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PatCox
06-24-2005, 08:49 PM
I just don't get it. To me, JCSOH is alright. He openly shares his life with us, the good and the bad, from when he was bartending and trying to keep his house, to his success in a new career as a realtor. He is honest about it when he is angry, honest about it when he is happy. He is opinionated, sometimes flies of the handle, and more often than anyone I can think of, openly admits it and apologizes when he sees that he was wrong. Just like someone you'd call a friend in real life.

What happened I do not know, I saw nothing that I took exception to. If I post a fiercely opinionated cut and paste that I know that some people will vigorously disagree with, I am prepared for the responses. Thats called being a grown up and being prepared to deal with the expected conequences of your actions.

The response here to what I consider fair and strong reponses to strong opinions being posted is, quite frankly, whiny. Its the response so many conservatives accuse liberals of having, "oh, you have to be sensitive to my feelings, I should be able to ridicule your beliefs and not have to back up my assertions." Its also sorta passive aggressive, "Oh, its not me, I was just posting what someone else wrote." If you don't want to weather the responses when you post what someone else wrote, don't post it. I have respect for those who post their opinions, no matter how much I might disagree, if they own up to the fact that is what they think and are prepared to defend it.

But when a drive-by cut and paster who lacks the fortitude to endure the controversy he or she has created turns tail and run, I will shed no tears for them.

[ 06-24-2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: PatCox ]

Joe (SoCal)
06-24-2005, 08:55 PM
WOW PatCox Thanks ;)

Dead on what I think about the situation. But you know you will get a TON of flack for this post. Buckle up it's gonna be a bumpy ride. :D

FWIW PatCox post is essentially the exact kind of supportive emails receive from as Donn calls to them : the pathetic silent membership who are too gutless to speak out against behavior that would disgust a rotting corpse.

[ 06-24-2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Ross M
06-24-2005, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the post, Pat.

You have used the phrase "what I consider fair and strong reponses to strong opinions being posted"

Perhaps you can explain how a poster's weight or physical appearance, completely off-topic, is in any way fair or strong?

Ross

Jack Heinlen
06-24-2005, 09:03 PM
Joe can be a bad bully at times, but he's also given a lot to this forum in his joy and love.

Karen has also given a lot...a lot more than simply C&P.

Leave them alone to pursue their myths, their stories of what the universe is about until they cross some indefinable line. Then challenge them; call em on it. But this whole brou ha ha is silly.

Chris Coose
06-24-2005, 09:03 PM
Watch yerself there Pat. Westervelt's gonna add you to the list. Then you're likely to feel really, really bad. Cause he's always right, especially on gin.

High C
06-24-2005, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by PatCox:
I just don't get it....What happened I do not know...The latter explains the former. You missed it. Your opinion is meaningless. :rolleyes:

Joe (SoCal)
06-24-2005, 09:07 PM
So High C you are now the arbiters of the VALUE of any formites opinion???

WHOA kinda lofty aspiration for a soprano eh? :rolleyes: ;)

PatCox I told ya you were gonna get flack. Ya think you can handle it ??? Or go run and hide like some? eh Ross M ???

[ 06-24-2005, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

High C
06-24-2005, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
So High C you are now the arbiters of the VALUE of any formites opinion???
Pat admitted that he missed your ugly behavior, but came to your defense nonetheless.

No one who actually witnessed it has.
Grow up, fast....

Joe (SoCal)
06-24-2005, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Ironmule:
So Pat, "The Witch is Dead" is your idea of fine and upstanding adult behavior? You'd let one of your children post something like that?

Jeff SmithHey Jeff I deleted that thread of my own volition. I thought it over and thought it the correct thing to do. Don't see Donn deleting his thin skin thread do ya?

NEOCON DOG PILE ON THE PAT :rolleyes: TYPICAL

Hey Pat you wont know you have made an impression until we get each one. How many do we have so far, lets count.

Ross M
High C
Ironmule

We will get a few more and then the TROLLS will come.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
06-24-2005, 09:27 PM
Welcome to the "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore club", Pat. ;)

Keep your head down and watch for incoming. :D

Peter Malcolm Jardine
06-24-2005, 09:30 PM
The latter explains the former. You missed it. Your opinion is meaningless. [Roll Eyes] The drummer knows everything. :rolleyes:

You must know that nobody listens to you. ;)

Ross M
06-24-2005, 09:37 PM
"Or go run and hide like some? eh Ross M ??"

Are you implying that you have made some progress on the Barry project?

Because if you have, it is not evident yet.

Ross

PatCox
06-24-2005, 10:39 PM
I saw "ding dong the witch is dead," and unless there were some posts in it I did not see, no, I had no problem with it.

When you post something that you know damn well half of your audience is going to disagree with, or even take as an insult, and that half of the audience in fact does what any dunce would have expected, and takes exception, to call that response a "conspiracy" of "dwarves," is to me the whining of a wuss who has no answer on the merits.

And its also as personally disrespectful as saying "the witch is dead."

