McCain's Reply to Carter

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  • WTB
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2001
    • 25

    McCain's Reply to Carter

    Sen John McCain Op-Ed article says US is right to disarm Iraq by destroying regime of Saddam Hussein, with or without authoriziation of United Nations Security Council; drawing (M)


    The Right War for the Right Reasons
    By JOHN MCCAIN

    WASHINGTON — American and British armed forces will likely soon begin to disarm Iraq by destroying the regime of Saddam Hussein. We do not know whether they will have the explicit authorization of veto-wielding members of the United Nations Security Council. But either way, the men and women ordered to undertake this mission can take pride in the justice of their cause.

    Critics argue that the military destruction of Saddam Hussein's regime would be, in a word, unjust. This opposition has coalesced around a set of principles of "just war" — principles that they feel would be violated if the United States used force against Iraq.

    The main contention is that we have not exhausted all nonviolent means to encourage Iraq's disarmament. They have a point, if to not exhaust means that America will not tolerate the failure of nonviolent means indefinitely. After 12 years of economic sanctions, two different arms-inspection forces, several Security Council resolutions and, now, with more than 200,000 American and British troops at his doorstep, Saddam Hussein still refuses to give up his weapons of mass destruction. Only an obdurate refusal to face unpleasant facts — in this case, that a tyrant who survives only by the constant use of violence is not going to be coerced into good behavior by nonviolent means — could allow one to believe that we have rushed to war.

    These critics also object because our weapons do not discriminate between combatants and noncombatants. Did the much less discriminating bombs dropped on Berlin and Tokyo in World War II make that conflict unjust? Despite advances in our weaponry intended to minimize the loss of innocent life, some civilian casualties are inevitable. But far fewer will perish than in past wars. Far fewer will perish than are killed every year by an Iraqi regime that keeps power through the constant use of lethal violence. Far fewer will perish than might otherwise because American combatants will accept greater risk to their own lives to prevent civilian deaths.

    The critics also have it wrong when they say that the strategy by the United States for the opening hours of the conflict — likely to involve more than 3,000 precision-guided bombs and missiles in the first 48 hours — is intended to damage and demoralize the Iraqi people. It is intended to damage and demoralize the Iraqi military and to dissuade Iraqi leaders from using weapons of mass destruction against our forces or against neighboring countries, and from committing further atrocities against the Iraqi people.

    The force our military uses will be less than proportional to the threat of injury we can expect to face should Saddam Hussein continue to build an arsenal of the world's most destructive weapons.

    Many also mistake where our government's primary allegiance lies, and should lie. The American people, not the United Nations, is the only body that President Bush has sworn to represent. Clearly, the administration cares more about the credibility of the Security Council than do other council members who demand the complete disarmament of the Iraqi regime yet shrink from the measures needed to enforce that demand. But their lack of resolve does not free an American president from his responsibility to protect the security of this country. Both houses of Congress, by substantial margins, granted the president authority to use force to disarm Saddam Hussein. That is all the authority he requires.

    Many critics suggest that disarming Iraq through regime change would not result in an improved peace. There are risks in this endeavor, to be sure. But no one can plausibly argue that ridding the world of Saddam Hussein will not significantly improve the stability of the region and the security of American interests and values. Saddam Hussein is a risk-taking aggressor who has attacked four countries, used chemical weapons against his own people, professed a desire to harm the United States and its allies and, even faced with the prospect of his regime's imminent destruction, has still refused to abide by the Security Council demands that he disarm.

    Isn't it more likely that antipathy toward the United States in the Islamic world might diminish amid the demonstrations of jubilant Iraqis celebrating the end of a regime that has few equals in its ruthlessness? Wouldn't people subjected to brutal governments be encouraged to see the human rights of Muslims valiantly secured by Americans — rights that are assigned rather cheap value by the critics' definition of justice?

    Our armed forces will fight for peace in Iraq — a peace built on more secure foundations than are found today in the Middle East. Even more important, they will fight for the two human conditions of even greater value than peace: liberty and justice. Some of them will perish in this just cause. May God bless them and may humanity honor their sacrifice.

    John McCain, a Republican, is a senator from Arizona.
  • WTB
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2001
    • 25

    #2
    Carter's Letter to the editor (NYT) on Sunday

    Ex-Pres Jimmy Carter Op-Ed article discusses criteria for just war and holds substantially unilateral United States attack on Iraq would not be just; drawing (M)

    By JIMMY CARTER

    TLANTA — Profound changes have been taking place in American foreign policy, reversing consistent bipartisan commitments that for more than two centuries have earned our nation greatness. These commitments have been predicated on basic religious principles, respect for international law, and alliances that resulted in wise decisions and mutual restraint. Our apparent determination to launch a war against Iraq, without international support, is a violation of these premises.

