fiberglass to old wooden boat

[gunsmith]

I am assembling information for next spring. When I fiberglass this boat (40' ex fishing boat)I plan on useing 4 layers of glass below the water line and two to the gunnels. I have just found out that I also need to fasten after the first two layers have dried, these layers to the wood with screw or nails. Then I glass over them with my final two layers. How do I handle the only two layers going above the water line? Do I screw after the first layer?

[Bob Smalser]

How's she constructed and of what species?

Carvel cedar over sawn frames?

And what's her condition...why do you feel you need to glass her?

[ 10-28-2003, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Jack Heinlen]

Um...nevermind. I don't have a comment except to ask, do you really want/need to do this? It, typically, causes more problems than it solves in the long run. It can work well, if it's very well done.

[JimD]

gunsmith, you might not get too many replies cuz lotsa folks are a bit tired of talking about this particular controversial subject. See if you can get your hands on WB magazine issue # 168, Oct 2002 and check out the article 'Alternative Wooden Boat Repairs'. Here's a quote that sums up your requirements: "Thirty years ago Allan Vaitses developed a technique for sheathing boats that called for a very substantial layup of 'glass and polyester, along with metal staples or small screws encapsulated in the laminate that helped secure the 'glass to the hull. This method was, and remains, very effective. The secret is that enough 'glass is applied to be independent of the original structure, and that the suspect bond line between the old wood and the new 'glass supplemented by fastenings"

good luck

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Most of the time this is a death knell for a wooden boat. If you want a fibreglass boat, you should consider just buying one... in my mind a sheathed boat is worth nothing afterwards, and probably cost plenty. Just my two cents, but if I see an ad for a boat that has been glassed I cross it off automatically.

[JimD]

A not too old article in Good Old Boat magazine, around April 2003 had an update on a German boat built in the 1920s, sunk three times and in bad shape by the late 70s. It was glassed at that time with fg mat and polyester resin and is doing fine 25 yrs later. About 20 yrs after the fg repair the owner had to install new through hulls for some reason and so had to drill some 'core samples' that showed no sign of delamination or rot in the wood. But the repair job also had included replacing all rotten wood so much of the boat was rebuilt anyway. Presumable the hope is that the fg will prevent new rot in the decades to come. Who knows?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Pay very close attention to Jim's earlier post that mentioned a "very substantial" fiberglass layup. Screws will pull right through one or two layers of fiberglass in a heartbeat unless the glass is very heavy and they aren't much better in shear since the holes in the glass will enlarge easily under any real load. I suspect that getting a hull that will stay together requires a glass layup that starts to approach that of a stand-alone fiberglass hull.

[Bob Adams]

I won't chime in with my personal opinion, but for the "substancial polyester layup", you might want to do a search on "sea flex or c flex".I think that was the name of the process.

[TimothyB]

I think, to clarify this beyond the possibility of error...

If you wanted to FG a wooden boat, then what you need to do is put SHYTELOADS of glass and resin over it, essentially using the hull as a male mold, but not removing the mold. The FG has to be 100% capable of withstanding all of the stresses of the boat as if the wooden hull were not even there.

ALSO the wood has to be kept dry, which means wedge seaming and epoxy sealing her, and careful attention to edge treatments.

All that being said, you can do it -reliably- this way. Many folks have done it different ways and some have succeeded, some have failed.

If you want a good treatise on this and many other renovation techniques, buy JT's book, "Wooden Boat Renovation" available at the wooden boat store.

--T

[NormMessinger]

Ya suppose we will have to call Cleek out of retirement to put this question in perspective?

