats I think you could make her a looker. If you don't feel it now don't do it. What did you think when you first saw her. Not to sound corny but to me when a wooden boat it right you heart should skip a beat when you see her just like it did when you met your first love.

Anyway I'm just rambling on now but that's my $.02

Wild Dingo
10-31-2004, 03:00 AM
And Larry beats me by a nanosecond!! :D

Okay she needs work we can all see that and Bill recognizes that... hes also not lookin to get rich from the sale but seems to rather want her to go to a good home where she will get the necessay work done to her and some fine sailing under her keel... shes not pristine shes in need

I felt the same as Mike re the portholes but then the pic wasnt altogether clear was it... take a step back and look at the pic again it does look as though there are two portholes but one being smaller than the other... but thats now clarified as running lights no worries.

Now the hull is the one we should be looking at here those lumps bumps and high spots between planks are what would be makihn my mind take out some of the potential $$ from the price as your going to HAVE to sort that out in the short term Id suggest.

As for the thing with Meers issue with catboats... I recall reading and seeing pics of a famous catboat called I think "Freda" or such originally named after the builders daughter built way back when and still sailed in San Fransisco bay absolute stunner... coming from humble beginings and after much effort she is now undeniably beautiful

All boats are a mixture of pleasure and pain all boats are a mixture of consessions and compromise so whats she worth in monetary terms? Id suggest Joe you make Bill an offer that you consider is at the low end of reasonable then this would allow some negotiation room for Bill to bring you up to what he would think is reasonable to his mind... compromise and consession.

Aaahh buggar it lets deal with this right here on forum... :eek:

Okay as cheif auctioneer I suggest we begin the negotiations on Joes part given the costs he will incur of moving her and the necessary work to be done at say $4000...

Bill you should counter that by increasing by say another $6000 making the price to Joe $10,000

Joe counters back with an offer of $7000

This of course being still to low to Bill given Bills attachements over the years but close given his desire for her to go to someone like Joe who will restore her so lets allow Bill to counter by saying $9000

Joe comes back at $8000

Bill agrees to $8500 and says throw in another $500 for the plans {which is a fair price for plans nowadays} and deal is done

So auction over at $9000!!! And both Bill and Joe walk away from the table happy and content.

Now for the followup process...

Bill remains on the forum awaiting Joes progress reports and becomes a contributing member joining in conversations sharing knowledge and skill

While Joe progresses till its restored properly

Bill and Joe get together and go for the launch and first sail draggin Wayne from his burrow in the swamp to be cabin boy tongue.gif

Joe posts masses of pics :cool:

Everyone happy...

gawd how easy was that?! ;) Strewth Im good! :D :cool: Gotta love this forum!!! :D

imported_Dutch
10-31-2004, 06:53 AM
bill

as some one who has made a living building and working on boats, i like yours and the thought behind building and fitting her out as she was originally designed.

i doubt that a turn of the century work boat had a whole lot of fairing of the hull, fancy accomodations, or varnished bright work

some folks are too yahcty in my opinion. snob appeal and all that.

keep looking. youll find her a good home

Joe (SoCal)
10-31-2004, 10:23 AM
Again I think I have to say I agree with Dutch. Distance and no trailer being one issue. I don't mind a working on a boat but I do not use boats for working. So a boat that looks like a turn of the century work boat without lot of fairing of the hull, fancy accommodations, or varnished bright work may not be for me.

I'm looking for a boat that is humble but yet can accommodate my wife and guests with a certain amount of style. She seems to be lacking the ahh factor.

Some folks are too yahcty in my opinion. snob appeal and all that. I guess that's me is that so wrong? I think that's is a good thread to explore. A person who likes the workboat esthetic but yet when investing your hard earned cash you do you have the right to want something a little more polished? Knowing that they will never use the boat for what its designed for. Same goes for racing sailboats that people cruise lazily on?

keep looking. you'll find her a good home

JimD
10-31-2004, 10:47 AM
... a famous catboat called I think "Freda" or such originally named after the builders daughter built way back when and still sailed in San Fransisco bay absolute stunner...Shane, issue #166 carried the article on Freda. She was a beauty alright, but all that aussie sun has played tricks on your memory. She's a clipper bowed gaff rigged sloop, with a long bowsprit, looked kinda like a freindship, only with a cabin reminiscent of a catboat.

