need someone to check calculation

[eastern270]

can someone varify that my calculations are correct or maybe wrong. I need to know the board feet of a boat 22' long with a 7'9" beam.
Looking at the body plan the longest line full size will be 6 feet x 2=12 feet x 12=144 inches.
the deck line in the half breadth is 23feet long. 23x12=276 inches.
276inchesx144inches=39744.
39744/144=276 board feet.
276 bd. ft. @5.00 bd. ft.=$1380.00
right ? or wrong ?
Thanks.

[RonW]

RIGHT ...

I take it that you are figuring the outside square foot area of a 22foot hull to buy lumber.
A 22ft. x 8 ft. boat has approx. 250 square feet in area for the outside of the hull area.
You must be buying mohagony at $5. a board ft.
Remember that a board foot is a square foot x 1inch thick. So if you bought 276 square feet at 3/4 inch thick, it is only 207 board feet. And if it is 276 square feet of lumber at 1 & 1/4 in. thick it is 345 board feet. Gotta keeep a eye on the lumber yard.

[htom]

Right in that 144 cubic inches of wood is a board foot, probably wrong in figuring out how many board feet there are in the boat, and wrong in assuming that there's a complete conversion of purchased wood to boat. You're going to make a lot of chips and sawdust before you're done.

I'd figure 24' x 4' x pi ~= 300 sq. ft. for area (very rough assumption) which would be board feet for inch thick plank. But you need to buy thicker-than-inch to end up with inch thick plank, and the other problems of making rectangular boards fit the curves of a boat are still there.

My guess is that you should order a thousand board feet, because you might get a discount at that size.

[mmd]

eastern, your numbers are reasonable, but add 15% for wastage & goof-ups.

[eastern270]

I realize about the scrap created from ripping the boards into whatever the width is going to be. The price of $5 bd. ft. is for spanish cedar from Boulter plywood in somerville mass. not for mahogany unless anyones knows of a better price elsewhere. I also figured the dimensions from the widest part of the boat and the longest line from the half breadth view so it should already have a little extra added in I think. I got another price of spanish cedar ripped into 1 inch square pieces for 75 cents per lin. ft. which if I calculated correctly comes out way more than $5 bd. ft. thanks again for your replies. Now I just have to start lofting this boat and keep the ball rolling.

[Billy Bones]

I pay about $2.85/bf for 8/4 RWL spanish cedar (cedrella odorata) from hardwood suppliers in FL. Even S4S and including shipping, that sounds high. Seafarer marine recently quoted me $7something/sf for spanish cedar speedstrip 3/8"x 3/4". Naturally I choked at that price, thankyouverymuch.

[JimConlin]

I think i've bought spanish cedar from Downes & Reader in Stoughton (781 341 4092). I've had fewer quality surprises there than from some other nearby vendors.

[eastern270]

billy bones, what is the name of the supplier where you got your spanish cedar for 2.85/ bd ft and Jim C. i have already called downes and reader yesterday and they quoted me spanish cedar ripped into 1" squares for .75/ per lin ft. Thats comes out to 9.00 bd. ft if i'm correct.

[RonW]

Hey eastern270:
Are you building paul gartside's 22ft. motor launch plan #141. If so, I take it from your posts that the plans calls for 1 inch square strip planking. Just as a reference point, glen-l's eagle, also a lobster boat 22ft.x8ft. the plans on it calls for 3/4 thick strips.

Your $9 a board ft. on precut spanish cedar strips x the 276 sq. ft. you need comes up to $2,484. Pretty pricy for just the hull planking, as I am sure you already calculated. My reference above to mohagony was that I thought you was buying 3/4inch thick mohagony for about $7. a board foot and ripping it yourself, with the planking only being 3/4inch thick, that would be about $5. a square foot for the hull planking.

The reason I am bringing this up, Most lumber yards readily have 3/4 inch thick stock and 1&1/2 thick stock but usually only the specialty lumber suppliers will have other thickness.
In cincy I can buy 1x6 -3/4 inch thick clear s.y.p. for $1.15 a lineal foot or approximately $2.50 a square foot, all to do then is but to rip it into the planking, and for the eagle (basically the same boat)I will only have about $750 in the exterior planking.Long ways from this $2484 price for precuts.

You might want to make a list of the various types of lumber that you would use for your planking and do some shopping. Even if you had to buy a brand new table saw and rip it yourself.
Don't forget to check your local lumber yards and see what type of wood they sell in 2x10's, sounds like a lot of waste, but don't be surprised if you could end up having less then $1500 in your planking and a brand new table saw included in that price.
Just a suggestion to help you keep the cost within reason.

[eastern270]

I am planning on building this boat. Have the plans but trying to work out some of the materials details. the plans call for 5/8 cedar fore/aft followed by a diagonal layer of 5/32 and another fore/aft layer of 5/32. this adds up to 15/16 total. this is why i am just planning on 1 inch planking. My father has just about every tool you can imagine from tablesaw,planer,routers, etc..It gets very confusing after looking at a couple websites and talking with lumber distributors about ordering lumber. you have some calling it 4/4 and when others are calling it 1 inch and then some tell you that you want 5/4 planed down to 1 inch and then ripped into 1 inch square strips. i am not getting frustrated yet but the idea of just going to home depot and picking through a stack of some 2 by lumber and ripping it into strips myself is beginning to seem like the easier way to do things. I plan on covering the hull anyways with a layer of fiberglass and epoxy inside and out.the 5$ bd ft quote for the spanish cedar i got was for 1/2 or 3/4. seems like alot when others are telling me they got theres for 2.85 bd ft. . How can there be such a big difference in price. I have been web surfing for lumber to long and i'm starting to ramble on in a little confusion and it's time for dinner and i appreciate all the answers from everyone on the forum.
Thanks again
SeanM.
Ronw, are you building the glen-l design you mentioned. I actually looked at that design. very similar to what i'm trying to get started except for the design i have is hollowed out at the garboard. I think i said it correctly.

