I Take My Chances

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

There has been some discussion about how risky it is to post on this and other forums. Some are worried about all the bad things that can happen and say we should be less open and free with our postings about our personal lives. I can see their point but, just can't seem to live my life in fear of what "might happen". I love this forum and all the crazy characters I have come to know and would be sad if we couldn't come here and be ourselves. I guess I'll take my Chances. :D tongue.gif

I took a walk in the rain one day
on the wrong side of the tracks
I stood on the rail 'til I saw that train
just to see how my heart would react
Now some people say that you shouldn't tempt fate
and for them I would not disagree
But I never learned nothing from playing it safe
I say fate should not tempt me

I take my chances
I don't mind working without a net
I take my chances
I take my chances every chance I get

I sat alone in the dark one night,
tuning in by remote
I found a preacher who spoke of the light
but there was brimstone in his throat
He'd show me the way according to him
in return for my personal check
I flipped my channel back to CNN
and I lit another cigarette

I take my chances
forgiveness doesn't come with a debt
I take my chances
I take my chances every chance I get.

I've crossed lines of words and wire
and both have cut me deep
I've been frozen out and I've been on fire
and the tears are mine to weep
Now I can cry until I laugh
and laugh until I cry
So cut the deck right in half
I'll play from either side

I take my chances
I pay my dollar and I place my bet
I take my chances
I take my chances every chance I get
I take my chances
I can't cling to remorse or regret
I take my chances
I take my chances every chance I get
I take my chances

{~Mary Chapin Carpenter/ Don Schlitz~}

[NormMessinger]

I agree with you completely, except I don't think you (we) are taking that much of a risk. (I suppose there could be a challenge there for someone, eh?) People are more influenced by stories than by data.

[Jim H]

There is some risk. I used to be a bouncer at a nightclub, some of the biggest nutcases were the seemingly cleancut normal looking types. You never know who's reading what you post or how screwed-up they are mentally.

[alteran]

I'm the one that brought this up recently.

Here is my take on it.

For backround, on another forum a few years ago there was a tussle and a fellow got his feelings hurt,ears pinned back solidly by folks on that forum who had enough of his bully tactics. Shortly after that a few of us suddenly had computer problems. This was before firewalls and such were quite as commonly used at home. A few of us had obscene phone calls. A few had hangups constantly. From, guess who?

Unfortunalty [for him] the bad guy had revealed himself enough on that forum that he was easy to track down and convince that he better stop the nastiness. He did.
Bear in mind none of us had posted our full names or phone #. But some had email addresses posted and we all had revealed enough that we were easy to track down. In this case the guy was a jerk and a nuisance but not a criminal.

Now imagine if he had criminal intent or was simply a bigger jerk who thought he would like to screw up someones life a little. And imagine that by simply looking through the archive of posts he can find all this about at least one if not more of the regulars here;

Your first, middle and last name and birthdate. Your wifes name. Your childs name and birthdate. Your home address and phone #. Where you work and what time you get home late at night. When you are going on vacation and about how long you will be gone. Pictures of your home and family.

With that knowledge he can cause all manner of problems for you and your family. And with that info as a head start he is only a few dollars and a step away from stealing your identity, spending your money, screwing up your credit and that is only a start for the really nasty guys.

To put this in a scenario we are all more familiar with it is like protecting your possesions at home.

You can have a deadbolt lock on your doors, a timer on your light when you are away and an alarm system.

Or.... some ok locks and you don't generally leave the garage door open.

Or... you can leave for a week with nothing locked, the garage door partly up for the dog and newspapers piling up on the front step.

I'm somewhere towards the safer part of this spectrum. Some are way safer than me and some on the net "go on vacation with the garage door open and a sign on the door saying we will be gone for 2 weeks."

Edit,

After I wrote this I picked up the local newspaper and the front page story was about identity theft. A few interesting tidbits,
-------
Identity theft is the fastest growing financial crime in the country.
----------
10% of Americans will become a victim of it.
--------
People in this area [rural and trusting] are particularly vulnerable.

--------

I find that last one most appropriate for this forum. This forum is like the geographic place I live, good people, trusting, likely to say that it is a problem "other places" but not here. And for that very reason easy pickings for evil people.

And that is why I gave a little warning.
What people choose to do with the information is of course up to them.

Al.

[ 03-06-2004, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: alteran ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

The premise I work on is you have to be fairly motivated. Then you would have to be pretty desperate to get worked up enough from something on the Woodenboat forum :rolleyes: to want to cause harm to another person. Then you would have to cull through the archives to assemble a complete profile of the person you intend to harm. Don't forget your a total psycho. So all this work searching and planning your devious plot. When you could simply look up all this available information or befriend the victim and do your nasty deed.

All of this seem pretty far fetched to me. My premise is if someone truly wanted to go through ALL that to cause you harm not posting any information about yourself is not going to prevent them if there hell bent. What you give up to live your protected life is far more troubling. You have to think about posting a cute story about sailing with your daughter, for fear that some psyco is going to be waiting at your launch spot next time you go out. What idiocy is living like that?? Just be who you are enjoy sharing and enjoy the great stories on this forum. RELAX

I just refuse to live like that. I talked it over with my wife and she is in total agreement with me.

