Postcard synchronicity. Waione and Ngatira

[John B]

Haven't done any friday pics for a while so....

I posted about the link between these 2 old boats once before a couple of years ago perhaps. Ngatira built circa 1904, Waione in 1907. Both are from the same designer ( Chas Bailey) but Ngatira has a bit more of a cruiser form ... Waione perhaps a bit racier and with less room.
I met Steve through classics racing and by coincidence was out taking Waione for a spin one evening when he was out trying Ngatira out. I reckon we closed the deal for the sellerLOL( where's my commission?). Since then we've raced and cruised together and Ngatira is coming up for a big rebuild if Jay Lawrie's maritime/ boatbuilding school comes off.

Anyway, a while back when I bought a big photo of Waione taken in 1912 (at auction) I also got 2 postcards in the package and it's these that I've just 'found' again. I contacted the lady who had owned them and she said that obviously one of the boats was Ngatira... it's marked that way but" what's the other boat?"
Waione of course..... That photo ( as about 20"x 16") hangs in the RNZYS about 20ft away from where the Americas cup stood for a few years recently. :rolleyes:

Waione
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p882867adad462395698fb300c2851694/fb628773.jpg
Ngatira
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pa6109ec24eb12167594989fdcf3c8575/fb628765.jpg
That Ngatira shot is a neat one. heavily reefed, jib brought in on the traveller, dinghy brought aboard for the passage race reach to Kawau island ( she can't be tacked without dropping that dinghy behind )... she's trucking along.

I think I'll make one frame for them both and glaze both sides so the backs can be seen as well

The 2 boats at Gt Barrier Island a couple of years ago
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/p7906e9410113bae6d632c9b266f7e63c/fda75a05.jpg

This is the sort of thing that makes owning an old boat rewarding......

[ 08-14-2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by John B:
Haven't done any friday pics for a while so....

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/p7906e9410113bae6d632c9b266f7e63c/fda75a05.jpg

This is the sort of thing that makes owning an old boat rewarding......oohhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmm thanks John I love it when you supply my desktop graphics! :cool: Im gettin a nice fair collection of your beautifull lady mate... Now you can just keep postin them anytime you like! :cool:

reckon if I ever get myself over to ENZED Id be able to pick her out at anytime and just waltz over and run me hand along her sheer and mutter "gidday Waione you finest of beautiful old ladies..." at which point she would lift and quiver as though alive to the touch then Id mutter "now wheres that old man of yours mmmm? the buggar should have cleaned yer up by now an I reckon I owe him a beer or two for all the fine photos and stories of you hes given me over the years"... and she I swear she would appear to smile as she settles back in anticipation of a mad sail across the harbor that John her faithful capn must now do :cool: ... to show her off as one would of course ;)

Gawd shes a beauty John and proud you should be mate :cool:

[John B]

Aw shucks Shane.

Actually, when you've owned something for as long as I've owned that boat you tend to see the faults . she needs work, she's too small for the family, we're cramped on a cruise and there ain't any room for the "friend" the kids want with them. Still. when I look out in the bay,... she's become special with age. We just have to cope, camping, while our contemporaries are living in luxury...... ;)

Ngatira is going to be good but Steve mate, if you're out there, Mate..., it doesn't matter how big you make that topsail... :D Heh Heh.

[ 08-15-2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Thad]

Good stuff! from both of you there on the other side of our globe.

[John B]

Weeel, I've had the slightly miffed phone call from Steve. :D I think, just quietly, he's going to have a sudden rush of blood to the head and stick a whopping rig in that boat so he can get away from us.

No chance buddy.

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by John B:
Actually, when you've owned something for as long as I've owned that boat you tend to see the faults . she needs work, she's too small for the family, we're cramped on a cruise and there ain't any room for the "friend" the kids want with them. Still. when I look out in the bay,... she's become special with age. We just have to cope, camping, while our contemporaries are living in luxury...... ;) aahh tis a hard life eh mate? tongue.gif

[John B]

It is to be sure.
to be sure.
Oil be tinking.

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by John B:
"I think I'll make one frame for them both and glaze both sides so the backs can be seen as well."

Hi JB, I think that I'd be inclined to 'UV retarding perspex' them. Glass if it breaks damages surfaces.

Warren.

ps, It was a bit amiss of you not to post on Fridays, ;) .

