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cs
11-24-2004, 07:53 AM
We all as kids dream of things that we want to do when you get older. For some it may be racing in NASCAR or being an all pro running back. Or maybe it was being the world champion downhill skier. I've always beleived that with enough grit, determination and practise that you could achieve these goals.

As I get older though I've come to realize that there are just some things that no matter how hard you practisce or how much you want it you just can't get there.

One of my favorite dreams is the dream of being able to play guitar (and sound good while doing it) and being able to sing. Not that I would want to be center stage at an arena, but rather I would like to be able to play and sing for my enjoyment and to share that with others.

But alas I practise and practise and it just don't happen. I've come to realize that playing a guitar has to involve at least a little bit of talent that can't be learned. I will keep trying though.

As far as singing, this is something kind of kin to running fast, you just can't teach it. I probably have the worse signing voice in the world. I would make Rosanne sound like an angel. As a toddler my daughter would not let me sing to her. I'm not joking about my voice. Those that have meet me and spoke to me can probably verify the fact that my voice sux big time.

Oh well, I still love music.

Chad

km gresham
11-24-2004, 07:57 AM
Chad, some things we just have to do for our own enjoyment and pleasure! One of my sons as an INFANT would put his hands over my mouth when I would sing to him. :rolleyes: :D

My best singing is done when I'm alone in the car - I can be as loud and off key as I please! smile.gif

Joe (SoCal)
11-24-2004, 08:07 AM
About 10-15 years ago I had to swallow the fact that I was never going to race in LeTour. I had peaked in my teens before life could take over. I was a junior racing cat 1 / 2 races. I made it to the Pan-Am games and the Olympic development team under Jim Grill's and Chris Carmical coaching, and did well in the local classics. But the commitment got blurry when school, girls, life and a couple of injuries got in the way smile.gif

Now I wish I sailed more as a young man, hopefully it would have cured this wanderlust. I don't see a circumnavigation in my immediate future but ahhh I can dream smile.gif

km gresham
11-24-2004, 08:12 AM
The secret is simple dreams. I wanted to be a wife and a mother. Worked out great! No regrets, no unfulfilled dreams! :D

Bruce Hooke
11-24-2004, 08:18 AM
Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly. - JFK

Jack Heinlen
11-24-2004, 08:31 AM
"Somewhere in his early forties a man often realizes he has been climbing the wrong ladder."

Robert Bly(not even a close paraphrase, but the meaning is there).

I had a good set of pegs, and once dreamt of riding the Tour de France. I've a decent set of pipes, and still imagine a song or two.

Most of us are never going to get rich and famous off such talents, but that's no reason to not ride a bike, or sing. It's small things that make each of us special, and great, even when we fail. To take special care with the people around us, to be honest and true, is the best thing, and the most famous-est we're ever likely to become. Ed Harrow is one of my heroes. I like it that way. It saves us from the paparazzi. ;)

km gresham
11-24-2004, 08:47 AM
Well, said, Jack.

Sometimes the greatest achievements come from the simplest of dreams, too. I only wanted to be a (good) wife and mother, and other women for ages have wanted the same. Some have wound up being the wife or mother of truly great husbands, sons or daughters.

Inventors, Presidents, Secretary of State ;) , pioneers in medicine, military heroes, great archetects, or just wonderful husbands, sons or daughters. smile.gif

We just never know where our dreams, large or small will take us - or others. Isn't it a wonderful journey!!

SUE H
11-24-2004, 08:52 AM
Well said Jack!

Chad, never say never. Mike's been taking lessons since before I've known him, and he's just now starting to really jam. Suddenly, he can hear a song and know what cords are used and pick it out. It's so great! And, he is now able to play and sing simulataneously, which, I'm sure you can attest to, is difficult.

As for singing, it CAN be taught and has been taught for ages. Find a coach and give it a try. Listen to Janis Joplin or Bob Dylan if you think you have to sound like Pavarotti to be a good singer!

Anyway, keep at it and one of these ol' days, it will just start coming together. Oh, and find a good guitar teacher. Mike's current one is a great teacher, and he is really teaching Mike a lot. You have to find someone who teaches in the style that you learn best, so you might have to try a few out.

I'm sure "TGP" will have some reassuring words for you, too. smile.gif

Don't EVER give up your dreams, it's what keeps you going in life. That's why I'm working towards my degree in art at this ripe old age. I didn't want to look back from my death bed and say I never tried. Hey, if Grandma Moses could paint, why not me?

Edited to add: That's 2 "Well saids" Jack, you're on a roll! ;)

[ 11-24-2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: SUE H ]

TGP
11-24-2004, 09:12 AM
"But alas I practise and practise and it just don't happen. I've come to realize that playing a guitar has to involve at least a little bit of talent that can't be learned. I will keep trying though."