If I gave a flying rats ass about whatever words some ass might say in response to what I post, I wouldn't post.

I'd like to see some of the bullies here stand up in court and present an argument in a forum where you have to be able to back it up, and you can be sanctioned for trying to bull**** and intimidate your way out of an argument you started, and where a nuetral arbiter is going to make sure the other side has an equal opportunity to respond, and then make a definitive ruling on who is right and who is wrong. I am used to arguing where you truly have to put up or shut up, and the stakes are more serious than hurt feewings.

This is playtime for me. Kid stuff. Rage on, I won't go away, like the witch.

[ 06-24-2005, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: PatCox ]

High C
06-24-2005, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by PatCox:
I saw "ding dong the witch is dead," and unless there were some posts in it I did not see, no, I had no problem with it....You missed plenty.

Katherine
06-24-2005, 10:52 PM
Pat, that book writing's getting to you isn't it.

Meerkat
06-24-2005, 10:53 PM
"neo dog piles" - are those the fresh ones the dog leaves in the middle of the yard? ;) :D

PatCox
06-24-2005, 10:54 PM
You see, High C (and by the way, you are one of the forumites I do respect, you do stand for your own words and you are not kneejerk, you do think for yourself and stray from the party line) in court, your naked assertion that there was worse, would be laughed at. What was it? What exactly was said? I cannot respond to a vague "oh, there was bad stuff," can I?

Ross M
06-24-2005, 10:59 PM
Pat

If you would like to see the offending thread and photograph you will have to contact Scot - they were deleted soon after the event.

But I can tell you that Meerkat observed and objected; Katherine observed and objected; Ed Harrow observed and objected.

By the time I prepared my objection, Joe complied to Ed's request and removed a few of his ugliest posts.

As I remember it, Mike removed the picture and soon the entire thread was gone.

My account and perceptions: A Note to Mike and Joe (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=024314)

If you have questions about the veracity of my account, It is possible that Ed, Meerkat or possibly Katherine would fill you in.

Ross

PatCox
06-24-2005, 11:00 PM
Chris, my favorite westerveldt tactic, he hasn't used it in a few years, was when he would post a picture of his pretty stainless steel shotgun in responsed to posts he doesn't like. Yup, a straight on neanderthal response, "I don't like what you said, look at my gun." I think Donn, before he retired, got used to always talking to people whose paycheck depended on him. Such people are often taken aback when people who arent paid to take their bull**** respond appropriately.

Meerkat
06-24-2005, 11:03 PM
I wonder if Donn and Bolton have similar temperments? ;) :D

Jack Heinlen
06-24-2005, 11:18 PM
Pat, Ross, the rest of you. I've trangressed, called names, even threatened occassionally, but Donn hasn't done anything really untoward for a long time. Were his threats wrong, yes. Did he really mean them, not. I can't imagine him getting in his Ford van and driving to Seattle to flatten David with his twelve gauge pump.

Should we try to reason together, absolutely. Is it wrong to get a bit testy with an opponent who is recalcitrant, no. Is calling names, being nasty simply because we don't like opinions correct, of course not.

It must be summer, too much time on our hands. Though the damned lawn needs mowing again.

I didn't hear the words spoken. If they were nasty without basis I'm against it. But give this crusade a break. Mike, Karen, and Charles seem to have worked it out. Joe isn't as regretful as I'd like, but I'm not in charge.

Joe (SoCal)
06-25-2005, 04:46 AM
OK I have transgressed in the past and have apologized. To be perfectly honest the Ding Dong thread was not one of my worst by far. And Pat if you caught the first post you caught the entire gist of it.

It in no way got out of hand before I thought better and deleted it. FWIW I kept it mostly tongue in cheek as a serious discussion on the subject of the Wizard of OZ in American society. Oh and the photograph that Ross alludes to was simply a photo of the wicked witch of the west a screen shot from the move The Wizard of OZ :rolleyes: geeeeezus talk about your THIN skins eh Ross ? :rolleyes: I do not have a CLUE as to what HiC and others are saying about how bad it got.

It was however causing people who I have come to respect on this forum concern so I chose to purge it. For the record had I posted the EXACT same thread word for word 2 weeks ago the thread would have taken a completely different tack.

On the other hand Donn's thread is an all out assault, complete with name calling and verbiage that makes my "Ding Dong" thread look even more tame in comparison. Yet HiC can't see that , Is it a case of neocon blindness? Or is it yet another case of its OK when they do it? :rolleyes:

[ 06-25-2005, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Chris Coose
06-25-2005, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by PatCox:
Chris, my favorite westerveldt tactic, he hasn't used it in a few years, was when he would post a picture of his pretty stainless steel shotgun in responsed to posts he doesn't like. Yup, a straight on neanderthal response, "I don't like what you said, look at my gun." That came after the home visit threats. Or maybe for a while it was a combination approach
I was vey fond of the digital guns. I'm pretty certain that sober, mature effort on the part of the pseudo moderator brought the enemy right around. I know it did me.
Around to an understanding that Westervelt was perhaps stroking around the canal light some important gear.