[ 08-18-2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[John B]

Update to this old thread:

Nagateera has been moved into the Maritime Restoration School shed up north and the gutting process has begun. I've seen some pics with the counter deck off too so stuff is a happening.
This may be of interest If you ever wonder about the construction of the typical NZ Edwardian era boat. Looking aft. .. you can see floors, floor shelf, stringer and sheer clamp. Hull is 3 skins up to a total of about 1 1/4" thick I'd expect going by ours. Outer fore and aft skin thicker than the 2 inner diagonals.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid142/p1146982a25fe8fa5336262ba6108ee33/f6a9e2e8.jpg
What I find fascinating is the fact that she's never been painted in places. Common , I'm told. Big Thelma was like that in some locations too.
I am a bit surprised also to see she has only 1 stringer. We have 2 on Waione.
Just in case Steve reads this... 2 stringers is better Pal. Perhaps you'd better add an extra. :D

[ 10-12-2004, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

2 stringers in Waione

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid141/p3743c1fa69ed7b8bfa338e109c487867/f6c3c1b6.jpg
Yup.. thats how a boat should be. ;)
I'd be worried if I only had 1 a side.(sharp intake of breath.......tsk tsk)

[skuthorp]

:D :D
and Hi Shane!

[Thad]

Looks like a BIG stringer! And then there is another well below the sheer? And, what is going on below, half-frames, the then the keel or is that another stringer at sole level? Nice to see the structure and looking so good too! Thanks John.

[Ariel]

Wow! John, what great photos and a good story about the two boats! Thanks for posting.

[John B]

Those half frames... 7 of them I can see in that photo, are the floor timbers Thad. The keel bolts go through them. The floor shelf on Ngatira is high isn't it. Ours is a lot lower relatively with much shorter floors( probably why we have an extra stringer).But that's also to do with development at the time ,and the style of hull. Ngatira is much deeper and fuller despite being roughly the same general dimensions as us. We have a really hard turn to the bilge.

[True Love]

JohnB -

I've been wondering about the pronunciation of the beautiful Waione. In Texan, it would be thought to be pronounced "Way-Own" but I wonder how it sounds in Kiwi? -- TL

[John B]

Hello TL.
As with most languages there's the "right"way and the umm.. developed/colloquial version.

We say it why own ee. all run together ,whyownee.
the correct( maori) pronunciation is more ,why on e. a flatter centre syllable .
Ngatira... how do I write that?
Naahteera.soft G.
when I say Nagateera, I'm just trying to rark up the lurker( Steve) and provoke him into posting. So far I'm not doing too well but I have hopes.

[ 10-13-2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Graeme Forrest]

Just for general info,many years ago an elderly Rarotongan gentleman taught me how to pronounce the NGA syllable common in several Polynesion languages. Say "singer" but stretch the "er" a little, "singaar", now leave the "si" off the front, "ngaar" smile.gif

[martin schulz]

John,
sometimes I wonder if digging in old postcards on fleamarkets, travelling to long gone boatyards or talking to old people (mostly grumbling old salts), just for gathering bits of informations about a boat is half the fun of owning an old boat.

I had an argument with my girlfriend when we traveled to the UK and were spending 2 weeks in a row in maritime museums, harbours, boatyards...
When we came out of the library in the maritime museum in Falmouth (a definete "must") and all shops were closed - especially the one where she had seen "the most beautiful shoes" before - that put a stop to those wonderful "explorer" days ;)

[Dave Hadfield]

What a feeling of history you must have when you're working on Waione! Tremendous! (And it's strange not to see planks down there... )

While not in the same league, I have some photos now of Drake from the grandson of the Builder, taken in the 1950s.

I need to get the scanner set up and post them, amongst others. What the best internet site now to upload these photos to?

[John B]

If you can see them Dave, I suppose Imagestation is still working. :D History.. yeah. Just give me the name of the guy in the steamer who bunted her in the port quarter in 1917. I've got a few words to say to him. ;)

I know what you mean Martin. same here.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

originally posted by John B:


Actually, when you've owned something for as long as I've owned that boat you tend to see the faults . she needs work, she's too small for the family, we're cramped on a cruise and there ain't any room for the "friend" the kids want with them. Still. when I look out in the bay,... she's become special with age. We just have to cope, camping, while our contemporaries are living in luxury...... Yup!

Mind you, not having room for the kids' friends can be a blessing.

[John B]

not having the kids friend....
could be topical. I'm back up out of bed at midnight because of a malicious phone call . Last sat morning's one was at 1 am. This one at 11.30 pm fri night and I was well asleep.
I suspect its one of my daughters aquaintances playing silly buggers. So angry I can't go back to sleep.( so some WB therapy is in order as you can see.)