[gunsmith]

Thanks for the help all. I see many of you are out of date in your thinking with regards to fiberglass over wood. Were I live we fiberglass for the purpose of survival, both for the boat and for ourselves. Seal hunting, fishing and breaking ice between iceburgs to get to open water is a way of life for us. I will probably be the only one with a boat for pleasure and not for work in my area. All of the boats that I am aware of in our area are glass over wood and are the most insurable because of there tremendouse strength. In addition after glassing they all lose weight because of the drying out of the wood. JimD, I forgot all about staples, thanks! smile.gif With the fact all I want to do is protect the wood (B.C. Fir carvel planking)for years to come both from decay and from damage the light layers of glass with staples should do it. I might have to add an aditional layer above the water line to accomodate my fastners. If I remember right there is a staple made with the points faceing in oposite directions that holds even better than conventional staples. I wonder if it is available in stainless? As for the wooden boat part of this project, the rest of the boat including the deck will be kept as original. :D

[N. Scheuer]

Having sheathed two boats in fiberglass, I would recommend this approach only as a last resort.

My first attempt, as a teenage co-owner in partnership with my best friend, was to prolong the life of the wooden Snipe, #7910, NIKE (a ombination of the first two letters of our names, Nick and Kent) for a few more years of sailing. We were moderately successful, and I was even able to sell the boat after ten years of sailing her.

My second attempt was to rescue a wooden canoe which was headed for a bonfire. I gave the fiberglass canoe to my Father thirty years ago, and he used it with great pleasure. I recently hauled the same canoe over to my daughter, Laura's home for her and the kids to enjoy for a few more years.

Aesthetically the canoe is an abysmal failure. But how do we measure the joy that old pile of cedar firewood has brought to our family over the years?

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

PS: sheathing the old NIKE in fiberglass taught this particular life-long sailor volumes about how to handle polyester and epoxy-fiberglass laminates; knowlege which has proven extreemly valkuable over the years since through a succession of fiberglass sailboats.

Moby Nick

[Todd Bradshaw]

With the fact all I want to do is protect the wood (B.C. Fir carvel planking)for years to come both from decay and from damage the light layers of glass with staples should do it. Since it's very possible to hit a rock and punch a hole through or rip off or delaminate a big chunk of double fiberglass sheathing on a canoe hull. I can't figure out how on earth you expect it to add any noticable damage resistance to a 40' boat? Fiberglass isn't magic. Two layers of lightweight glasscloth, properly saturated with resin is no thicker than your average blow-molded plastic milk jug and probably doesn't have equal tear strength or abrasion resistance. I doubt it's even strong enough to stabilize the plank seams and keep them from moving and fracturing it.

Maybe I'm one of those who is "out of date with my thinking" but I've been sheathing wooden boats with fiberglass for almost 30 years and as far as I can tell it's strength and the ability of a couple thin layers to protect wood from damage hasn't really changed very much.

[Bob Smalser]

My concern revolves around flatsawn DF's significant movement in shrink-and-swell cycles...over a third again more than cedar.

There may be a lot of short-lived commercial boats up there done that way, and epoxy, while expensive opposed to polyester, is pretty flexible.

But I strongly suspect that the bond between plank and fabric will fail, with dramatic affect to the boat's longevity.

Not to mention expense....dunno what's wrong with hauling, reefing, caulking, paying and painting...that's the way the boat was designed and a lot cheaper than what you propose.

[NormMessinger]

Not only out of date but totally ignorant to boot. Tiz I of whom I speak.

So, Gunsmith, how would the folks who know about glassing wooden hulls in your area fasten the glass to the wood when one only needs two layers?

Two layers of glass, to an old engineer from a threshing crew circa the 1940's, who has in his latter years played like a boat builder, in Nebraska of all places, would be laid down with 6 oz cloth. You folks must use something more like 1/4" glass. Tell us more of the technique please.

[seawolf]

Mr. Gunsmith:
While others have commented with some success on the encapsulation of wood, I have seen too many of
these projects literally disintegrate due to the encapsulated wood being too wet and the retention of that moisture.
Complete encapsulation leads to the wood becoming "mush" inside a fiberglass jacket. Not much strength or re-sale value there!!
In an earlier post you say:
"In addition after glassing they all lose weight because of the drying out of the wood."
How did you determine the starting wood/hull weight and moisture content?
Exactly (emphasis on "exactly")how did you determine they lose weight? And:
How does the moisture evaporate so the wood can dry out when it is encapsulated in fiberglass and epoxy?
Just what exactly (further emphasis on "exactly") is your cloth weight and construction and what types of resin are you using?
As Norm says: "tell us more".
I'm another old codger (sorry Norm) willing to learn some new tricks.
Thanks

[NormMessinger]

"I'm another old codger (sorry Norm) ..."

