American Airlines pilot gives finger

[Gerald]

Big news item here in Brazil. An American Airline pilot while being processed into the country, at the airport, gave the finger to the Federal Police. Maybe this should have been placed in the Dumb Award area? Any news of this other than here in Brazil?
Gerald

[Donn]

New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/15/international/americas/15BRAZ.html

[Gerald]

Thanks Donn. From the New York Times:

The dispute heightened Brazilian-American tensions that started Jan. 1 when Brazil demanded that arriving American citizens — and American citizens alone — be photographed and fingerprinted. The policy was in retaliation for increased security measures in the United States that require citizens of all but 27 countries, mostly European, to undergo nearly identical procedures.

At a conference of Western Hemisphere heads of government on Monday, Brazil's president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, personally asked President Bush that Brazilians be exempted from the requirements. He followed that on Tuesday with public criticism of the United States procedures, saying to reporters that "if the problem is to fight terrorism, this measure makes no sense" because "we have no culture of terrorism" in Brazil.

[Donn]

"At Miami International Airport, which receives a large part of passenger traffic from Latin America and the Caribbean, passengers interviewed after going through the process said they had no problem with the screening, and took no offense.

"I think it's good with everything that's going on," said Scott Murray, a Jamaican arriving at the airport. "If you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem. I wasn't offended.

"It took not even a minute, it was left and right index finger on the machine and they take a picture too."

But the Brazilian fingerprint program of U.S. visitors that began last Thursday came on the orders of a judge who angrily compared the new U.S. controls to Nazi horrors.

"I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis," said Federal Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva in a court order to authorize the program in Brazil."
(Emphasis added.)

Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4074908)

[Gerald]

"I think it's good with everything that's going on," said Scott Murray, a Jamaican arriving at the airport. "If you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a problem. I wasn't offended."

My son and brother come to visit next Tues. If questioned by a Brazilian news paper they had best say the same thing that Scott Murray said. In addition they had best smile when they respond. It's the law and if people don't like it just don't visit, ANY, countries where fingerprinting and pictures are required. Can you just imagine what kind of trouble Scott Murray would have been in had he given the finger, even in front of reporters, and it appeared on the front page of the New York Times?
Gerald

[Dave Hadfield]

Insulting your host country is just plane (!) stupid, but I completely understand that Captain's frustration.

I despise the sort of humiliating checks that Airline pilots are subjected to.

We're treated like we're passengers, for Pete's sake.

No pilot, from Orville Wright, to Lindbergh, to Neil Armstrong, to me, has ever needed a weapon to take control of an airplane.

WE ALREADY HAVE CONTROL OF THE AIRPLANE!

All of us, since 1903, could have flown into any damn building we wanted to, at any time, on any flight. We sure weren't prevented by patrolling F-16s.

We are not passengers. We are in command! We should be armed, not relieved of our swiss army knives. (What's a terrorist going to do: overpower me, so he can steal my knife, so he can overpower me? Moronic.)

Every time I have to stop and take off my shoes as I pass US Security, I am enormously tempted to take off my socks as well and walk through the terminal barefooted, as a sign of protest. It really, really bugs me -- pushes every one of my buttons.

Some American pilots are now armed in flight, if they pass certain firearms training standards. You can be sure that if I was flying for an American carrier I'd be first in line for that, just so that I'd be led AROUND security from that time forth.

(Rant only just barely begun. Steam coming out of my ears as I type.)

edited to correct spelling

[ 01-16-2004, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Dave Hadfield ]

[N. Scheuer]

Part of Private Pilot Training is the necessity to "Maintain One's Cool" in trying circumstances. An FAA Examiner may try to get a Student Pilot confused and/or emotionally upset on purpose during a flight test.

I immagine this is even more important for Commercial Pilots. Apart from "International Relations", this particular Pilot blew it, bigtime. Besides, if in uniform, he was representing the Airline.