AngWood
10-31-2004, 10:06 PM
This might be more work than you're looking for, but the price is nice and the location's not bad?

http://www.woodenboatrescue.org/carview.php?view=16

Wild Dingo
10-31-2004, 10:29 PM
Nah mate she was a catboat!!! I thunk?? dahmnit Im sure she was! gawd dont yer just love that memory thing?? mmmm?? maybe not freda then somethin similar DONT MAKE ME GO SEARCHIN!! ah heck okay I will then I know she was a catboat the one Im thinkin off...

So Joe another without the "ahh" factor you reckon mate? strewth there I had it sold and bought and all that for less than your stated budjet too :rolleyes: Compromise Joe... compromise! Imagine what you could do with her Imagine how you can resolve all her woes and beautify her to the level of stunning Imagine when all is said and done sailing her!! man use that imagination and SEE what she could be not what you think she should be... compromise and accept that the beautilishus catboat you want isnt going to happen for 10,000 accept that this one has POTENTIAL and is the right price and... go for it!!!

You can do it Joe!!! true you can... so be sturdy hearted me ol cobber and buy her do her up and go sailin wherever your heart should wander take young Tess with you if she wishes and the missus if she does too this would have the room for all of you... she just needs a bit of loving thats all

Go for it!!!

Now puttin on me serious ol phart hat {kindly donated by Granpaw Norm for just this occasion} and pullin out me gravellyest deepest voice I say!
"Joseph Foster you hear me boy! SIT UP STRAIGHT YOUNG MAN!!! Now... you get your backside trackside and go buy this here catboat and fix er up son... dont be a wimp lissenin to all these naysayers be your own man boy!... stand up and say I CAN DO THIS! and by gar lad get stuck in... stop whimpin around wringin yer hands and pullin at your chrome dome where hair would be pulled out if it existed up there and go get her boy!... dabnabital sonny you NEED this boat" :cool:

Okay ahem back to meself... Dont let me down Joeboy on da mountain go get that boat tongue.gif Why its not like you to let a wee thing like no trailer worry a strappin lad like yourself!! strewth son borrow one!! hell its yours for $9000!! {Bill did agree right?? maybe I missed that? :rolleyes: } A bit of work a bit of lovin a tad a varnish a swish of paint a bit of this an a bit of that and she will make yer proud!

tis up to you of course but if it were me... well... to say its been a bloody long time since Ive seen a wooden boat of any discription down this way for $9000 is an understatement... sometimes me thinks yous fellas is spoilt!! :rolleyes:

Go for it!!! :cool: She could be the sweetest thing ;) Do it properly of course and rename her the "SV Tessykins" and imagine Tess's eyes mate... how can you resist?? mmmm?? :D

[ 10-31-2004, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

Bill W
11-02-2004, 06:01 PM
Thanks to all for your comments, especially Wild Dingo for going through the bidding process and getting me $10k! smile.gif Reading all the comments, I don’t know whether to be flattered or depressed.

In all fairness, however, I realize that my location and not having a trailer does not work in my favor. Consequently, I am willing to be aggressive on price. I have taken advantage of WoodenBoat’s free ad offer and have sent a listing for Opal at $6,000, so let’s start the bidding there :D

A few things to consider for anyone interested in a possible acquisition:
1. The water level is starting to drop on the Tennessee River system so I will need to know pretty soon if I need to haul to boat out of the water and prepare for transport.
2. There exists a strong support group of “Opal” lovers here that will help me construct a cradle for the boat that can be set upon a trailer.
3. The plank replacements done while Opal has been in my custody were done by a professional. I know that by the exorbitantly high bill that I got for the work.

Bill W.

cs
11-08-2004, 12:09 PM
Bill, do you have any photos?

Chad

JimD
11-08-2004, 12:22 PM
Chad, there's several photos earlier in the thread.

cs
11-08-2004, 12:29 PM
Yes, I see that. I went back and looked. I also got an e-mail from an interested party about this boat. I am much closer than Joe (in fact I could sail her home), but at the present I can't afford to spend 6 grand on a boat, or else I might be all over this one.

Chad

cs
11-09-2004, 07:05 AM
Bill, I have been e-mailing back and forth with Tony about this boat and I forwarded the photos on to my wife and she loves it. Contact me and we can talk about it.

Chad

imported_Dutch
11-09-2004, 08:11 AM
maybe this should be retitled a catboat for chad

Bill W
11-09-2004, 09:55 AM
Chad,
Looks like Opal may be a perfect fit for you. Sailing the boat from Knoxville to Chattanooga would be a grand adventure! Let's talk. I'll get with you offline.

Perhaps a new thread should be started called Chad's Catboat?

Bill W.