Can't be helped I find. But ya know, my dad would only be 114 years old if he were still alive so I guess there is a limit.

[gunsmith]

NormMessinger: That is my question since up here we do not normaly use only two layer. How do I fasten it successfuly? Or is that not a possibility? Possibly the answer is to us epoxy?
Seawolf: It is never a good thing to ever encapsulate wood entirely, not even when painting. In this respect we agree. However my intention is only to cover the outside of my hull and not the inside. This has to be left exposed to breathe. The water line question is simple. In my area which is a fishing area for shrimp and crab the boats are large. A drager which is a minimum of 65' would dry out enough to change her water line by up to and in some cases more than 6". When the first few boats tried the glassing this was a surprise to everyone. Before the process of glassing water lines are always marked in order to replace them. After about a season the lines invariably had to be lowered. This, in spite of the additional weight of the glass. I am not saying the glass over wood hulls are indestructable only that they are better than steel or wood only. Last spring we still lost a half dozen boats in the ice. As compared to years ago when only wood was the norm that would have been dozens more when the ice moves in on you. These boats in most cases now can stand a fair bit of crush of ice before they are damaged

[NormMessinger]

What weight glass do they use Gunsmith? Do they not bed it in epoxy? If no, perhaps that's why the layers need to be mechanically attached.

I guess if I were to do as you plan I'd staple the two layers above the water line and add one more layer of light, 6oz glass.

(But see my Curriculum Vitae above)

[gunsmith]

NormMessinger:
You surmise correctly, they do not bed in epoxy. It does appear that a third layer might be the answer for above the water line. I'm not sure the individual weights of each layer but in total and on average about 1" is added at the water line with more to the keel and less to the gunnel. The bow however gets substantialy more with additional reenforcing to accomodate protection from the early season ice.

[NormMessinger]

WOW! 1" of glass it totally beyond both my own experience and anything I have read anywhere. I'd bet it is to most everyone else here. That's a whole new boat on the outside of the old one.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Bob Adams:
I won't chime in with my personal opinion, but for the "substancial polyester layup", you might want to do a search on "sea flex or c flex".I think that was the name of the process.For some eye opening information, use GOOGLE and search for c-flex fiberglass planking. You could start a revolution up there in Newfoundland.

[gunsmith]

Yes, now you see my problem. We are familiar with large amounts of glass being added but not so with a simple sheathing job. Under 1" and more you can hide lag bolts but what do you do when you have to hide fastners under two thin sheathing layers or possibly three. I have been informed about a product called "vulchem" that may solve this problem were I won't have to use any fastners under my polyester. But the alternative seems to be epoxy for my layers above the water line.

[NormMessinger]

Well, I came to conclude that boats in Newfoundland might be build a bit differently than those in Nebraska and that I really had no business sticking my nose into this discussion unless I knew more about it. But I sure was curious. So I called a former participant's attention to this thread. Here is what he had to say about the practice of glassing over wood as is done in Newfoundland.


What he is proposing is common practice in Newfoundland. Most who are opposing his doing so know absolutely nothing about the regional conditions that he is operating in and are lecturing from a platform of ignorance. To explain this egregious statement of mine, I'll give my take on a.) problems with 'glassing a wooden hull, b.) describe Newfoundland fishing boats, then c.) explain why 'glassing Newf fishing boats in a 'good thing'.

