A question for those who enjoy blue water sailing!

[Wild Dingo]

Got to thinking as I was reading an article from Woodenboat #34 {Good Sence and Seamanship by Michael Badham} anyway he says that any offshore sailing should be done with an eye to what possibly could go wrong and being able to fix or repair and having enough spares onboard for any emergency... well not in so many words but thats the gist of what he talks off...

Now he cites a book called "Once is Enough" by Miles Smeeton {Rupert Hart-Davis, London which Im gonna go have a hunt for in the coming week although with my present luck at finding books such as this I am slightly less than optimistic about} and how during the Smeetons circumnavigation they pitch poled as they rounded the Horn causing some seriass damage to the ship and his wife {broken collar bone and cut to the head after being catapulted out of the cockpit as the boat sumersaulted}... but here we are interested in the ship itself... So the TZU HANG {Smeetons 46' Ketch} was in bad shape and here I'll quote the article...


The tiller, the cockpit coaming, and every scrap of the doghouse had gone, leaving a 6' x 6' gap in the deck. Both masts had been taken off level with the deck, the dighies were gone, and the cabin skylights were sheared off a few inches above the deck. The bowsprit had been broken in two. The rail stanchions were bent all over the place, and the wire was broken. A tangle of wire shrouds lay across the deck, and in the water to leeward floated the broken masts and booms. The compass was gone, and so had the anchor which had been lashed to the foredeck...
Now given this above dramatic actual eventuality they subsequently were able to make some repairs and limp to port.

The question I have is what would you carry to cover such a situation?... given the size of the boat in question human needs sailing needs ...what would you carry to cover all possible situations understanding that its just not feasible to carry spare masts booms etc what extra would you carry to be able to effect repairs and make way again?

Also what would your must have toolkit be made up off?

The final quote is worthy of taking note of from the article is thus...


"There could be no more desolate picture. The low lying water logged helpless hill, the broken spars and wreckage, that greyish-white sea; no bird no ship, nothing to help, except that which we had within ourselves"Anyone? :rolleyes:

[ 02-01-2003, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[reddog]

Shane;
You have to read their books as they are classics.The book Once is Enough chronicles their attemps to round The Horn in Tzu Hang.First try pitch poled,second rolled 360.This couple were not your average yachties.I believe they patched the boat up enough to make port using spare bits of wood,broken pieces,etc.
Not being a blue water sailor I can only speculate on the stores needed to do long distance voyaging.I guess you could never have enough.Of course if you travel regularly in The Roaring 40's and Screeming 50's you would want to be darn sure you were prepared.
Earl

[Bruce Taylor]

Lots of copies listed on Bookfinder.com -- including several from Munchkinland (cheapest at FLinders books, Aspendale, VIC, Australia, 3195
$2.94)

more here:

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=IOBD8MNzfe7WptjXc.CQL5eQdJI_4339200175_1:25:80

[Wilson Fitt]

The question is about gear for long distance voyaging, but I can't resist a diversion into the Smeetons' story.

Miles and Beryl Smeeton were amazing travellers and sailors. Beryl travelled widely by herself in Asia and South America and then, after the war, she and Miles took up ocean voyaging in Tzu Hang, entering the pantheon of the greats. Beryl's books about her travels and Miles' about their ocean voyages are on the "must read" list of travel stories. She was at least an equal partner in their adventures, and often seems to have been the driving force.

I saw Tzu Hang in Halifax quite a few years ago but did not have a chance to go aboard. Friends who have been aboard say that the vessel was very simple by modern standards, positively spartan down below. Don't know what they carried for emergency repair gear, the following quote from "Once is Enough" gives an idea. This is after their second capsize.

"Then we climbed down through the skylight and started to bail in the same way as we had bailed before, with a plastic bucket. We had to bail in order to find the hammer and some nails, for all the ship's stores had again emptied out of their lockers, and lay in wild confusion in the water below. By half-past eight we were able to explore the bilge and found the hammer and some 2-inch copper nails and with these and a jib we climbed once more out of the skylight to deal with the cockpit.