When our youngest was little we had a cot suspended from the cabin top. ( inside ,LOL) and that way we could stack em 2 high and get an extra in the boat. It was fun and we introduced quite a few wee kids into the joy/ cold wet windy/ miserable times of sailing. One in particular looked a bit green one day and she was told to ensure that anything expelled from her mouth went O/B rather than in the cockpit.
Sure enough, it happened. She ( about 8 or 9 at the time) very scientifically threw up over the side as we were sailing along, was profoundly better for it and was praised and inducted into family legend as the best and neatest thrower upper we have ever had aboard. :D

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Alex, now 9, throws up every time, unless we remember to dose him first. Has not affected his enthusiasm. In fact he's sailing tomorrow on board Nancy Blackett (Arthur Ransome's old Hillyard 7 tonner, the model for the "Goblin")

[Dave Hadfield]

That reminds me of our daughter Kelly. For her, throwing up was a minor expectoration, hardly more than a hick-up. I was always astonished at how rapidly she went back to her book afterwards, because for me, the same situation is a major hydraulic event, always accompanied by much pain and an overwhelming urge for "a nap under an apple tree".

Her standard phrase was: "Dad, could I have my red bucket please?" (We found it much easier and safer to do it into a pail -- less chance of losing daughters that way.)

[John B]

Andrew!.Sailing on Nancy Blackett!! Wait till I tell my boy( He's 9).He's working through the series.He even took 'We didn't mean to go to sea' to school as part of a project.
On a slightly related subject, I bought" The cruise of the Teddy" recently.( It's quite hard to get now). As you probably know,She was the model for the Archer yacht dwg on the hard in GT Northern? (I think it was Gt Northern). Tambs was a friend of Ransomes. She was wrecked in an area we often cruise in . Coincidentally , Steves family( Steve owns Ngatira, one of the subjects of this thread) were there when that happened.They lived at Kawau.
6 degrees of seperation LOL.

Dave, we would use a bucket too if there was any weather at all. We've been pretty lucky that way. None of our kids get the urge for the upchuck unless its fairly fresh.

[ 10-15-2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Stephen]

John and Andrew - I love hearing about all the pros and cons of old boat ownership through you guys and your families. It certainly helps to inspire myself and others - even just knowing that there are others "in the same boat". It can be hard to see past all the faults sometimes - but you know it's all worth it when you look back over your shoulder at the end of a day's sail or project and see just how overwhelmingly beautiful the boat looks...
thanks for the inspiration!

[John B]

Geez Stephen,... Carlotta is a bit sexy isn't she. Cant say I'd ever pick her as a pilot cutter. The ultimate development of type I suspect. Do you know IRIS. I believe shes one( earlier type.. Bow so plumb it almost goes forward at the w/l.LOL)

[ 10-16-2004, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Stephen]

John - I think I've seen a picture of Iris sailing somewhere around the NZ area, but other than that I'm not too familiar with her.
There were at least two other pilot boats from the same yard as Carlotta, and they looked similiar to her. If you have a copy of Muir's "Messing About in Boats" there's a striking resemblence to Muir's pilot boat "Britannia" (if you haven't read this book, find a copy as it's a great read). Her stem is raked back a bit more than some of the other surviving examples. She shares a cutaway bow similar to Alpha or Kindly Light. In the 20's she was converted to a yacht - I think the bulwarks were cut down to give a flatter sheer to her at that point. We plan on replacing them at some point. There's definitely no mistaking her for a pilot boat when you get a look at her scantlings! Everything about her construction is huge! I'll see if I can get some pics up here at some point for you - maybe I'll tag them on occasionally to your Friday pics! :cool:
We have a 5 year plan to get her up to our standards of travelling offshore. This year we are installing a Gardner 3LW (the last time she had an inboard was in the 50's-60's), and reconstructing the elliptical counter stern. In the future we have plans for a new deck and deckbeams, and a new interior. We are trying to plan major projects for the off-season, so as to be able to keep her sailing! She's proven to be a fast boat, has a very light helm on all points of sail, and seems to point very high as well.
In five years we are tentatively planning to voyage offshore - I'd like to sail her to the UK to see her sisters, and take in Duarnenez and Brest too!
Perhaps we can swing past NZ on that voyage to give you a good show of our new stern smile.gif (oh oh! the gauntlet has been thrown!) ;)

[Steveh]

Thanks for that John, what an introduction.

Those bilges look far to clean for my liking. I could eat my dinner out of them... not that I’d like to eat my dinner out of your bilges John.

Interesting about the stringers though. I’d always thought this was normal but with all the crawling around boats recently Ngatira does seem the odd one out. Weight saving perhaps. Certainly hasn’t had an effect on plank movement so is doing the job. Jay does have a concern about the interior skin (about 3/8” thickness) cupping, meaning cavities behind. This could pool water, although there are no signs of dampness, even through the un painted wood.

Jay, up at the NZ Maritime Restoration School is ripping into it. We removed the old iron spinnaker and more interior joinery, as pic shows. Certainly weird sitting down there with it all opened up. Gets you thinking.