John Bell
11-09-2004, 09:56 AM
Can I crew on the delivery? :cool:

cs
11-09-2004, 10:02 AM
Bill we need to discuss this. I am really interested. Lot of details that would need to be worked out.

John, I was counting on you to help crew. ;)

Chad

cs
11-09-2004, 12:03 PM
And so the negotiations begin.

I just got off the phone with Bill and he sounds like a great guy who is real interested in ensuring that Opal gets a good home. Of course at present we were just touching base and discussing the boat and the trip to Chattanooga. She has a beam of a little over 9', but you might could sneak down the road in the middle of the night w/o permitting or you could take the water way option down the Tennessee River (have to plot that one out tonight). He has friends about halfway down the river where overnight mooring might be available and he even talked about providing an escort down the river. I can just see a fleet of sailboats headed downriver. :D

A lot of details will have to be worked out (ie price, slip fees and getting her home) but we are starting the process.

Opal is carvel built from yellow pine with some planks replaced with cypress. He says that she is tight as a drum. The mast is a hollow mast but he says that the gaff and the boom are heavy (been knocked up side the head with them) so I assume that they are solid. The engine is a single cylindar that he says sounds like the African Queen.

One striking thing he said to me was about how you become attached to wooden boats, almost like they have a "soul". Funny seems like I've heard that said here. smile.gif

Chad

Art Read
11-09-2004, 12:49 PM
Catboat heaven - Arey's Pond:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/p110ec857283a0e4e2a34144f9eac59f1/f650ddc9.jpg

(Taken on a breezy afternoonon during our trip "home" to the Cape last summer ... Sadly, most of the couple dozen or so other "cats" there, swinging on their moorings in the pond, are out of the frame... You REALLY ought to take a day trip up there, Joe. And, of course, Crosby's yard in Osterville too! Go to the "source"! ;) )

[ 11-09-2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

Bill W
11-09-2004, 09:38 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention. I would really like to have visitatoin rights as part of the deal. :D

cs
11-10-2004, 06:16 AM
Bill, if we can work this deal out, you can come visit as much as you want.

Chad

nedL
11-10-2004, 07:16 AM
Sorry for nosing in here, but I have to add my .002. ;) Opal looks like a winner to me, & I really like the deck house just the way it is. As was mentioned, she looks 'just right' for a turn of the century cat: kind of spartan but effective. And look at the bilge under the engine its even dusty! If I were in the market for a small cat (and I do like them) I'd be headed out for a hard look. Very pretty. (Oh yes, I certainly see the lack of fairness in the planking, I see it as either a character adder, or easy enough to take care of.) - Though built in 1980, she still looks like she could have come right out of 1880.

[ 11-11-2004, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: nedL ]

imported_Steven Bauer
11-13-2004, 07:38 PM
Latest 'Messing Abaout In Boats' -

18' Herreshoff America Catboat. (late 70's?) Phalarope has 2 sails: 1 is the original w/ flag design. 1 is several seasons old & in good shape, made by North. There is a lot that goes with her, incl a gd trlr, a nice dinghyw/ shaw & Tenney oars, a vy gd dealer maintained 4 yr old Yamaha 6hp outboard & 2 3gal gas tanks. New this season: a Ritchie Helmsman compass, professionally adjusted (no deviation), 2 custom made closed cell berth cusions, & new running rigging. $7,500
Jon Potter, Rockport, Maine(207) 236-2852

Hughman lives in Rockland, and I'm just an hour and a half. There's a picture, I'll try to get the scanner fired up.

Steven

imported_Steven Bauer
11-13-2004, 07:53 PM
Here you go:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/p51c9e051ed62dbe31ef8f19792345e89/f6467afa.jpg

Steven

imported_Steven Bauer
11-13-2004, 07:58 PM
Here's what google had:

http://www.marinebrokerage.com//info/data/18herreshoff73.jpg

http://www.shaughnessy.us/assets/rum-tum-tugger-002.jpg

http://www.shaughnessy.us/assets/rum-tum-tugger-004.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
11-13-2004, 11:27 PM
Steven etc. what do you all think about the Herreshoff America Catboat. Kinda mass produced and :eek: Plastic, but I do find them kinda sweet boats smile.gif

imported_Dutch
11-15-2004, 10:42 PM
the america is a nice little boat-headroom is a bit tite inside the cabin on them, but some custom canvas work could make a nice watertie enclosure over the cockpit that would have plenty of room to party in while the kids go below. mast stepping on them can be difficult unless you install a custom tabernacle or engineer a mast stepping rig. if you wet slip it that wont be a bother. you might want to check the hereshoff eagle i posted on page one. the are 22 feet and have more room down below.

however you can often find the americas being sold fairly cheap when you figure in replacement costs of a comparable boat. eagles are a bit tougher to come by

Venchka
11-19-2004, 12:30 PM
Joe,

CATSPAW is still for sale. $15k US. I don't see how you could go wrong. She was built by very good people.