The process of 'glassing a carvel wooden hull has gained a poor reputation based on the missteps taken in years gone by. The fundamental problems arose from the 'glass not adhering to the wooden planks with enough tenacity to resist delaminating, which created voids between the 'glass and the wood. These voids eventually filled with water which rotted the wood. (Interestingly, the water in these void spaces was usually fresh, even in a salt water environment, which exacerbated the rotting process. It is presumed that this was due to either the water supply coming from the entrained moisture in the wood itself, or that the fibreglass acted in the same manner as the permeable membrane in a desalinator and prevented the salt molecules from penetrating the 'glass sheathing.) The problem with adhesion was caused by improper resin selection and movement of the substrate. Polyester resin was, and is, the goop of choice for FRP lay-up because it is cheap and relatively non-toxic. However, it is a long-chain polymer and it's adhesion properties are compromised by that. The polymer chains are so large that they cannot infiltrate the pores of wood and form a mechanical bond with the wood surface, so the resin "sticks" to the wood by electro-static adhesion in much the same manner that plastic film sticks to a window pane, and is just as easily peeled off. All wood swells and shrinks as it gains and loses moisture content, and this change is most pronounced across the grain rather than with it, resulting in the greatest dimensional change occurring across the width of a plank. The wood planks underlying the 'glass are usually somewhat wide (builders like this because wider planks means less work in planking-up), so the greatest stress on the 'glass-to-hull adhesion was in the middle of the planks. Ergo, the wider the plank, the more likely the bond line failure. Added to this recipe for disaster was the common practice of laying up glass on a boat when the exterior was dry to the touch. This failed to take into consideration that the wood planks still were at about 25 - 30% moisture content internally, and when the source of outside water was removed by 'glassing the hull the planks dried out by exuding their excess moisture through their surfaces inside the hull. Subsequently they shrank, generating huge sheer loads on the bond between wood and resin, and eventually the bond breaks and voids appear through delamination. How to stop this phenomena? Well, if the two culprits are poor mechanical bonds and excessive substrate movement, these are the things to fix. Better mechanical bonding has been achieved by creating resins that are not so long-chain, such as epoxies. Reducing substrate movement can be achieved by making the plank widths smaller which results in less per-plank movement; this is called strip-planking. Plywood is also very dimensionally stable because the grain of the veneers is oriented in a near-constant direction due to how it is manufactured, and this is why it performs so well as a hull material when sheathed in 'glass.

Traditional Newfoundland fishing boats are a fascinating subject. They have evolved in a truly brutal environment of violent seas, inhospitable rocky harbours, wildly erratic freeze-thaw cycles, low-technology boatbuilding practices, and poor building materials, and yet are eminently seaworthy and, to some eyes, beautiful working craft. The local supply of timber is mostly black spruce and hackamatack and of low quality and stunted size, resulting in narrow planks on bent frames and sawn crooks. Winter is so inhospitable to water activity due to sea ice, violent storms, and bitter cold that most boats are hauled out for five to seven months at a time, ensuring that their wet/dry shrink/swell cycles reach their extreme limits. Most Newf fisheries are carried out utilizing big, hard gear; steel crab traps, fixed net systems using many anchors and heavily weighted nets, and bottom trawls with steel doors and rakes; all gear that is constantly banging heavily on the hull as it is being hauled aboard in rough seas and constantly abrading and smashing hull planks and rubrails. These factors coupled with the constant beating, abrasion, and pounding of use around rocks and ice created a situation where the average lifespan of a traditional wooden boat was normally twelve to fifteen years, but often as little as eight. Let me make this clear - there are NO old Newfoundland hulls! Using American yacht standards of longevity as a yardstick to measure Newfoundland boat quality makes as much sense as Marie Antoinette's reply to the question of starving Parisian citizens.