[ 01-13-2005, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: eastern270 ]

[RonW]

O.K. think I can shed a little light on your problem. First off 4/4 and 5/4 is nothing more then 1 inch and 1 & 1/4 inch thick lumber.The lumber yard that is telling you that you need 5/4 planed and ripped, are actually telling you, hey we do not have any 1 inch thick lumber, but we do have this 5/4 or 1&1/4 inch thick stuff that we can sell you, then we can run it through our planers and plane it down to 1 inch, ( at $75. a hour mill time) and then we can run it through the table saw and cut it into 1 inch strips for you,( of course that will be another $75. a hour mill time charge.)Pretty slick huh, you got your lumber and they made a sale. But honestly on the other side of the coin, don't be afraid of the mill time, lumberyards have great equipment and it would probably only be 3 or 4 hours of charge time to do this, really not bad and can save you a lot of work and time.

Next problem, as I understand it, gartside has 5/8 strip planking with 2 veneers of 5/32 over that. A modern form of combining strip planking and cold molding together.A little of each. Personally my opinion is that these methods create a lot of extra work and exspense. So you added up the thickness and it comes to 15/16, so you are thinking of just using the thicker strips without the veneers and then fiberglassing in and out.Another variation on strip planking.
I would call gartside and get his approval to use 3/4 inch thick strips with fiberglass cloth inside and out. This is called the sheathed strip method.This is what the McNaughton group has scantling schedules on. There are 3 right now threads on the building and design forums disscussing strip planking methods, read them, there is a link to the McNaughton website. Also a word of caution, 1 inch thick strip planking might be pretty hard to bend on a 22 foot boat, usually 1 inch thick would dictate around 28 to 30 foot hulls.3/4inch is pretty standard on 20 to 26 foot hulls. Bottom line is if you can change your planking schedule to 3/4 I think you will readily find lumber that only needs to be ripped.And all these uncommon dimensions and availability will dissolve. Some types of lumber to consider-but not limited to- are white cedar, yellow cedar, douglas fir- mohagony- Southern yellow pine.

Here is a link to glen-l's material list for the eagle, basically the same hull. They use 3/4 inch thick strips for planking in traditional or conventional as they call it, then they reduce the 3/4 to 1/2inch with only one 1/8 inch veneer over that, probably glass cloth as well.You chioice to which method you choose.
http://www.glen-l.com/designs/workboat/eaglep-bom.html

Yea I have the plans for the eagle and am going to start on it in spring. I am simply buying clear s.y.p. in 1x6 or 3/4 inch thick by 5 &1/2 inch wide and strip it out to 3/4 by 3/4 and plank away. In fact I will buy it in 14 and 16 foot lenghts and have the lumber yard rip it for me, and pay the mill time. Simple, easy, fast and I will have about $900. in planking for the same size boat as yours, counting mill time.
One of the big benefits of strip planking, is being able to find readily available cheaper lumber and rip it and plank. All these weird dimensions and laminate schedules kinda blows that theory. Also strip planking is deemed as being stronger and more maintance free..

Here is a link to a co. that sells 316 stainless trim nails, should be a lot better choice then galvanized.
http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/

[ 01-13-2005, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: RonW ]

[eastern270]

thanks Ron,
i have access to 3/4 inch sp. cedar at $5 bd ft locally about 20 miles or less away. who is the supplier of the s.y.p. you buy and is it more difficult to plank with since it is a harder wood. Thanks for link to the fasteners, i've already bookmarked it. Here is the link to the wood supplier i've used before. check it and let me know what you think of there pricing.
http://www.boulterplywood.com/

[ 01-14-2005, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: eastern270 ]

[RonW]

Eastern, I buy all my lumber locally, I haven't ever ordered lumber. Guess if you have to, well then you have to. Not the case around here, someone has what you want, too many lumber yards to choose from.Boulter has fair prices on plywood, but the teak and douglas fir sure isn't cheap.I do not know what to say about spanish cedar, other then it comes from mexico and south america, never used it. But I would take a hard look at before I bought a bunch, as to tendency to split and fastener holding ability.
I think you are asking the wrong questions at your local lumber yards, they should either be stocking douglas fir or S.Y.P. for floor joists.Which ever one they are stocking, they should also have the same lumber in 1 by in clear, such as 1x6 and 1x8, there is your 3/4 ich thick lumber.If they are stocking douglas fir, make sure you can get all douglas fir, and not a mixture of other stuff like hemlock or spruce.
S.Y.P. is easy to work with, it is not a hardwood, but actually most the time is classified as a soft wood, it is right on the line between a hardwood and a soft wood.It is 40-41 lbs a cubic foot- oak is 47-48 lbs a cu.ft.-douglas fir and mohagony are 34-36 lbs a cubic ft. teak is 43lbs. a cu.ft. When you strip this boat you can use either ring shank boat nails or 316 stainless trim nails, but if you use the trim nails, then you have to drive them at a angle left and right, not straight up and down, this will then act like drift pins and will not come apart. Snoop around your local lumber yards, so you don't spend all your money on wood and have enough left over to buy a motor with. It is embarassing to have a nice new big boat and have to putt around the harbor with a little second hand 10 horse outboard that smokes.