"If anything, the conditions on deck were worse than before, and no sooner had we reached the weather side of the cockpit than we were swept again by a mass of white water. We grabbed for the remaining shrouds, and when the water had cleared, we thought that we'd lost the hammer, but found it wedged under the broken rail. Another wave swept us, so that we were separated from each other, and the whole ship seemed to be under water, but this time the hammer was gone. Beryl climbed down through the skylight again and brought up the wooden mallet, and while I stretched the sail over the boards we had nailed across the cockpit, she nailed it down. We were continuously left gasping and sodden, and felt an unreality about the situation, as if we were acting in in a tableau of two people clinging to the shrouds of a wave swept wreck, in an old fashioned picture. While I stretched the sail and held the battens in place, I kept an eye to weather, ready to shout a warning to Beryl to catch hold of the shrouds.

"Nothing is more exasperating than watching a left handed woman trying to hammer 2-inch copper nails into a teak deck. It would be bad under the best of circumstances, but now it had all the ingredients of a nightmare. The nails folded over one after the other , and when I could get the opportunity I grabbed the mallet, only to find that I made a worse job of it than she did. Beryl pounced on the mallet again and finished the job."

"... As we lay, cold and unable to sleep, Beryl kept saying, 'At any rate we have got plenty of time. There is no need to go rushing about and getting exhausted. We'll just do a little and then we'll ahve a rest.'"

So there you have it: a spare sail, copper nails, a wooden mallet and incredible fortitude.

[Wild Dingo]

Thanks Wilson... Seems they were two of a kind rarely seen nowadays... I HAVE GOTTA GET THAT BOOK! :cool:

So thats all a fella needs eh?... just a bucket for bailin some bronze nails to bend a hammer to toss overboard and a mallet to bend the bronze nails with... and a mountain of intestinal fortitude... peice of cake! Ha!! :eek: :rolleyes:

[Wilson Fitt]

This is a separate post responding more directly to the question because I didn't want to leave even the slightest impression that we are in the same league as the Smeetons. Not close, not even within sight of them.

Heading offshore, we carry spares, spares for the spares, a hardware store worth of fastenings, plywood to cover hatches and ports, goop and sticky stuff, sheet copper, nearly every tool I own, rigging wire and terminals, big bolt cutters, sail repair materials, caulking cotton, irons and a mallet, and three hammers as backup for the mallet. Got the copper nails too.

The repair kit weighs fifteen hundred pounds or more judging from the waterline.

[reddog]

Great reading.They rate up there with the Hiscocks and Moitesser.I didn't know that they had been in halifax.
Earl

[Henning 4148]

Shane,

in the end it is up to the skipper what he carries. He is responsible for the life of everyone on board.

I have no experience in blue water sailing and do not want to give advice on that, but already in coastal sailing the following things have happened in a small club (approx. 40 cruisers, mostly aged between 10 and 20 years) within four years: chainplate ripped out through the deck, a forestay attachment point gone with part of the foredeck, props fouled, sails ripped, water inlets blocked by garbage, seacocks seized, engines overheated, engine core plug come loose after 20 years, a steering console ripped out of the cockpit by the mainsheet, a defect stern gland nearly sinking a boat, blocked fuel lines, broken oil pressure indicator fitting, engine heat exchanger failing, cracked mast, fittings on the mast failing, various electrical failures, cable shoe on the starter motor breaking, batteries failing, rudder broken when hitting a submerged wall, skin fitting failure, trouble with all sorts of pumps, a clamp breaking, the all time favorite "loo defect", cooker jumping out of its anchorpoints, sail slides jamming, engine bearings breaking, a gas leak, a prop shaft breaking from crack corosion, a reef hook opening under load, roller reefings jamming, a boat sinking on the mooring in a swell, engine requiring bleeding in the harbour entrance and so on and so on. None of this happened in a real storm! In years before a keel had been bent when a boat came of a wave crest and another boat had sunk when the hull had split open also after coming of a wave crest.