In the situation described above, if the addition of 'glass sheathing extended the life of a hull by five years it was seen as a Godsend, and any speeding up of rot couldn't be any worse than the daily abuse of the hull by other means so therefore did not affect the normal working lifespan of the boat. Fortunately, there are several layers of silver lining in the clouds over Newf traditional boats being 'glassed. Because of the unavailability of wide planking stock, Newf boats are tantamount to being strip-built (but don't say that to a Newf, 'cause strip built implies a PEI boat, and they are an anathema in the Newfoundland fishery - too lightly built and the wrong shape to be effective in Newf waters), so plank movement is minimal, reducing the risk of bond failure between the 'glass and hull. Most boats are 'glassed in the spring when the weather is half-ways decent but the ice and spring gales make it unpalatable to go to sea, so the boat is as dry as it's going to get after it's long winter haul-out. The drier the hull is, the more likely that the shrinkage after applying 'glass sheathing will be minimal, again reducing the risk of bond failure between the 'glass and hull. Add epoxy as the resin medium to these advantages and you have a very good chance that the addition of 'glass to a traditional hull will extend, rather than retard, the lifespan of a boat. Finally, add mechanical fasteners such as staples or screws to the application, and you have a true composite construction medium that takes advantage of the best features of the local conditions while ameliorating the worst. Regional adaptation at its best. The last wild card is the question of how much 'glass to apply. The amount of upwards on a full inch as mentioned in the WBF thread seems excessive when considered only as a sheathing to keep water out, but when you look at it as armour plating to resist the impacts of forcing your way through a cove full of thousand-pound pans of sea ice to get out to your fishing gear, or to survive the blow of a submerged three-hundred-pound crab trap hitting the bottom planks when the boat falls off a wave on top of it as it is being hauled to the surface, or the occasional bump of the keel on a submerged basalt rock (cleverly called "sunkers" by Newfs) as you make your way back into your cove in rough weather and fog so thick that you need radar to take a leak, and you begin to appreciate that it is not just waterproofing the hull we are speaking about here.

In closing this tirade, a few random comments about the WBF participant's outlook on this subject: First, a rhetorical question; why are people who so readily accept putting 'glass on their ply and strip boats that they build in their garage so vehemently opposed to putting 'glass on a boat built by somebody else? D'ya think that maybe there are some technical questions related to this that are at the moment going unasked? Second, why are people so willingly ignorant of the possibility that a non-workable technology in their part of the world might be wholly adequate in another environment? After all, a snowmobile is pretty useless in Dallas, but you don't want to be without one in Inuvik.

(clip)
Um, I think I was guilty of wanting to help when what I pictured as the problem was so far from my experience that I should have kept my mouth shut (or fingers still, as it were). Lesson learned.

Without any questioning of the expectations, current condition, or use of the boat and possession of theoretical and hands-on knowledge of the subject pertinent to the specific conditions being considered, broad and generalizing statements as given in reply to Gunsmith's query are just so much smoke and noise.

I leave the author's rant in for what is worth to The Forum. I won't stop trying to help but I will keep his wisdom in mind.

An inch of glass! WOW.

Good luck Gunsmith.

[Bob Smalser]

"(B.C. Fir carvel planking)"

Sounds fine to me Norm, but DF carvel from British Columbia (usually wide, thick and accordingly flatsawn in F/V's) isn't the narrowish spruce strip planking described by your friend.

[NormMessinger]

LOL (as Cleek would say). No I suppose it isn't. It aint the same as the Cottonwood grown around here. Fortunatly we don't have to build boats from it. I get my Sitka Spruce from Anticortes but I'm on the Federal Dole and can afford shipping. I probably couldn't if I had to eak a living out in marginal fishing.

It is pretty amazing how folks effectively adapt to extremely harsh conditions. I doubt I'll ever get off my lazy butt to do so but I'd love to see the boats and boat builders in Newfoundland first hand.

[Gerald]

Norm
Too your friend and the comments you made insert here ( ) ( ) ( ) the sound of hands clapping together. Very well said. But damn 1" thick?
Gerald Niffenegger

[gunsmith]

Thanks NormMessinger:
There is nothing more I can add except I'm sure anyone who reads that now has a better understanding including myself. I was a little surprised at the explanation with regards to the planking as to the reason the process we use here work, but it does. By the way if anyone is interested I have a few pictures from last year during the beginning of the season breaking through some rough conditions that closed in on us and some of the small seal boats. Believe me it justifies the money spent on glassing our boat when I look back on those photos. smile.gif

[NormMessinger]

Pictures. Yes, please.

[steve sparhawk]

One inch may seem like a lot, as SOME experience may indicate, and on a small boat it certainly would be. I'd expect that, on one of these fishing boats, it would not appear to be much. Three layers of what is on our boats would seem like an awfully thin onion skin to theirs.

When talking with the Gougeons a few years ago, the single factor that they focused on was that failures of glass-skinned boats was almost always the result of the boats having not been ventilated properly and moisture from the INSIDE was always the culprit and the "problem" boat would have failed under the conditions in which it was found even without the glass. Of course, too many folks have been scared by the failure of an older job, most certainly a poly job --and the "rest of the story" probably included several other fatal mistakes in the application. If we look at the whole story of some of these failures, we would probably all agree that it wasn't the glass that was the problem. We are too eager to blame the glass sheathing when there are most always additional factors that were violated.

Your "scource" certainly covered the subject and is a great reference to remember whenver this subject comes up again--next week.

Thanks for sharing. :D

[davef]

Gunsmith,

I don't mean this to be disrespectful and I don't know much about this topic, but I struggle to see how "drying" wood would change a waterline on a 65' boat by 6". If my simple math is correct, that's a displacement change of around 15,000 - 17,000 lbs? Am I missing something here? It seems as if something else must be at play here.

Dave

[Todd Bradshaw]

I can see where an inch of fiberglass would make one hell of a tough boat, but I'm still trying to figure out how that relates to the idea which has been put forth several times in this thread - that of sheathing with a couple layers of lightweight glass. Even a couple layers of biaxial fabric or 1.5 oz mat laminated to 24 oz. roving would be lucky to yield a total laminate thickness of 1/8", once it's properly saturated.

Obviously a laminate 1/8" thick (or more likely a whole lot less - two layers of 6 oz. for example, yields a layer thinner than a dime) is not going to protect the hull even remotely the way that a 1" thick layer does and it isn't going to hold metal fasteners worth a damn. Has the layup schedule changed or did I miss something?

[htom]

An inch-thick layer of epoxy and fiberglass fabric sounds like a great many layers of fiberglass. Epoxy, fiberglass fabric, and ... ?

[gunsmith]

davef: I'm not sure on your calculations but they seem pretty close. The drying process is a long one of about 16 months. If you have been up close to a dragger you would see the massiveness of them. Most are 40 from the keel to the bow and another 10' to the roof of the pilot house. There is a tremendouse amount of wood to soak up moisture over the years. As well they ride low in the water because of there gear and cargo. This imparts moisture deep into the wood. It might not be a 6" rise in all cases but pretty close.
The point in my case was the oposite of what we do on a regular base here and that is "not" to protect the boat from the unavoidable collision and entrapment by ice. All I want to do is smooth the hull and provide a water tite minimal maintainence hull. Through this string I now have several very good options to follow up on. smile.gif

[Todd Bradshaw]

OK, that makes more sense. Might be worth doing some testing though. A plank seam made from two pieces of stock that heavy is quite likely to move enough just from natural heating and cooling to easily fracture a couple layers of light cloth.

[Bob Smalser]

The postings are appreciated...it's an education.

But I'd sure go find me a large F/V up there that was planked in imported, wide, flatsawn DF then glassed as you describe...and go talk to the owner.

I suspect the boat Norm's friend is describing and your boat are two different critters in regards to wood movement.

Flatsawn DF imported from B.C. in wide planks will move a whole lot more than strip-planked or narrow-planked Black Spruce....perhaps from 15-30 pct more under your severe conditions.

With all the expense a full inch of glass and epoxy will be, I'd be thinking in terms of a system that allowed those planks to move independent of the glass....I've heard of them, but am ignorant of the details.

[ 11-04-2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[newf]

Gunsmith,waddayaat?just a couple of comments .I too am from Newfoundland(Conception Bay),and it is very common practice to sheath an old boat(10+yrs.)with glass.Just as you say,with 2 layers of glass then wafer head srews the 2 more.Though you won't get a yacht finish or nothin.Also,could it be you meant to say BALSAM FIR.?not B.C. Fir.that being the local stuff.In regards to the comments on its strength.It's really more for abrassion resistance not structure,as the existing hull is the structure.and you won't punch a hole in one of our boats,they're way over-built.Though they say it's not RIGHT,we all(newfs) know it works very well.For us. ;)

[NormMessinger]

What weight glass? Cloth or matt? What resin?