    As a Christian and as a president who was severely provoked by international crises, I became thoroughly familiar with the principles of a just war, and it is clear that a substantially unilateral attack on Iraq does not meet these standards. This is an almost universal conviction of religious leaders, with the most notable exception of a few spokesmen of the Southern Baptist Convention who are greatly influenced by their commitment to Israel based on eschatological, or final days, theology.

    For a war to be just, it must meet several clearly defined criteria.

    The war can be waged only as a last resort, with all nonviolent options exhausted. In the case of Iraq, it is obvious that clear alternatives to war exist. These options — previously proposed by our own leaders and approved by the United Nations — were outlined again by the Security Council on Friday. But now, with our own national security not directly threatened and despite the overwhelming opposition of most people and governments in the world, the United States seems determined to carry out military and diplomatic action that is almost unprecedented in the history of civilized nations. The first stage of our widely publicized war plan is to launch 3,000 bombs and missiles on a relatively defenseless Iraqi population within the first few hours of an invasion, with the purpose of so damaging and demoralizing the people that they will change their obnoxious leader, who will most likely be hidden and safe during the bombardment.

    The war's weapons must discriminate between combatants and noncombatants. Extensive aerial bombardment, even with precise accuracy, inevitably results in "collateral damage." Gen. Tommy R. Franks, commander of American forces in the Persian Gulf, has expressed concern about many of the military targets being near hospitals, schools, mosques and private homes.

    Its violence must be proportional to the injury we have suffered. Despite Saddam Hussein's other serious crimes, American efforts to tie Iraq to the 9/11 terrorist attacks have been unconvincing.

    The attackers must have legitimate authority sanctioned by the society they profess to represent. The unanimous vote of approval in the Security Council to eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction can still be honored, but our announced goals are now to achieve regime change and to establish a Pax Americana in the region, perhaps occupying the ethnically divided country for as long as a decade. For these objectives, we do not have international authority. Other members of the Security Council have so far resisted the enormous economic and political influence that is being exerted from Washington, and we are faced with the possibility of either a failure to get the necessary votes or else a veto from Russia, France and China. Although Turkey may still be enticed into helping us by enormous financial rewards and partial future control of the Kurds and oil in northern Iraq, its democratic Parliament has at least added its voice to the worldwide expressions of concern.

    The peace it establishes must be a clear improvement over what exists. Although there are visions of peace and democracy in Iraq, it is quite possible that the aftermath of a military invasion will destabilize the region and prompt terrorists to further jeopardize our security at home. Also, by defying overwhelming world opposition, the United States will undermine the United Nations as a viable institution for world peace.

    What about America's world standing if we don't go to war after such a great deployment of military forces in the region? The heartfelt sympathy and friendship offered to America after the 9/11 attacks, even from formerly antagonistic regimes, has been largely dissipated; increasingly unilateral and domineering policies have brought international trust in our country to its lowest level in memory. American stature will surely decline further if we launch a war in clear defiance of the United Nations. But to use the presence and threat of our military power to force Iraq's compliance with all United Nations resolutions — with war as a final option — will enhance our status as a champion of peace and justice.

    Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, is chairman of the Carter Center in Atlanta and winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize.

    Comment

    • Andrew Craig-Bennett
      Who?
      • Aug 1999
      • 28502

      #3
      Two good commentaries by two men, each of whom I admire and respect.

      Unfortunately I am no further forward. I still cannot make my mind up.
      IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

      Comment

      • Scott Rosen
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2000
        • 5390

        #4
        Jimmy Carter wrote that to be a "just war",
        Its violence must be proportional to the injury we have suffered.
        In Carter's view, no pre-emptive military action could ever be justified. We would have to suffer injury before we could attack.

        That's where he loses me.

        Comment

        • LeeG
          Senior Member
          • May 2002
          • 73012

          #5
          Scott, how does he lose you there?

          Comment

          • SelfSinkingFlatiron
            Nekulturny apparatchik
            • Jun 2000
            • 600

            #6
            Lee, by those lights we'd have had to call off World War II right around the end of the Battle of Midway.

            If you must go to war, your violence must be sufficient to destroy the ability and will of the enemy to resist. No other yardstick applies.
            This was no ordinary chicken. This was evil manifest.