It can indeed be learned. It's not so much about talent but about desire.

I think you have the desire but how bad? Most great guitar players practiced 10+ hours a day in the beginning. That really isn't possible for someone like you or me but how much can you do? I try to practice at least 2 hours a day and that usually turns into more. What are you willing to give up in order to learn to play? As for me the boat building is on the back burner right now and the guitar comes first.

As for singing, my voice is what it is. It's mine. I intend to take singing lessons at some point in time. try humming along as you play. Before long you will be singing too. It's something that just happens. But before it does you have to have good timing and rhythm. Think of the guitar as a percussion instrument. It is.

As was suggested, find a good instructor. One that you can really learn from.

Garrett Lowell
11-24-2004, 09:33 AM
Chad, if I can learn to play, you can learn. I think you need to find someone nearby to get together and jam with. Like anything physical, practicing only goes so far.
I "sing" as well, and everybody loves it (so long as the beer is readily available, just leave the tape recorder off, thank you.) and there are numerous singers who don't have good voices. Mark Knopfler is probably the one that comes most readily to mind. Marilyn Manson, 3-11, Jet, Metallica, the list goes on and on. Doesn't stop them, though. Having a unique voice is just as good as having a good voice.

km gresham
11-24-2004, 09:36 AM
I imagine 2 precious hours a day is even impossible for someone who is working and raising a child. However retirement comes and children get grown and then there is plenty of time for practice, practice, practice! Never too late, as Sue said! :D

My problem is that I want to do things, I just don't want to LEARN to do them! :rolleyes:

[ 11-24-2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

Popeye
11-24-2004, 09:41 AM
Genetics, unfortunately, stopped me at an early age. A blues guitar player friend of mine was looking thru some album covers of Steve Cropper, Hendrix and Johnny Winter and said " Sheesh. Heavy gear and long fingers"

http://www.skaanevik-blues.com/images/Johnny_Winter_1.jpg

TGP
11-24-2004, 10:06 AM
Chad, think of a song you have on CD that you want to learn to play and tell me what it is.

brad9798
11-24-2004, 10:40 AM
Right on Mike and Sue! See, we can get along!

I agree with what you both said.

Keep dreamin' CS!

Brad

cs
11-24-2004, 12:59 PM
See that is what I have always beleived, that with enough determination and practise anything was possible. This is not about climbing the wrong ladder though, for I never wanted to be a rock star, just want to sing and play for the enjoyment of it.

No doubt the desire and commentment is there, but the skill is not. This is not something that I have tried for a month or so or even a couple of years. My first love with the guitar came when I was about 16 years old and I got my first guitar around 1991 and have been working at pretty hard since than. I have taken lessons from others and have at least reached a point that I can almost play and I keep trying, but I have come to realize that I just don't have the skills to be an accomplished player. Oh, I will keep trying but I think this is one dream that is not possible for me.

As for signing, there is no amount of training that will make my signing even be bearable. Keep in mind that they wouldn't even let me sing in elementry choir. You know that is the one where all the kids in the class sing at the mall. I was excluded from this.

Chad

km gresham
11-24-2004, 01:02 PM
:( Sing anyway. :D

TGP
11-24-2004, 01:58 PM
Have you ever heard of the term "self-fullfilling prophecy?"

If you keep telling yourself you can't do something then eventually you'll believe it. Try a more positive attitude.

You can do this. I don't know about your singing. I heard you sing and play once, it was that song about cowboys by Willy Nelson I think. It sounded fine to me. But then again I was drunk at the time. :D

As I said, pick out a song that you have on CD and go here for the chords. Just an easy strumming song. Nothing fancy. I bet you can do it. I spend a lot of time at this site. It's helped me immensely.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/

[ 11-24-2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: TGP ]

cs
11-24-2004, 09:11 PM
I've already got a simple song to practice and have been at it quite a while now.

"Margaritaville" Jimmy Buffet

Chad

SUE H
11-24-2004, 10:04 PM
Mike says this one's even simpler; you might want to give it a try, and good luck!

Knockin On Heavens Door
Chords by Dylan Bob, www.Ultimate-Guitar.Com (http://www.Ultimate-Guitar.Com)

KNOCKIN' ON HEAVEN'S DOOR Time: 4/4 (sync) Tenor: G Bass: G
- Bob Dylan, 1973
- Record: Bob Dylan, ??
- Record: Eric Clapton, Timepieces

INTRO: G-D, C

G D Am7
.. Mama take this badge off of me
G D C
.. I can't use it any-more
G D Am7
. It's getting dark, too dark for me to see
G D C (D)
. I feel I'm knockin on heaven's door___


CHORUS:
G D Am7
.. Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door
G D C (D)
.. Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door___
G D Am7
.. Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door
G D C (D)
.. Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door___