All this has made me a believer in very simple, robust and preferably overdesigned systems, opting for the best quality, regular inspection and maintenance, in easy access to engine, stern gland, steering system, wiring and all other vital systems, in engines that can be hand started, in (backup) navigation that does not require electrics and in carrying more or less all the hand tools and spares that you have.

Add to this an interior fit out that will keep everything at its place even if the boat goes 360 and then start to think about these special moments "what will I need if I loose this hatch /window / spar ..." and ...

Well, as said above I have no experience in blue water sailing. There is more to it than the above. The above is just for coastal sailing.

[ 02-01-2003, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Henning 4148 ]

[Wild Dingo]

Thanks fellas...

Well seems there is no definitive answer to the question although I think Wilson would come close although how that extra weight translates into the build of the design is an interesting thought... do the designers take into account the added weight when they design? I think Anita said once that Al would take into consideration the weight of every item to be onboard down to cups and cutlery but Im wondering about the extra weight as Wilson states he takes aboard?... its a considerable amount "1500lbs or more" how does that affect sail trim and other factors? Is it considered early in the design aspect as in the designer considering "we have to account for up to 2000lbs of extra weight for spares"... just curious about how much one takes and how that impacts on the boat safety and sailing ability offshore.

Barb any ideas from Daves designs?

[Jay]

Has anyone seen Tzu Hang in recent times?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I read somewhere that Tzu Hang was flattened by a bulldozer in a car park somewhere in the Caribbean, not very long ago; she had fallen on hard times and nobody wanted her.

There were three people and a cat on board, the third person was John Guzzwell. The cat was washed OB but got back again. My favourite scene from the book is John Guzzwell sitting calmly sharpening his saw before getting to work.

Personally, remembering early experiences in imperfect craft, I carry a sheet of lead and some copper tacks, and if I may pass on a tip from the late Maurice Griffiths, which appears in none of his books, Plasticine ("Play Dough") is very handt thing to have on board.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Found it. "Tzu Hang" was used for drug smuggling in the 1980's; she was apprehended in San Juan, Puerto Rico, where she was damaged in a hurricane whilst under arrest, the bits were hauled off to the town dump and bulldozed.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

I fancy she was built by A.King, in Hong Kong - Jerry Sousa will know.

[Henning 4148]

Shane,

Dave Gerr gives some ideas on this in "The nature of boats". He says "... the weight of crew and stores equals about 7 - 9 percent of her total weight". He also goes further into detail.

Basically this means, that for long distance cruising you will select a boat that has havier displacement to start with as you have to carry more stores.

I like the book!

[Meerkat]

I think if I where in such a situation, I would want to have packed a John Guzwell among the spares! From his telling of the tale in "Trekka Around The World", he was the prime mover in saving the "Tzu Hang". Of course, it was his book. ;)

An update on plasticine might be underwater epoxy.

[ 02-02-2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Wilson Fitt]

We seem to have two discussions going at once here. Just like our table at suppertime. Even when I'm home alone...

Re: the Smeetons.

They had two capsizes near Cape Horn. Guzzwell sailed with them from Melbourne bound for England and played a key part in recovering from the first incident. He gets full credit in Smeeton's book. After repairs in Chile, the Smeetons set out again, just the two of them with the cat, and suffered the same experience. Again they secured the boat and made it to Chile under jury rig. This time the boat was shipped home. Within a couple of years of these incidents they set out on a meandering east about circumnavigation, and then ended their sailing careers with a passage from England to British Columbia via Cape Horn.

Re: gear and loads. Our full live aboard, ocean sailing payload is around 4,000 lb for two people. This is approaching 20% of the dry weight of the boat and I think is typical of long distance sailboats in the same size range.