Moby Nick

[Meerkat]

Some frogs get restive as the water is heated.

[John Bell]

http://boortz.com/images/pilotoamericano1.jpg

Here's the photo.

Intentional? Maybe.
Inadvertent? Possibly.
Overreaction? Certainly.

And Dave: AMEN!

[Jim H]

Gerald, I think the main objection, from the article I read, was that the Brazilian process was taking hours not minutes. I'd imagine that if the tit-for-tat keeps up tourists may find another destination to visit in SA.

[NormMessinger]

A pilot got in trouble at KOMA a while back when securiety wanted to take his fingernail clippers by trying to explain about having access to an axe once he got in to the cockpit.

The rules and efforts to give the illusion of security make a nice show and the frogs wont even notice.

The water is being warmed under general aviation airports too. The day may come when any strip of grass >25' wide and 1200' long will have to have ditches cut accross it. (Be pessimistic and avoid dissapointment.)

[N. Scheuer]

John Bell's photo sorta throws a different light on the situation. I had thought the fuss was caused by the Pilot really flipping somebody off, "UP TO THE ELBOWS", maybe.

The intent of what the photo depicts would seem difficult to determine.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

Does that photo show just a hint of a smirk?

Moby Nick

[JimD]

Having been processed by customs officers in several countries around the world I have to say that the experience at the US border has always been the least enjoyable, not that it's supposed to be fun but having felt welcomed by most nations I've visited the feeling at the US border has always been that I'm an intruder, not a welcome guest, and all of this long before 911.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Dave, I agree 1,000%.

It is inane, insulting, and wholly worthy of Norman Minetta.

JimD, you're right, and they treat U.S. citizens that way too. The INS is one of the most disgraceful departments of the U.S. Government.

I don't fly any more unless I can't avoid it.

Why pay to be treated like cattle? My grandparents' generation would NOT have put up with it.

Alan

[ 01-16-2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[carioca1232001]

The Brazilian judge´s emotional outburst was not very different to the American Airlines pilot´s naughty gesture.

Now leaving that aside, there are the Immigration Officers who are handpicked to enforce whatever measures are necessary by their respective governments.

Exceptions notwithstanding, these are not infrequently only too eager to "wield their authority" over the traveller on the other side of the counter.

A trained dog could probably do the job - of weeding out potential scoundrels - a lot better !

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

A Sudanese passenger was arrested at Heathrow yesterday and appeared in court this morning. On disembarkation from a Virgin Airways flight and going through the scanner he was found to have a pocketful of live ammunition.

He had boarded at....

Dulles Airport, Washington, DC.

:rolleyes:

[Alan D. Hyde]

carioca, I was going to refer to these people as canaille, but I thought why insult dogs???

Alan

[Alan D. Hyde]

ACB, you doubtless know the declension: dull, duller, Dulles... :D

Alan

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

:D

Actually, it can be illuminating to see one's own nation's immigration officials' approach to "aliens". As has been said by others here, one way to do this is to marry an "alien". Otherwise, we seldom if ever see what the real face of our nation, looks like to visitors.

[carioca1232001]

Alan D. Hyde wrote:


carioca, I was going to refer to these people as canaille, but I thought why insult dogs??? Indeed, especially as dogs are man´s best friend ;)

[Gerald]

Gerald, I think the main objection, from the article I read, was that the Brazilian process was taking hours not minutes. I'd imagine that if the tit-for-tat keeps up tourists may find another destination to visit in SA.

Jim ...... At this point I don't really think the Brazilian government cares if United States tourists visit the beaches in Bolivia instead these here in Brazil. I am sure, if the United States had made it a blanket registration process that included all countries there would have been no problem. However, after statements like "Your with me or your against me" It seems like the United States is picking who is with them and that only leaves the ones against.
Gerald

[JimD]

He had boarded at....

Dulles Airport, Washington, DC. Just because they're cranky doesn't mean they know what they're doing :D