G D Am7
.. Mama put my guns in the ground
G D C
.. I can't shoot them any-more
G D Am7
. That long black cloud is comin' down
G D C (D)
. I feel I'm knockin' on heaven's door___


ENDING: CHORUS, THEN REPEAT AND FADE

G D Am7 (G)
Oo - oo - oo - oo


NOTES:
- "." in lyric line represents 1/8 bar rest
- "*" in chord line represents a new bar, play same chord
- V1L3: Clapton omits "for me"
- V1L4, C1L2: (D) is an optional added chord
- END: (G) is optional (return to tonic chord)

imported_Dutch
11-24-2004, 10:13 PM
thats why theres mens magazines

Wild Dingo
11-25-2004, 12:50 AM
Chad dreams are what make the world go round... all of us have them some greater than others some are achievable with ease others take effort and yet others will take a lifetime... its a matter of how MUCH your willing to give to achieve it what your prepared to do to get there... and sometimes dreams are best kept as dreams.

When I first started playing I went wholehog heavy rock with a bit of blues thrown in... dreamt of bein a rock an roll star sure as ****e did! old Bon Scott of ACDC and I have similar singing voices... was in a couple of bands played pubs and some small country gigs but it just never seemed to happen for me like Bon... {note here Im pretty happy with that now since Im still breathin and he aint! :eek: But then Noddy Holden the new leadsinger and I sound like twin voices :rolleyes: so nothin lost} But a rock an roller heavy metal preferably... and LOUD!!!

Anyway took years to realize that I was meant to play country and thats where I enjoy the ride... kick back after a session and out would come the ol Merle Haggard Slim Dusty etal country... but it was only when I started muckin with "Diggin up bones" by Randy Travis and "Boys from the bush" by Lee Kernigan that it hit me that this was it!... shoulda played that way from the start maybe I woulda made it eh?

Nope never did get to be a "star" but thats okay I was and am a star to me hoons and thats enough :cool: ... mind here possum cant stand me voice and goes into proxims whenever I start country singing as she doesnt like that either more a "Jimmy Buffet" "Cat Stevens" "America" kinda girl is my possumpoop but I dont sound shat like them so I gave that up as a bad joke years ago tongue.gif

Dreams of drivin in a bush rally was always big for me but the only fella I would have driven with as navigator died so that finished that with a snap... dreams of sailin around the world are still with me and always will be till I achieve it... or dont

See Chad always remember dreams are like life its the journey that matters not the getting there... but my thoughts are you may as well dream big as dream at all so make your dreams like life... WORTH IT!

Dont sweat the big things just work out the small things and the rest will sort itself out... no worries!

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
11-25-2004, 03:33 AM
You can build wooden boats Chad, what more could you want? :D ;)

My kids cried when I sang to them, I told them I'd stop if they'd just go to bed. Worked for me. :D

martin schulz
11-25-2004, 04:30 AM
Ahh - the illusion of the American Dream at work :D

I think prince Charles is quite right:
"What is wrong with everyone nowadays?" the prince wrote in the memo last year. "Why do they all seem to think they are qualified to do things far beyond their capabilities? "People think they can all be pop stars, high court judges, brilliant TV personalities ... without ever putting in the necessary work or having natural ability."

I found out that the most rewarding think in life is not some impossible dream, but to know what one is able to do and to accept that one is not able to do everything. That provides one with a self-respect that is very satisfactory. And working with people that don't have their heads in the sky is also very enjoyable.

[ 11-25-2004, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: martin schulz ]

Magwitch
11-25-2004, 04:48 AM
Do what you enjoy, enjoy what you do and do more of it.
IanW

SUE H
11-25-2004, 09:02 AM
"Ahh - the illusion of the American Dream at work"

Martin, I hope and pray that American's aren't the only ones who dream.

And my dreams are working out very nicely, thank you. I wanted to be a bride, and an artist at the age of 5, and I'm enjoying both now!

Keep at it Chad, you're younger than me, and you have time yet. :cool: I like Dingo's take on it that maybe you just haven't found your "voice" yet.

And for crying out loud, don't define yourself by something that a grammar school teacher said. They also thought Einstein was slow!

TGP
11-25-2004, 12:44 PM
I don't know how you are playing Margaritaville but I found two different versions and played them both. One in D and one in C. I like the one in C better.