Another little anecdote: We sold our house and committed to be clear of the property by the 30th of June 1999. Launch date was June 18th, so we had less than two weeks to rig the boat for the first time, commission the engine, empty the workshop, empty the house, cancel the phone and clear out. I remember wandering through the house on the 29th when there was still piles of stuff in every room, thinking there is no way that this is ever going to fit aboard that boat! Somehow it did, and we managed to sort through it in the end. But it's heavy.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

When we moved back into a house we were startled by how much stuff came out of the boat! Indeed, had the boat not been due for a serious refit, much of it might have stayed aboard.

[George Roberts]

I guess you can build the boat for the conditions or carry a lot of repair materials.

I prefer to build for the conditions.

A proper mast with the sail raised should never break.

A cabin should never fail even with blue water breaking over it.

A boat with a hole through the hull should float.

I remember in the 70's taking trips 500 mile trips in my car with two tools boxes and spare parts. I now take 3000 mile trips with no tools and no parts. Current cars are that much more reliable. Current boats should be that much more relaible also.

(An ELB may be the most important supply to carry.)

[Phil Young]

What a contrast between the Smeetons and George Roberts. George mate, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. But increasingly representative of people who go to sea in small boats. I did a seamanship course once, one of the questions asked was "what is the most important piece of safety equipment on your boat? Fire extinguishers? Life jackets? Life lines? Sextant? Nope, radio. People are being taught that if it all turns to crap, just get on the radio, or fire up the EPIRB, and wait to be rescued. George, things will break. Salt will get into electrical fittings. Metal will corrode. Joints will move. Fittings will harden and weaken, and break. Things will get tangled and break other things. A bouyant hull might be a nice idea, but voyagers need lots of storage. A bullet proof hull might be nice, but you need a boat that will actually sail, and let light and air inside. You need to be able to fix the things that break, or have "get me home" backup, and the ability without assistance to repair things. When you're going through a narrow reef passage, what happens if your engine dies? You need your sails ready to hoist instantly, not in bags below decks. They are your backup. An epirb won't keep you off the reef. There's a million other situations where you can't just call the auto club and get back on the road, and I'd suggest it is grossly irresponsible not to do everything possible to ensure total self reliance. Sorry George, but that's it.

[Paul Griffin]

Phile

I'll sail with you any time!

Paul

[Smacksman]

I reckon the spares needed are to keep sailing (somehow), fill holes and to make drinkable water.

Rare spare parts (other than normal maintenance parts) for all the un-essential, sexy gear like engines, winches, cookers, heads, electronics, etc. can all be couriered to anywhere now. The tricky bit is finding someone to fix it properly if you can't do it yourself.

One bit of kit that the Smeatons had in their life raft was plastic tubing which Beryl used to give everyone enemas [spelling] - ie. drip feed sea water up your backside where the body could do the filtering. Must have been a cozy way to get to know each other really well.

[Dave Hadfield]

I find it convenient at times even when sailing on the Great Lakes to have basic spare materials: some sheet metal, brass or bronze rod, various lengths and bits of plywood, lengths of hardwood I can hide away, a well-stocked toolbox, bits of chain, various turnbuckles, copper brake tubing, a sheet of gasket material, galvanized wire, a quite varied assortment of screws and bolts (now quite organized, I'm proud to say), pieces of hose in various sizes, a wide variety of ropes and cordage, Slick Seam, aluminum straps and rods, various glues and googes -- all this in addition to specific spare parts.

I make parts to fit out of "raw" materials just often enough to want them on board.

As for the Smeetons, he says at the end of his fine story thatthe most valuable thing he had on board, and the thing without which he wouldn't sail, was Beryl.

[NormMessinger]

Hi Smacksman. I've been wondering if you'd dropped off the edge of the earth. Good to hear from you.

Tell me more about the hose deal. Are they saying one can uptake water and leave the salt behind (Behind! I didn't know what I was saying.) to be eliminated?

[John E Hardiman]

Just to put the topic back on course:

Shane asked:

what would you carry ?

