View Full Version : New Lightweight "Wood"
06-15-2003, 07:47 AM
How about a wood tray approx. 23" x 7" that weighs 1 lb - 5 oz?????
That's not my desk by the way, just happened to be where the postal scales was.
I'm kicking myself for not getting exact measurements, but the lower tray is a bit larger and comes in a 1 lb - 9 oz.
The table is carbon fiber and weighs in at just over 10 lbs. (Not bad for a salon table)
Chuck & the Annapolis folks will recognize the boat :D
Before and After (http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/HC50table.htm)
There's potential here folks. I don't see a carbon fiber table going into Sarah, but where we're missing piecies of her interior cabinetry and can't get good wood to match we can just make our own outta foam :D (and a little veneer).
They gave me some foam scraps to play with and in my spare time I'm going to figure out this vacuum bagging-veneering business. First project will be a new salon table for my 22' - current table must weigh 30 lbs. It's a bear to wrestle on and off the boat. It's not structural, so why does it have to be so heavy?????
[ 06-15-2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]
06-15-2003, 12:59 PM
Interesting, and a lovely bit of work too! Lightweight can be quite a fetish. If you want to see the lengths to which one can go to achieve the lowest possible weights for a given strength check out some items once found on dirigibles: aluminum pianos for instance. Those guys back in the 1930's would have gone nutz over carbon fiber!
06-15-2003, 06:33 PM
Gee that light weight stuff is the cat's meow. But we will bet good money that the weight of your average guest can vary from 85 to 385 pounds. So these designers go for the lightweight stuff in the head vanity to sell the boat, and then a couple of 250 pound pals of the owner come aboard with their 20 pound video camera packs and some luggage and............. it makes you love those old 20,000 pound displacement yachts.
06-15-2003, 08:57 PM
06-15-2003, 10:08 PM
There are lots of opportunities to save weight in a boat. Some of 'em are easy and some less so. I had a hard time with the trade-offs 'til i adopted the idea that, for a given boat, you can set a dollar value on a pound saved. To get to this figure, I asked myself what would be the effect on the value of the boat if it were a thousand pounds lighter. Divide by the thousand and you have a per-pound value.
I'd guess that for a heavy displacement boat such as a Concordia, it's be maybe $10/lb. , for a light dinghy maybe $25, and for a go-fast multihull it might be $50-100 .
06-16-2003, 07:52 AM
I met an America's Cup skipper (I think it was Cayard though I'm having trouble remembering) at a boat show. We were talking about the Edson carbon fiber wheel, which ran about $4000 if I remember right, and was, oh, maybe 5 oz lighter than another version. He said, smiling:
"If I was only trying to save weight I wouldn't let me crew wear shoes. but if I have a multimillion carbon fiber boat I'm damn well going to have a carbon fiber wheel".
Good point. :D
06-16-2003, 09:51 AM
Carbon is still too d*** expensive. Impregnated paper honeycomb has come down some and makes admirable sandwich panels.
Alan D. Hyde
06-16-2003, 12:51 PM
Weight in a boat can be a good thing, in the right places. It can make her ride easier, and will help her carry her way through heavy seas.
I personally can see the justification for weight-reduction among the racing set, but I can't get very interested in it myself.
It's just not that valuable in the context of cruising...
Using light weight material in a boat may not make it lighter overall, but it means that you can change where the weight is. I would much rather have as much weight down in the keel as possible. Why have it higher than you have to? This is especially true as you go up the boat. The rougher the weather the more this is true, and the faster the boat will go. A carbon fiber mast on a J-105 (35ft medium fast racing boat)in light air is about 3-5 seconds per mile faster than an aluminum rig. In heavy air this spreads out to minutes per mile, and you can bet the ride on the carbon rigged boat is much nicer.
I love wooden boats, but I still want any boat I sail to have most of it's weight hanging off the bottom where it should be. I understand that cost is a serious issue, but if you can make it light do it. Lots of little things will add up. Especially if this weight is on the ends of the boat.
My .02 cents.
06-16-2003, 07:18 PM
For the sake of argument, let's say that other than having a bee in my bonnet to try something new, my table really needs to be replaced. The original table = 3/4 ply with Formica top and teak fiddles. Formica to be replaced, fiddles to be reused, brace underneath that holds the legs to be reused.
From the first websites that came up in Google searches:
Divinycell foam (5lb) = $38.02 per sheet
BS Okoume 6566 = $95.00 per sheet
BS Okoume 1088 = $131 per sheet
BS Meranti 6566 = $63.00 per sheet
BS Meranti 1088 = $96.00 per sheet
I guarantee you cutting a piece of foam short is going to hurt a whole lot less than cutting a piece of ply short :D
BTW that's a good point made as to the difference (or lack thereof) to be had by loosing a few pounds in a heavy displacement hull. But this is a little 22' day sailer, and I do want my little boat to go fast. If I can't go fast, I don't wanna go tongue.gif
If I can loose 30 lbs. two feet above the water line, I think that's a good thing. Unfortunately all the foam in the world won't improve my sailing skills :rolleyes:
[ 06-16-2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]
06-17-2003, 09:50 AM
Foam won't but sailing will!
06-19-2003, 02:25 AM
I venture that the Divinycell price above wasn't for a 4x8x3/4" sheet.
One of my suppliers gets $117 for same.
Add the cost of whatever structural skins and veneer are needed and you certainly won't come out cheaper.
Work out the cost per removed pound and then judge whether it makes sense for the boat.
Or, just say "I gotta get these skills" and do a project where, if it turns out a pound heavier than it might be, nobody cares.
[ 06-20-2003, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: JimConlin ]
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