Paddle Question

[Garrett Lowell]

I need a double paddle for the soon-to-be-finished kayak. I'm strongly leaning toward a Greenland style of paddle, unless someone can convince me otherwise. I don't really have a reason for that choice, I just like the way they look (silly, true, but I've made lots of decisions in my life based on that criteria). Any advice or input from any paddlers? I won't be taking the boat out on anything other than protected waters, really. It's too beamy and flat bottomed for that. Thanks in advance.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

The length and feather angle are critical, and personal, they both need to be matched to the paddler and the particular boat.

Fun things to make.

[ 05-27-2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: P.I. Stazzer-Newt ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

Lets see, I started with a Lendall kit paddle with an aluminum shaft and plywood blades ($29) in 1971. This was soon replaced by a Schaefer Wildwater "S" (wood, about $75) in 1972, then a Kober Moldau whitewater slalom paddle a year later for around $100. I used it for several years, but mostly as a spare because I found a wooden Prijon Leiser (about $125 in 1974 which was an outrageous amount of money for a kayak paddle at the time, but they only brought four of them into the country that year - I'be be eating lunch in a restaurant near a river with it locked in the car and people would actually come into the place and go table to table to find out who owned it and if I wanted to sell it). The Prijon is a super paddle and is still up in the attic. For touring, I bought a pair of Beran hollow-shafted, laminated veneer bladed sprint paddles in about 1975 for about $100 each. Along the way, I also tried a few of those new-fangled fiberglass paddles like Nonas, Sedas and Iliads ($45-75 range). They were pretty tough, but didn't have that friendly feel of wood.

More recently, I bought a Werner Carbon Camano touring paddle ($350) and a two-piece Werner fiberglass Kaui ($250) for a spare. I used them for about four years. So I've spent a fair chunk of money on kayak paddles over the years, but every stroke I took last year was with a highly modified Home Depot cedar 2x4 that cost $6 and a bit of varnish to build - and I'm not going back any time soon. My carbon Camano feels like a dead, blade-heavy stick with two weights stuck on it's ends by comparison.

There are certainly still situations where "euro-style" paddles (skinny shaft, big fat feathered blades)are more appropriate and work better (like sprinting or whitewater) but the more you use a Greenland paddle for touring, the more you question touring with euro-paddles at all. The whole paddling process is more intuitive and feels more natural with the Greenland paddle. You soon start to understand that it's actually a product of centuries of evolution, not a quaint curiosity.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid147/p487395f5f80d072231bc88220c435c93/f6392164.jpg

I rough-out the face side and profile on the band saw and do the rest by eye and by feel with a spoke-shave, finishing-up with the ROS. It takes an afternoon to do all the cutting. I varnish mine, some folks prefer oil. It took a couple tries to find a blade area and shape that I like, but I used this website as a starting point.
http://seacanoe.org/grnpadle.htm
It's without a doubt the best $6 you can spend for kayak equipment.

[hikingchrs]

I am not gonna argue with what Todd has said above, however I have been happy with a Bending Branches paddle that I have had for the last 10 years, I also own a werner carbon fiber with plastic blades as a spare(bought it to replace the Bending Branches but don't like it). The sales person when I bought the brances paddle tried to talk me out of it since it cot $150 and the yak only $300 back in '95 but I still like my paddle so it was money well spent. However talking to the people I paddle with it seems that most of them like their 1st paddle if they buy a decent one seems like after 100,000,000 paddle strokes you get kinda attached to it.
Chris

[Garrett Lowell]

Cool. Thanks P.I., Todd and Chris. I have a nice piece of flat-sawn spruce which will be perfect.

[George Roberts]

Garrett Lowell ---

Any paddle needs to be matched to your paddling style.

I prefer the euro paddles myself. Rolling when hurt is a lot easier.

[Todd Bradshaw]

When you get to our age George, rolling itself hurts! :D The transition from normal paddling position to an extended paddle position is so smooth if you need more rolling power with a Greenland paddle that I don't mind it. My blades are about 32" long and in an extended screw-roll the leverage provided is incredible. Makes a good backup plan in case I blow the first one.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Todd, looking at the photo those blades seem to have a small amount of right feather (20 degrees?), am I right or is that a trick of the light.