We posted notices in boating mags and CYA journal when Ngatira moved in the shed and there has been some interest from people. Hey put an old boat on a hard stand wait for the people to turn up, amazing. We’ve had a call from the daughter of a past owner that did a major renovation in the 60’s, as it is at mooring in this pic. This may prove invaluable with some ‘before’ reference shots.

As for boat speed John.... how many race results do you want me to show you of Ngatira 1st, Waione 2nd or 3rd, or 4th. It’s been a hundred years and I’d hate to think how many races these tow beauties have tussled with each other! Hey I’m happy to race with you John if you tow a bucket behind to compensate for my three bladed prop. And yep that’s going fer sure!

And the best is this old girl turns 100 years old in November.

Sorry can’t post photos... in discussion with John B

[Steveh]

A bit late that posting, plenty of water passed under the stern since the 12th.

About the Iris, I’ve just tempted John in coming up to Opua to celebrate Ngatira turning 100 with a possible sail out on her. She certainly looks great under full sail. John may have seen her last year as he was up in the area cruising during the Christmas hols and she would have been in the Tall Ships Regatta. What surprised me most about her was when I was told she is sheaved in ferro cement! Haven’t seen up close so can’t make any comment.

On the subject of throwing up it reminds me of an Easter cruise out to Great Barrier Island in a friends K class. Same size as Ngatira and Waione but built in 1958. After wallowing in a sloppy sea for hours we got slammed by an easterly coming through the Colville channel. Now, an easterly doesn’t show up often in the Hauraki Gulf and when it does it usual kicks butt.

My wife, Jo, my 9 and 7 yr. old sons were all, and I mean simultaneously, throwing up over the lee cloth. What a sight! I was sitting up on the windward rail loving it. Jo asked if you can be sick twice to which I replied (sounds like lied) “No no , you should be fine. Well that was an understatement, She kept throwing up till we hit smooth water. This will put a smile on John but a phrase Jo spits out on numerous occasions “NEVER AGAIN”

Don’t get me wrong, cruising in the Hauraki Gulf can be fun, but it doesn’t take many prisoners. ;)

[John B]

Sorry for missing your reply about Carlotta Stephen. She really looks like a terrific boat you have there. I'll look on my album for pics of Iris FYI.

Steveh!! the lurker. What a week.. first I set a bait for and hooked up a Ken( very elusive), .. and now I have a Steveh.
Don't you go counting any speed chickens just yet boyo. :D

[John B]

This is IRIS. the pilot cutter.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/pf6bd510f84129d9f391974dda68486ba/f9e69699.jpg
That would be great to get aboard her. how?
Can that be made to happen Steve?

[ 10-19-2004, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Wild Dingo]

Okay yous blokes DONT yous go stutterin to a typical kiwi stop here!! :mad: yous gotta keep throwin such fine pics up and yarnin cause its pure music to me ears! :cool: tongue.gif

Waione... girl of me dreams she be by gar! ;)

Mind you I do likes that salty lady there John boy :cool: ... Steve I reckon since Im so much in lust with Waione Id have a major problem with John if I say too much about your baby Ngatira pure beauty is so hard to find but with yous fellas its a peice of cake! :cool:

[Steveh]

Wild Dingo, it brings a tear to John’s eye when the two girls hoist their sails and go for an outing. Don’t know where John is.. He’s normally sharp as tacks. Mind you he might still have a sore head from the race up the coast. Arohia, which I sometimes crew on finished the race, 35 hours for 130 odd NM, no wind and on the nose would have extended that mileage. John did some smooth talking and convinced the crew on Je t’aime that stopping off at the first watering hole only 25NM into the race to watch the final of the NPC (that’s out local rugby union competition and good selection time for the AllBlacks) and finish off all rations. Better than watching the little Blue penguins pass you by.

And John, the cruise on the Iris is on. Numbers will be restricted to 45 tho. Invite is in the mail.

Still gotta sort out this photo library

[Steveh]

Some progress pics :eek: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid145/p031ce198dff90dbb5269322f37e3afbb/f665a108.jpg

[Steveh]

Thanks John, looks like it's up and running.

How she's looking at the last visit. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid145/p94e583fef3af3dfba3e7d1a846124d12/f665a2b7.jpg

[John B]

Glad you beat the imagestation Steve. ;)
Sign me up for the sail!!I'll be in like a robbers dog mate.So will Kirsty.

Re the coastal. we sailed all night but went nowhere ... somewhere NORTH of Kawau actually.. quite a LOT more than 25 miles. Did the sums .. we would have got in about midnight the next night. So we went back to Gulf Harbour to watch the rugby in a bar.Eat drink watch rugby talk boats eat drink... etc you get the picture.

Nice pictures Steve. sheer looks a bit stuffed in that last one though. 1 stringer... tisk tisk. sigh,.