The bigger picture for me is having lived through 9/11 in NYC I refuse to live in fear of terror of any type. My life is an open book you want to come to a Summer BBQ of mine come. You want to come to bring me harm bring it on. You are all my online friends some of you I have met in person and more I hope to. Meet more of you.

I just find this kind of paranoia ridiculous - live your sheltered life Ill live mine untethered.

[ 03-06-2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[alteran]

Edit bump.

[alteran]

The point is no one has to be MAD at you.
They may simply want a few credit cards in your name.

Paranoia?

One does not have to be paranoid to have the good sense to lock the door or tell ones child to look both ways before crossing the street.

Paranoia is locking your family inside to keep them safe.

[ 03-06-2004, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: alteran ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

My doors are open. I have a big dog, he barks. If you wanted to come in and I had my doors locked you could break a window big deal. Good luck getting a credit card with my credit :D , let me know if I can borrow it sometime. :rolleyes:

Fact of the matter is I just don't see it happening on this of all places the Woodenboat Forum. :rolleyes: Trust me I'm cautious when its called for it's not called for here. All my info is readily available. I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. Not chest beating just the way MY family chooses to live OUR life. Ill Take My Chances.

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by alteran:
The point is no one has to be MAD at you.
They may simply want a few credit cards in your name.

Paranoia?

One does not have to be paranoid to have the good sense to lock the door.I am a fairly cautious person (I live in the city and have an alarm system in my house for starters) but I don't really see how the information most of us post on the WoodenBoat forum would provide someone with much more of a lead on stealing my identity than what they could find in an on-line phone book. Harassment, theft, and other property or assault types of crimes, yes, certainly, but a name, address, vacation schedule, etc. doesn't seem to me like it would be much of a lead on identity theft.

So, to me the biggest worry IS someone getting mad at me and deciding to go after me in particular (as opposed to picking me out at random). However, the same could be said of letters to the editor of the local paper, with the added fact that most readers of such letters probably live relatively nearby plus the fact that my local paper goes out to a much wider audience than the WoodenBoat forum.

[alteran]

I'll say no more as I just sit here and shake my head in wonder.....................

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Thank God :rolleyes:
We choose to agree to disagree on this Al, that's all there is to it.

All that matters to me is my wife agrees with me.

Ill be sure to invite you to my BBQ

Thinking about sometime in May. Ill post ALL the info up in people and places as well as down here :D

Off to work, so if you want to come over Ill be away for a few hrs, Don't forget to give the dog a snack and leave the door open when you leave, I didn't bring my keys. :D

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I'm back!!!! Hello anyone here ???? Looks like the house is still here :D

Ok Im off to second Job, dont forget to turn off the lights when you leave - there is some beer in the fridge but leave me one so I can have it when I get home OK :D

[ 03-06-2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[paladin]

PERFECT PARANOIA IS PERFECT AWARENESS.....

AND....

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE PARANOID DOESN'T MEAN THEY IZZINT OUT TO GETCHA.

[alteran]

"but a name, address, vacation schedule, etc. doesn't seem to me like it would be much of a lead on identity theft."

Bruce, think about it. If they know you are gone they have time to figure out the security system, if you don't have security they know how long they have to work and they can take the material things they want and have plenty of time to look for extra credit cards, mothers maiden name [family info], and all manner of wonderful things for a thief.
The people that do these things have been in jail or been around people who have.
Jail, a great place for education. Learning the tricks of the trade.

No I have not been in one or done anything that would put me in one. But... I know people who have been.

Furthermore if they know ONLY your vacation schedule and your address [when and where there is a vacant home] isn't that reason enough not to post your schedule on the net?

[Concordia..41]

I have and will post my plans and information on line. If someone wants my identity, they're welcome to it. There's nothing that I have that I haven't worked for and can't work for again and replace. If something happens to me tonight, then today was the day. Life is too short for fear.

- Margo

[alteran]

"I have and will post my plans and information on line. If someone wants my identity, they're welcome to it. There's nothing that I have that I haven't worked for and can't work for again and replace. If something happens to me tonight, then today was the day. Life is too short for fear.

- Margo"

Do you wear a seat belt when driving or take the keys from the ignition when you park?

If so, why?

[Ross M]

"Not chest beating just the way MY family chooses to live OUR life."

I take it this has been discussed with your family?

No position here, but it does seem you are exposing other people to whatever risk exists... do you have thier permission?

Ross

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

If someone steals my identity, do I get to be someone else? Hmmmmmmm....?!? :confused:

Uh......Joe, what kind of beer ya got in the fridge? :D

[ 03-06-2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Concordia..41]

Do you wear a seat belt when driving or take the keys from the ignition when you park?

If so, why?

a. Sometimes
b. Most of the time (been lectured by a cop for leaving the car running outside a convenience store - told her if she wanted it, take it.)

Why?

a. It is the law
b. Habit mainly

Also edited to add that the above posts were knee jerk responses based on a really miserable day. I appreciate alteran's attempts to impress upon us the ever-present dangers, but we each have to take stock of our own situations and then move forward accordingly.

Cheers!
- M

[ 03-06-2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

[Jack Heinlen]

Interesting discussion. Some of you may remember that when I moved last and opened a bank account they did a small background check and found that someone named Mustafa was using my SS number in Cleveland. I reported it to both the FBI and the SS administration, got current credit reports etc. Nothing ever came of it. I assume it was a clerical error, but given the person's name and the timing, October 2001...well you get the picture.

I heard a savvy PI talk about privacy a couple years ago. He said, "Give me a person's phone number, correct last name, and a computer and I'll find everything about them in an hour." I don't think it was braggadacio.

Who knows? I think it's good to be prudent, but when you get down to it privacy basically doesn't exist anymore. :(

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by alteran:
"but a name, address, vacation schedule, etc. doesn't seem to me like it would be much of a lead on identity theft."

Bruce, think about it. If they know you are gone they have time to figure out the security system, if you don't have security they know how long they have to work and they can take the material things they want and have plenty of time to look for extra credit cards, mothers maiden name [family info], and all manner of wonderful things for a thief.
The people that do these things have been in jail or been around people who have.
Jail, a great place for education. Learning the tricks of the trade.

No I have not been in one or done anything that would put me in one. But... I know people who have been.

Furthermore if they know ONLY your vacation schedule and your address [when and where there is a vacant home] isn't that reason enough not to post your schedule on the net?True, but I consider that to be somewhat cheating in terms of answering my point. I don't have any statistics to quote but I'd be VERY surprised if most identity theft happens via breaking and entering and somewhat surprised if most burgleries include identity theft! If someone breaks into my house I don't think the primary charge against them would be identity theft.

Certainly, anyone posting on the web should consider how someone else might use that information, and depending on one's circumstances that might mean not posting things like vacation plans, but I don't think the primary risk of posting vacation schedules is identity theft.

[alteran]

Bruce read the entire thread in context carefully and you will see.

Basically what is all says is the easier you make it for a bad guy the better that chance you have of being ripped off. Breakin and robbery, personal injury in the process, identity theft through them getting info on the net or through the breakin.

And yes breakins are a common route to identitiy theft. Stolen credit cards which are often sold along with other info takin in the process.

I would tell you all more about how its done but I'm not about to do an online tutorial for bad guys.

Simply put, the bad guy looks for "unlocked doors".
Years ago that meant doors that one physically walks through. Today "doors" come in many different forms.

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

"The dangers of life are infinite, and safety is among them."

Goethe

"Trust but verify".

Reagan

[ 03-06-2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Captain Pre-Capsize ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Back home. Whew feels good to pull up my 2000 green Nissan Xterra to my home at 39 East Mountain Road North in loverly Cold Spring, NY, 10516 and just leave the keys in it the car. Checked my messages on my phone # 815-265-3423 surprised no one called. Just got myself a nice cold Sam Adams from my bar fridge (I have 4 more, someone remind me to get some more) Just reading the woodenboat forum and petting the dog. My wife (who agrees with my position on this thread is fast a sleep) Just checked on my daughter and she is curled up snug as a bug. I'm about to brush my teeth and head off to sleep as well. Good night all sweet dreams and Ill talk to you in the morning :D

[Dick Millet]

Just a little tidbit but most identity theft happens because of what you throw in the garbage. Keep that in mind when you toss those convenience checks from the credit card company.

[Jay]

We got to know identity theft last year. Insignificant breakin at our inlaws, in spite of two noisy dogs and good neighbors who keep their eyes open. Some costume jewelry and a cigar box of pocket change was taken, we thought. Three weeks later we discovered that a business checking account was emptied of over $5000.00 and these jerks had I.D’s made up in our names and were cashing checks up and down the I-5 corridor. Turns out we had a box of personal items down in the guest bedroom, and there was a checkbook in it. This was an account that we only used for monthly payroll, so we did not normally check it’s status until month end. Fortunately, the bank covered the losses, but it was not easy or pleasant. Trust me, you do not want to go through this.
I only post occasionally, but I follow the forum on a regular basis. I suspect there are a lot of folks out there doing the same. I truly believe that most folks are honest and good natured, but you only need one bored/desperate/perverted/addicted a##hole to be lurking on the forum here and see an opportunity…We were victim of a perfect crime. These people have not been caught, and there is little chance they ever will be. All I can say is live your life as free as you like, but be aware. My young daughter is asleep upstairs as well, and I’ll choose not to broadcast her whereabouts.
Jay

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Five years later and I'm still living on the edge.
It felt really good to have Norm agree with me back then.

[oznabrag]

Thanks for that glimpse of the forum of old!

Lots of disagreement and discussion. No name-calling!

Awesome.