[gunsmith]

NewF Hi neighbour :D
No I did not make a mistake. The boat was built in Tabatcher on the mainland. In fact I was told when I bought the boat it was oak. In a previouse life I had to identify different types of wood including how they are sawn. In this case it is B.C. fir but it seems to be all 1/4 sawn which is a real plus over it being oak. Also I have every intention of having a glass smooth almost mould type finish when I'm done. Who ever built this hull new what they were doing and the wood is beautifuly layed with a very smooth chine. As yet I have not determined what weight of glass I will be using. This will be figured out after I decide on the process above the water line. Below is not going to be a problem. NormMessinger: I will prepair the pictures and you will have them about the first of next week. I know you will enjoy them. Also there is a dragger being glassed at the marine center right now. I will get photos of it as well for a later date.

[ion barnes]

Thanks for the facts as they relate to the industrial version. What could be phrased as 'the reat of the story' Thanks Norm.

I had a passing experience with some small harbour tugs of wood that had exceeded their life span but the decision was made to sheath them with steel plate.

The plates were shaped and spiked to the hulls and the heads were welded to the plate. Holes were bored in the plates and pipe nipples were welded on. Hoses would be attached and hot mastic was pumped in to fill the voids and seams.

In one instance, a chief engineer came up on deck and screamed at the yard foreman, that his shaft coupling was out of alignment, but was curtly told to wait till the otherside was done. True enough, it came back close enough. Nipples cut off and plugged and back to work. Thats Ruff an Ready boat maintenance 101

[THE VICTORIA]

Gunsmith break out your old National Fisherman mags. It was in one this year I cant remember the month .A leaky carvel plank shrimper had pre warmed 5200 troweled on ,then glassed over.The wet boat helped the 5200 cure but still let the boat move and twist at sea under its new shell .I will continue to look for my old issue that explains the whole prosses .

[TimothyB]

Originally posted by THE VICTORIA:
Gunsmith break out your old National Fisherman mags. It was in one this year I cant remember the month .A leaky carvel plank shrimper had pre warmed 5200 troweled on ,then glassed over.The wet boat helped the 5200 cure but still let the boat move and twist at sea under its new shell .I will continue to look for my old issue that explains the whole prosses .I'm gonna bet that it was 5100 and not 5200. 5200 dries pretty solid. 5100 stays 'gooey' and never completely cures.

--T

[Donn]

I'm gonna bet that it was 5100 and not 5200. 5200 dries pretty solid. 5100 stays 'gooey' and never completely cures. Are you thinking of 4200?

The idea of troweling either one on a boat boggles the wallet!

[THE VICTORIA]

:D Found it march 03 .Yes 3m 5200 heated in a crawfish boiler .After sanding the hull down to bare wood . they used notched masonary trowels to spread a thin layer of 5200 .The boat is 59 x 19 must be alot of spreading.Then they press on the glass and roll out the air bubles.Then the glass is wetted out with polyester.They say the hull was planked with cypress and they have covered gaps as large as a 1/4 inch with biaxial cloth to save sanding .Good old southern ingenuity!!

[gunsmith]

Victoria: I have been looking at that material and am waiting to have the info packs arrive. I'm hopping I will not have to go that route due to the cost. I think epoxy will do an equally good job especialy since I am stripping to bare wood. I think I am also going to take a step back from sheathing with anything above the water line and examine the possibility of paint.

[Bob Smalser]

....a step back from sheathing with anything above the water line and examine the possibility of paint. Quartersawn DF will behave much better for your purpose than flatsawn....and I suspect the less surface you tie down with epoxy, the fewer problems you'll have.

The down side of quartersawn is that it can easily crack via misapplication of fasteners...so be careful with your pilot hole size and placement of new holes.

[ 11-11-2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]