When I outfitted my last boat, a 26' CCA racer/crusier I carried the following in addition to the boats fixed gear and sails:

USCG REQUIRED Safety gear, and a 5 gal water jug.
complete charts for the area, and a hand bearing compass
2 anchors, primary with 26 feet of chain, and 300' rode; plus 4 50 foot 3 strand mooring lines.
VHF radio
1x19 wire of the largest size by the longest length on the boat + a few feet and clamps to fit it
Bolt cutters to cut said wire or any other on the boat
an 8:1 tackle with snatch block rated to said wire
hacksaw and spare blades
one spare of every size block, turnbuckle, etc on the boat
100 feet largest running line on the boat; in addition to the spinnaker sheets and guys at twice the boat's length
rebuild kits for each type of winch and a spare set of pawls for each
2 spare winch handles ( Ahhhh... the familiar skiter, skiter, ploop!!?)
A complete set of sockets and wrenches; US and metric up to the largest size bolt on the boat
a set of US and metric allen wrenches
a set of standard and phillips screwdrivers
3 different sizes of ViseGrips (tm)
a Fiskars hand powered drill and carbide bits
an assortment of SS bolts, nuts and screws to fit the boat
bronze cotter pins and SS toggle pins to fit the boat
a claw hammer, and an assortment of bronze ring nails
A ditty bag for palm, needles, fids, leather, sail tape, etc.

Less the lines and the water about 50# (~20 kg).

[Alan D. Hyde]

The sheet lead and tacks (nails), along with underwater epoxy, are good ideas, and I've seen several cruising boats that had plywood berth panels (under the mattresses) that were removable (could be unscrewed) and thus might be useful in an emergency.

A spirited and resourceful woman like Beryl is a tremendous asset, almost a force of nature.

I've never much enjoyed the company of those "who wouldn't run around the block to save their own ass" (a phrase developed by one of my college room-mates after painful, but instructive, experience).

Alan

P.S. A GREAT book...

[ 02-04-2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Bruce Taylor]

Norm, I was expecting you to recommend keeping a supply of carrots on board.

[Smacksman]

Hi Norm, I have popped in for a read now and again but kept my rubbish to myself.

Beryl was a nurse as I recall and had the theory that any liquid in the bowls stopped them from shrinking and causing more problems.

By inserting salt water downstream of the kidneys overcame the problem of fouling that organ. A bit like salt water clogging up a GorTex fabric.

As you can tell, I'm a medical expert as well!

[Nicholas]

Smacksman,

Unfortunately things are not that simple. Taking sea water rectally, apart from lack of taste and possible social value, is exactly like drinking it. Take a look at this:

http://www.llandudnocoastguard.co.uk/survival_tips_at_sea.htm

Nicholas

[ 02-08-2003, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: Nicholas ]

[Meerkat]

I think rather then the dubious delights of a rectal tube, I'd go for one of those Survivor 35 hand pumped water makers. About the size of a dictionary in it's case I believe.

[Phil Young]

Jeez now that'd have to hurt.

[Cedarhill Boatworks]

My old man always aid that the emergency you are prepared for is the one that will never happen. It has proven true any number of times. In addition to a very comprehensive tool kit and an entire gasket, hose, belt and filter kit for the engine, with duplicates, I have stashed all over the place any number of odds and ends that always seem to come in handy. I do not venture any further out to sea than Block Island lately, but I'll be damned if I want to come up short. Last summer I had to rebuild the fuel shut off for the engine as we drifted aimlessly outbound of Fishers Island. Until I could rebuild the shut off I couldnt start the engine.
Any time I have had to make a repair to anything on the boat that requires a new tool or parts I make sure that the tool and duplicates become part of the cruising package.
My cousin who lives on his boat in the caribbean has a pretty intersting storage regimen. He and his wife stow everything and take a polaroid of the interior. Then they invert the photo and identify what is going to crash around in the event of a serious knockdown or a roll.