Garrett, do you know if you are right-handed or left-handed as a paddler? I know that sounds like a stupid question, but I've met people who didn't know there was a difference - and in 1972-3 I was in a club where 75% of the paddlers were lefties.

[hikingchrs]

Every one I know but me is a right paddler even my girlfreind is who in real life is a leftie. when I bought my kayak nobody told me how to put the paddle together so I put it togheter left and now I can not switch back, when I try I end up up side down.
Chris

[Todd Bradshaw]

They're straight, must just be the lighting. I was originally quite worried about switching from feathers to straight blades after so many years, but the transition seemed perfectly natural. I put a lot of oval in the shafts, full length, so your hands seem to know what direction the blades are pointed without even thinking about it.

In case it helps, this is the rough plan that I developed for our paddles after making and using a few. I might get laughed out of every Inuit village in the north if I showed up with one, but they work for me. Where there is a size range shown, the long dimension is for my paddles (I'm 6'4" tall) and the short dimension is for my wife, who is about 5'6"-5'7" (why is it that I can quote the length and beam of every canoe or kayak I've ever owned from memory but have to guess at how tall my wife is?). Some people shape the blade faces with a more pronounced "V" ridge down the middle. If you really pull hard on these round-faced models (which is fairly rare) they sometimes flutter a bit and the ridge might help prevent it.

My motto is "If in doubt, thin it out!" and the finished paddles are just about as light as our carbon ones. The weight should feel centered, or at least feel like most of it is in the shaft, not out on the blade tips. They have a very lively spring when you lean on one. The short, shoulder transition area at the top of the blade is the trickiest part to carve and probably the highest potential breakage area. I try to maintain the overall volume of wood in cross-section as much as possible through the transition, even though the shape is changing. Hopefully, the result is a paddle that flexes evenly through the shaft/blade transition. The edges of the blade are about 1/4" thick all the way down and at the extreme ends, the entire blade is almost flat with just a hint of a round face and a little thickness flare at the tip for durability. Obviously, these paddles are not meant for rock-bashing, especially when made from cedar, but there are things which can be done to reinforce the tips, if desired.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid170/p252bc30bb986ca73dc28c8f8146d9679/f3f56081.jpg
- length not to scale

[ 05-27-2005, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[Chris Stewart]

Originally posted by Todd Bradshaw:
I used this website as a starting point.
http://seacanoe.org/grnpadle.htm
Another good starting point is:

http://www.greatlakeskayaker.ca/greenlandPaddleMaking.html

[Garrett Lowell]

I love coming back from a few days away and finding even more info on a thread.

P.I., I'm not sure if I'm a right or left paddler, and I didn't even know there was such a thing.

Thanks Todd and Chris Stewart for the additional info and link.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Garrett, if you plan to use a zero-feather paddle, like the ones Todd discusses, then there is no left-right question - you can pick up the paddle any of four ways and its ready to go.

With a Euro-style paddle there is a long loom and two relatively short blades, these are usually "spooned".
When the paddler has the right hand blade in the water with the power face (concave) facing aft - the Left blade has its "power face" either UP (right hander) or DOWN (Leftie).

One benefit claimed for this type is that the air-blade has less wind resistance.

With a symmetrical blade, 90 feather, paddle you can pick up the paddle either way round and carry on.

When the Feather angle is significantly below 90 degrees - or the blade shape is asymmetrical - you must have it the right way round.

Some high-priced sprint blades should not be used for going backwards (they break).

[ 05-31-2005, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: P.I. Stazzer-Newt ]

[FG]

If you do chose a greenland paddle, get with someone who paddles that style or you may become frustrated with the slow speed. They can be wonderful things (I've built about 20), but like any tool, you need the right instruction. It is not as intuitive as it might seem. For long touring, not short sprints, they can be as effective and more comfortable in my experience.

[Paul Reagan]

A site you might find interesting is http://www.qajaqusa.org/. A lot of pretty good info.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

The great debate (http://www.paddles.com/library/feath0.html) on feathering.

While digging that out I found some paddle-porn from a guy I knew a long long time back - Dave Mitchell. (http://www.mitchellpaddles.com/info/pdfs/kayak.pdf)
http://www.mitchellpaddles.com/paddles/kww/img/lg-slasher.jpg