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/9/7/7/8/4/977845_1.jpg

CATSPAW (http://www.alongshore.com/boatshop/brokerage.htm)

I absolutely volunteer to help you get her home. Knowing my schedule, that may only be a week. Long enough to get her to Portland, ME where others can take over.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 11-19-2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

imported_Steven Bauer
11-19-2004, 04:33 PM
I'm in for the leg from Portland south. :D

Steven

Joe (SoCal)
11-20-2004, 06:27 AM
Mmmm I like :D
OK time to get to the brass of it. First I'll give the yard a call see if they have any other photos and feel out how firm they are on the price. Then I have to figure out how to get up there and get a survey and by whom. Then If I decide to buy her HOW DO I GET HER HOME???? Once I get her home where do I put her? All the boats have been hauled over at my yacht club. I would love to spiffy her up and spend some serious get to know you time with her in my barn but that means getting a sufficient trailer. I got a buddy who has an old picnic boat on a dually trailer that might be the key to the whole problem.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid91/pae8cbf628d4ffd9c588d7264b17ec93d/fa6cc9d5.jpg

Do you think this is a sufficient trailer for that Catboat??? Also I have to figure out how to get that POS picnic boat off that trailer and what to do with it, my buddy is still ummmm sentimental about her :rolleyes:

But that sure is a sweet Catboat. Hell wouldn't mind sailing her down if the winds of November weren't upon us. And I had the time.

OH I almost forgot the most important hurdle to jump SWMBO - how do I explain after 3 years of struggling financially on the brink of disaster that I want to blow $15K on a boat IN CANADA :eek: :eek:

Edited to add I did some Traveling speculation.

Total Est. Time:* 17 hours, 5 minutes Total Est. Distance:*917.38 miles

[ 11-20-2004, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

imported_Dutch
11-20-2004, 07:05 AM
can you haul a 9 foot wide boat on the trailer and over the roads?

Joe (SoCal)
11-20-2004, 07:15 AM
NO :(

Figment
11-20-2004, 03:40 PM
oh, you might be surprised to see some of the things that make their way down the road when nobody's looking. How far can you get it between the hours of 2 and 5 AM? ;)

The border crossing might require some planning, however.....

Joe (SoCal)
11-20-2004, 03:58 PM
Figment I emailed the yard this morning. I just got this back:


Joseph
The boat is off the market for the winter. I can send you pics on Monday. Perhaps they'll reconsider selling her in a few months. Where did you see the ad? Its no longer on our website.
Regards
Jim :(

Larry P.
11-20-2004, 04:01 PM
Joe what make is the boat that is on the trailer, I am a sailor at heart but that ain't a bad stinkpot

Joe (SoCal)
11-20-2004, 04:10 PM
Larry it's a 1953 Chapman Picknic boat

You wan't it?
Make me an offer and Ill tell my buddy. Come and get it and I'll throw in a dinner at my place :D

More photos here
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288450475

[ 11-20-2004, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Venchka
11-22-2004, 03:48 PM
Find out the weight of the boat. The real, honest, as it sits weight. Then check the load capacity label on the trailer. In a perfect world, the weight of the boat should be less than the load capacity of the trailer.

9'-0" wide technically means a wide load permit. A paper work formality any boat hauler can handle quickly and easily. However, 9'-0" wide will NOT require an escort.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

imported_Steven Bauer
11-22-2004, 08:57 PM
Joe, have you seen this video that the WoodenBoat Store sells?

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/images/35033S.JPG

"The story of the catboat as an inshore fishing boat, racing sailboat, general workboat and family cruising boat. Includes original video footage of catboats underway, under construction, and under restoration. 50 min.
For rental, see item 350-R33S "

You could rent it if you don't want to buy it. Or put it on your Christmas list. smile.gif

Steven

Keith Wilson
11-24-2004, 03:52 PM
Joe, FWIW there's an ad in the latest Messing About in Boats for a Herreshoff America 18' FG Catboat, with a dinghy and outboard, asking $7500. AFAIK they don't have a web site with the ad, though.

Here's a picture of the type (not that specific boat)

http://www.marinebrokerage.com/info/data/18herreshoff73.jpg