Sailing Backward

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hey Ian & John B I know you guys and others are the pro sailors and I know I am still a novice. But today I learned something cool that may help people sailing a small skiff with balanced lug windward performance. I remember there was a thread about windward performance from a skiff with a balanced lug similar to mine. I cant find the thread :( But this morning I had a great time sailing and as usual I always have trouble tacking into the wind and getting the skiff to come about. Its a lot of pulling the sheet tight then building up speed and coming about while leaning on the opposite rail. Sometimes it works but more than not she just stalls into the wind and I have to start the whole process over again. Today I used the outgoing tide to basically do a reverse K turn. I realize this method will only work in waters that have a strong tide. I just pointed into the wind and instead of trying to turn into the wind I let the tide back the boat up and while moving backward I pushed the tiller in the opposite direction I wanted to go and swoosh she fell right in line and zoom I was off. I did it about a dozen times in different gust and it was such a big help. I also have to say having no motor makes you a much better sailor because you have no choice LOL smile.gif

[ 09-26-2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Thad]

One of my favorite stories is Conrad's, The Secret Sharer. I also think this is a good case of applying Bernie Huddleston's sailing instructions: Speed and performance are acquired gradually as you sail and maintained only with concentration and effort. Conditions are always changing and opportunities are always presenting themselves. Sailing is the art of being conscious of these things and using them or letting them go as you please.
--Bernie Huddleston, “Advanced Catboat Sailing for Beginners”, Catboat Association Bulletin #104

[THX712517]

If she's that slow in tacking, perhaps you could consider wearing. Just a thought.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

wearing ????

She is not slow tacking just tacking when you are sailing into the wind

[John Bell]

What Kevin means is that instead of tacking by bringing the bow through the eye of the wind, instead you fall off, jibe, then harden up on the new tack. This is called "wearing ship".

Slow tacking means not that she's slow close hauled, it means she is slow to turn through the eye of the wind and prone to stall out. Also called "missing stays".

One thing that I find helps is to fall off a bit before you tack to build up speed, then tack. Also, I think it's possible to overdo hauling the sheet in as you tack. And finally, on little light boats, it can really help a lot if you move your weight forward to help the stern come around.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

John I have used all those other ways and sometimes they work. I just never knew the proper terms. :D

This reverse move today just seem to work better in today's conditions and as an option if needed to turn through the eye of the wind or "missing stays". See I'm learning smile.gif

[ahp]

Hobie Cat sailors know all about sailing backward with reversed rudders. Sometimes you make you tack, and sometimes you don't.

The fact that cats, and probably your boat too are so light, they just don't carry they way very far when luffed. A jib helps.

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by ahp:
[QB]Hobie Cat sailors know all about sailing backward with reversed rudders. Sometimes you make you tack, and sometimes you don't.

QB]Sailing backwards?

Lotsa times...

....but never on purpose.

[John B]

I ain't no pro sailor Joe.I just crash around until it works :D .
I think the thread you mentioned was all about getting the weight in the right position in the boat. If you sit too far aft there is no bow in the water to grab and give you some bite to turn on. A boat is like a forklift. The front stays put and the back moves around. The end result of that thread( assuming that the boat/rig interaction was right) was to shift the weight forward a bit for the tack.
Try that.
Now.
go aaaaaannnnn. go sailing.

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Thad:
One of my favorite stories is Conrad's, The Secret Sharer. Mine too, but I think that you should explain that the ship is saved because the skipper knows just when to move the rudder from correct for sternways to correct for forward motion by watching the stowaways hat in the water.

Remember that the were both "Conway boys" my earliest memory is of the old HMS Conway (formerly HMS Nile) burning in the Menai Strait.

[Bill Perkins]

Joe there's a trick called Backing the main that works to get you going backwards in that situation regardless of tide .It's also good for backing out of tight spots . Boomed sails are better for this ,but it works without a boom too .

Let's say you're sailing with the sail over the left side of the boat (Starboard tack ).You try to come about but for whatever reason you're left standing still with the boat helplessly stuck pointed straight up wind ( in irons ).Quickly grab the foot of the sail with your forward hand, and keeping it taunt between your hand and the mast , push the sail back out to the left with a stiff arm ; way out till the wind is pushing on the other side of the sail , forcing the boat backward ( reverse the helm -useing a tiller extention) and through the wind , allot like the maneuver you mention but you can do it anywhere .You'll need to be seated about amidships to push the sail out far enough, but that's probably where you need to be anyway if you're having trouble tacking .

Now HWYL: Conrads young captain is saved because the discarded hat alerts him to the fact that the barely moveing ship is gathering sternway .It's then that he reverses helm , saveing the ship and his professional life .That's the greatest short story I've ever read .

[ 09-26-2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Ian McColgin]

Backing out of irons is classic. As you practice, you'll see that it has nothing at all to do with current. How the boat tacks is a matter only of relative motion between boat and water and air. What the shore is doing matters not a whit.

Last week I was sailing a local painter around the Sunfish Worlds, being hosted by Hyannis Yacht Club. One nice sight was how they could create a sort of modified 'luffabilly heave-to' by letting the sail out about normal to the hull and keeping the helm down. Then the boats just make a square drift but are readily brought underweigh again by trimming and helm control. These are the same Sunfish th at have been known to cause small children to cry with their stubbern ability to stay in irons if head into the wind and sail held tight.

You can gather sternway by pushing the sail out at first, but after a bit the sail's venturi will be more important and it will actually halt your sternway.

Timing is everything.

Most passive method is simply to keep the sheet slack and the sail luffing while you steer backwards at least till you're at a near beam reach. Then trim the main just enough to take out the luffing and bring the helm up smartly to stear off. Don't head up into a real beat till you've speed enough.

You can accelerate that a little by pushing the sail out on the desired weather side at the start of the evolution but you still need to let it luff a bit before the boat will turn off the wind enough to sail away.

Had you a jib, backing that would turn you.

Keep playing. It's good.