            Comment

            • LeeG
              Senior Member
              • May 2002
              • 73012

              #7
              Ken,,I'm not advocating a passive eye for an eye posture until one is hit on the head by an imminent threat, simply curious to know if Scott is attempting to discredit a 9/11 to Iraq proprotionality argument as postured by Carter.

              Comment

              • Scott Rosen
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2000
                • 5390

                #8
                What Ken said. If you adhere to the notion that your violence must be proportional to theirs, then you will be in a state of constant, unresolved warefare forever, a la Israelis and Palestinians.

                In my opinion, you fight a war to redress an injustice and prevent future harm. You don't have to wait until the other side attacks first. Once you decide to go to war, you must plan it to win and you must plan to do it fast, consistent with concern for the protection of non-combatants.

                War is quicker and more humane when the force is not proportional; in other words when one side has the ability to completely overwhelm the other. If you look at the course of war over the years, you will see that the greatest number of civilian (and military) casualties occurred in wars which were drawn out in time by the relative equality of force between the sides.

                That's where Carter and I part company.

                Comment

                • ishmael
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2000
                  • 23518

                  #9
                  Andrew,

                  Your indescision points to just what a vibrant dilemma we have here. I am in the same boat. Choose one side of the argument and immediately the light of the other seems to shine as brilliantly.

                  As with all momentous decisions it can not be allowed to hang fire forever. It is a painful thing, this world, atimes. I'm glad the full weight of these decisions doesn't rest on my shoulders. The small piece of them I carry every day--waiting--is painful enough.

                  [ 03-12-2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

                  Comment

                  • SelfSinkingFlatiron
                    Nekulturny apparatchik
                    • Jun 2000
                    • 600

                    #10
                    Jimmy Carter is in many ways an admirable human being. He was an execrable President...and he would be about the last person I would ever consult for advice on dealing with Islamism.

                    No, Iraq is not itself an Islamist entity, but it is for a number of reasons the easiest rat-hole to clean up just now. If you are persuaded, as is your prerogative, that the coming war is about filial piety, empire, milennialism, or petroleum, this argument will carry no weight with you.

                    If, however, you credit that there's the slightest chance that this is an out-of-the-box attempt to reshuffle the deck and delegitimize Islamism over the long haul, then you would be advised to consider President Carter's track record with Islamism...and seek advice elsewhere.

                    (Edit to add): I don't entirely trust the administration on this issue. I think many of them are too cozy with the House of Saud (I think that translates roughly into English as "the ultimate problem"). However, I will say this: Were I in the White House, I would do exactly as they have done up to now. In fact, I'd probably have done it more quickly. Whether they will do what I would like to see done next remains to be seen, of course.

                    [ 03-12-2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hall ]
                    This was no ordinary chicken. This was evil manifest.

                    Comment

                    • LeeG
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2002
                      • 73012

                      #11
                      Ken, are you saying the war is an effort to deligitimize Islamism over the long haul?

                      Comment

                      • WTB
                        Junior Member
                        • Oct 2001
                        • 25

                        #12
                        I think they both make good points. I appreciate it that McCain stuck to the assignment and responded to Carter's points in order so that the connection was obvious.

                        Comment

                        • SelfSinkingFlatiron
                          Nekulturny apparatchik
                          • Jun 2000
                          • 600

                          #13
                          Lee, I hope it is. If it isn't, we'll have accomplished nothing of lasting value.
                          This was no ordinary chicken. This was evil manifest.

                          Comment

                          • LeeG
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2002
                            • 73012

                            #14
                            Ken,, I understand that the West/Islam conflict is defined by the fundamentalists as a religious war but the perspective you give is that it is for us as well.

                            Comment

                            • Andrew Craig-Bennett
                              Who?
                              • Aug 1999
                              • 28502

                              #15
                              I hope that it is no such thing.

                              "Islam" is just a convenient label for a particular group of terrorists to hang their atrocities on, just as "Trotskyism" was for the Red Brigades in Germany in the 1970's, or the Weathermen in the USA, or "Catholicism" and "Protestantism" were in Northern Ireland.

                              What these people really enjoy is blowing things up and killing people. We have to put a stop to them, but that does not involve some massive struggle between "the west" (whoever we are - shall we blame Tolkien for that one?) and "Islam" - it just means eliminating some very evil people. Probably not very many people.

                              To think otherwise is to fall right into the trap they are setting for us.
                              IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

                              Comment

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