MARGARITAVILLE
(Jimmy Buffet)

C
Nibblin' on sponge cake, watchin' the sun bake
G
All of those tourist covered with oil

Strummin' my six string, on my front porch swing
C
Smell those shrimp they're beginnin' to boil

F G C G
CHORUS: Wastin' away again in Margarita-ville
F G C G
Searchin' for my lost shaker of salt
F G C G F
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame
G C
But I know it's nobody's fault

C
I don't know the reason, I stayed here all season
G
Nothin' to show but this brand new tatoo

But it's a real beautie, a Mexican cutie
C
But how it got here I haven't a clue

CHORUS

C
I blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-top
G
Cut my heel had to cruise on back home

But there's booze in the blender, and soon it will render
C
That frozen concotion that helps me hang on

CHORUS

F G C G F
Some people say that there's a woman to blame
G C
But I know it's my own damn fault

TomF
11-25-2004, 01:35 PM
Not to throw too much cold water around ... but some dreams can't come true. And holding on to them can be personally destructive.

A buddy and I were both opera students in the early 1980s. We both ALMOST had what it took. Me? Lots of "musicianship," big Bass voice and a good ear for languages, but I couldn't get past some technique problems. No consistent high notes = limited opera career.

My friend had the most fabulous Baritone sound - enormous, rafter-rattling, rich. Kicked butt on the big tunes, but couldn't sing sensitively to save his soul. Or learn languages, except phonetically. That voice brought him tens of thousands as a student ... his studies literally bankrolled by a series of private philanthropists. But he couldn't either recognize or surmount his blocks. As he didn't develop another real career line, my friend now makes his living acting in commercials ... waiting for a big break that was late 15 years ago.

We'd dreamed of singing professionally together. For me, letting go of that dream, and finding others, was crucial to becoming a grown-up.

BTW, 2 tenors who studied with us now have prominent international Opera careers (Richard Margison, Benjamin Butterfield). Wonderful guys, but hearing their recordings/concerts is always bittersweet. In particular, I can't hear Ben's voice without thinking of concert and Opera Workshop performances we did together two decades ago and more ...

TGP
11-25-2004, 03:03 PM
My God! All he wants to do is learn how to play Margaritaville! You'd think he was gonna give up the wife and kids and fly the coup the way some of you folks talk! :rolleyes:

John Weigandt
11-25-2004, 06:27 PM
I thought that my dreams of going into space were impossible. As a skinny near sighted asthmatic kid in 1969, I was glued to the tube watching the space program, but knew it would never come true for me.

This year I nearly cried... 2 words Burt Rutan

ya never know.... ya just never know

Chris Coose
11-27-2004, 11:09 AM
I attended a volunteer appreciation dinner the other night at the hospital where I do some per diem work.

I belted out Johnny Mercer's "Too Marvelous for Words" acapella for 75 people. Took me 53 years to prepare for it. The applause was electic. Gotta find a whispy jazz standards piano player next.

I had some trouble the other day watching the "turkey trot" 4 miler downtown, thinking it's over for me (knees). Then it occurred to me, I was there to cheer on the bride and my 7 year old.

Noah
11-27-2004, 12:57 PM
Lets see here:

Chad, I'm a pretty good guitar player, but I can't just "strum" a song out. I'm a very rhythmic player, but strumming just doesn't do it. It took me quite a bit of time before I could play what I was hearing, but I finally have my own style and it works. Try playing different parts of the song till you find what works, and resonates in your own head.

Martin, is some ways I do agree with Prince Charles. Too many people only dream of winning the lottery, not actually making it happen.

As far as one dream of mine, it's having a truely beautiful wooden sailboat and having fun sailing it just about every day. Not neccesarily going around the world or anything like that, just enjoying a boat and bringing that enjoyment to others. I always offer sails to anyone that might want to get out and see what sailing is all about.

Wild Dingo
11-27-2004, 01:40 PM
Actually...

Dreams are like :eek: ...ahem... well... as the saying goes... everyone has them :rolleyes:

As Tom says being able to know when to let them go is vital some dreams when held onto can become destructive... so I gotta clarify what I said above

Dream big but know when reality bites and bring the dream back to size... ie: coaster down to grey seal that sorta thing... more managable more realistic more chance for the dream to become reality as life moves along

As for the music Chad mate dont sweat the little things ol son... its there just keep working at it find YOUR place in the music and then the music WILL find you... dont try to be a Stevie Ray or Dick Dale mate {it bloody hurts like hell :eek: take it from one who tried :rolleyes: } just find a style a genre thats yours suitable to your voice your tastes and your style of playing... and be open to different styles of music dont focus on just one style buffets cool but so are Randy Travis Chuck Berry fleetwood mac moody blues doors... I was teachin a fella awhile ago and he wanted to do something loud you know a REAL riff so to satisfy that I got the tab for Jimmy Hendrix star spangled banner he played at woodstock for him... that did the trick! :D for a time enough though to play around with and get the kinks out... so think about it and give it a go... nothing to it really but the sound when way up is soooooooooooooo :cool:

Mostly dont get hung up! Music weather listening to or playing is meant to be enjoyed... so as the cool cats used to say back in the days that if you remember them you werent there "just go with the flow and be easy man" :D :cool: