Bristol channel pilot cutter in build in NZ.

[John B]

A 50 ft beastie built plank on doubled sawn frames as per original ,except all from NZ kauri.
When I first looked late last year it was some large lumps of timber on the ground but now... some progress.
The large piece of kauri to the right is about 3ft x 8" or so x about 10 ft long. Very hard to get good big kauri like this.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid164/pc534807e622ca3604aa018aa5e94ae8d/f476e344.jpg
it now looks like this...
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/164_6405_2.jpg

and this....
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/164_6406_3.jpg

with the whole looking like this..

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/164_6403_1.jpg

Peter Brookes is the boat builder. He restored the 30 square metre VIVI which I posted on quite a bit over the last year or so.

[mmd]

Auspicious beginnings, John. I hope you'll be able to keep us updated as the build progresses. Thanks.

[John B]

what else.. the mast in the foreground is Waitangi's mast( the 57 ft logan cutter from 1894 or so). It broke at the spreaders during the passage race to the mahurangi festival in late january .breakage due to rot. looks like one of the bands crushed the timber, breaking the varnish seal and letting water in.

[John B]

will do mmd. Peter has his own site and own photos too

here (http://www.classicsail.net/) >building restoration >then Hannah Mae

[L.W. Baxter]

Curious set up.

You say doubled sawn frames... but it's set up with molds, like the frames will be bent in after planking? And the molds are really spaced out, maybe six feet or more, like it's going to be strip planked. If it were to be plank on frame, wouldn't the molds be more closely spaced?

[John B]

Gawd.... this is a first.. I'm out the back with the wifi on a laptop ar har har.
um as I understand it, the moulds are to set the ribbands, which the frames will then be patterned off. frames every 18 in or so.
oh no the sun on the lcd. nooo....

[PeterSibley]

John B...thanks ! very interesting.Please keep us posted .Vague similarities to my (much smaller at 34')version.I'm putting sawn frames at 800mm (32") with 2 bent frames between.Oh and I have a short counter. :D

[PeterSibley]

Just looking at the website you gave John,great pictures .It's going to be well documented .Nice to have a backhoe to do your lifting ...says me with a chainblock and aching back ;)

[PeterSibley]

Refering to the construction photos,what do people who have done this style of work think about the tempory moulds? I'm just about to start on my frames and had planned to just erect them and run fairing battens to make sure all is well.I'm pretty confident of my loftings.The way he's doing it seems to be doubling up on the work...unless the loftings are suspect?

[John B]

when I posted this over in misc boat the other day , Mike inferred that its a fairly normal practise. As far as I can see/understand its a kind of belt and braces way of building for a one off. I'll ask more about the method next time.
Yeah, Peter's pretty happy with the tractor/backhoe. :D and the new house, new shed,pilot cutter,30 square,west solent.he's well organised. one of the clearest thinkers I've met in years.

[Stiletto]

Will it now be a Rangitoto Channel pilot cutter? ;)

[John B]

:D
a bit like Iris eh. the Waikere channel pilot cutter.

ah, no. its being built for an Englishman. Who lives in J.O.E.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Early type design, with very square stem, deep forefoot and heavy displacement.

Still puzzled over the shadow moulds and ribbands for sawn frame construction; conventionally the bevels would be applied from the lofting and any adjustments made by dubbing off as the planks are run. But I could see that the method would make sense for laminated frames, where there would be benefit in picking up the bevels precisely.

[Stephen]

Excellent stuff.
Here's another one:
http://www.cockwells.co.uk/newbuilds_bristolchannelpilotcutter.htm

[John B]

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/167_6714_6.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2608_9.jpg

[John B]

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/225_2587_8.jpg

[Figment]

Dear god!!! Would ya look at the heft of those timbers?? I didn't think you guys had much use for icebreakers in NZ.

I'll bet cutting that rabbet created enough woodchips to heat my house for a full winter! :cool:

(thanks for posting John. Can't wait to follow along as she grows.)

[L.W. Baxter]

Huh, well I still don't see the benefit of the method, but you do get an early look at the overall shape!

Gonna be a neat boat, I'm keenly interested in the type. Thanks for the update, John.

[John B]

The Pilot Cutter is all framed. Work has been a bit intermitant but now Mike , the owner of Tern II, is working on her full time whilst Rawhiti proceeds alongside.
This boat is massive in all respects. the framing is almost beyond belief as far as size and strength is concerned.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2613_10.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2616_11.jpg


see the bottom sections where the doubling finishes... this is where there will be floor timbers

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2616_11.jpg
looking aft , inside,
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2622_13.jpg

[L.W. Baxter]

They could just throw in a few more frames, caulk between them, and do away with the planking altogether!

Mighty interesting project, wish I could see it in person, put my hands on that beautiful wood...

[J P]

Wow, that's impressive! Where does Kauri like that come from these days? Is it salvaged from found logs?

[Jase]

If you go to Pete's site http://www.heybridge-basin.co.uk/Hannahmae.html it has the whole process under the channel cutter link, from tree/log to milling etc :)

[J P]

Thanks for the link Jase, nice sequence documented there.

Mature Kauri is so special, as will be this boat. I hope re-forestation efforts are/will be, a success on the Coromandel and elsewhere.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Thanks, this is lovely to see. Very high quality work.

[seanz]

"You can't get the wood,you know."
Oh yes you can.
That is such a brilliant project.
Thanks for the update,it's much appreciated.
Oh yeah.
Plant more Kauri.

[John B]

cont'd , a few more pics.
as I was saying, one frame is temporarily out as its being morticed into the stem, but I left the photo out....
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2625_14.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2626_15.jpg
Mike, who is a tall fella, alongside for scale
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/226_2627_16.jpg

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Heybridge Basin was the home port of the late and much missed Ian Wright's "Patience" and the spiritual home of Alex's "Hon. Uncle" Ian himself.

Haven't been back since Ian's wake; I miss that bloke a lot.

Who did Peter work for there? Arthur Holt? Reckon I must have met him, if so.

One reason for the massive scantlings is that the futtocks are sawn from straight grained timber not compass timber.

[John B]

I think Peter worked for himself, he rebuilt virtually all the west solent class boats and knew Ian well. He repaired his transom on Patience IIRC. There was some issue there with water ingress through a capping or something?
Pete brought Natica, one of the West solents out here and has raced it the last few years. Quick boat well sailed. Its just been sold to France( scoop)

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Ah, the bloke who did the West Solents.

[Wild Dingo]

Love these Pilot Cutters... and this one is somewhat HUMUNGOUS!! :eek: hes going along at a nice steady clip eh Johnno... and its coming along beautifully

As for our old mate Peter Sibley... he of the mystery boat in the bush fame... you do realize Johnno that ol Peter has yet to unveil her in any shape form of whatever? NOT ONCE!! nope I know he has yet to post even one pic of his build out there in the scrub... I mean hes a mate right? an mates show pics of their builds right? sooo... come on PETER!!! how about a quick looksee to whet our appetites?

ahem now to check this blokes website! :cool:
Cheers Johnno

[John B]

Floors
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/227_2787_17.jpg

[PeterSibley]

G'day Shane , I will ,I will ...but these photos tend to make a bloke a bit consious of the roughness of his work :D

[PeterSibley]

John , thanks a lot for those photos , just what I need ,especially the ones of the floors .Much appreciated .

[rbgarr]

I've never seen such a big stem knee!

[Ethan]

Thanks John! This is some of the best boat porn ever!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Is he going to cement her?

I ask because I see no limbers.

[Ethan]

ACB,
Regarding your post above about this being "the bloke who did the Solents"....does this guy not have a positive reputation? Not looking to dish dirt here, but I'm curious if there's more to the story...

[John B]

We discussed linbers another visit Andrew,so I'm sure he has a cunning plan. Those floors are all just fitted/clamped not glued or riveted yet .

Dish the dirt? you have to be joking.
Do a search on Rawhiti( current thread) or Vivi , I think I called that " the 30 Square metre"

[Ethan]

Hey John, I think you may have taken my comment differently than I intended it. ACB's comment that I referenced struck me as if there were something he was holding back. I was just curious if my perception was correct. 'Cause you know, if I decide to sell everything and have a BCPC built in NZ, I want to be sure of who I'm dealing with!;) :D

Awesome thread...I've been having a serious bout of boat lust all day because of it!

[CK 17]

neat project, how did they transfer the shape of the hull to the ribs inbetween the moulds. I see the plywood lying on the rib material. was it a trail and error thing until they got the final shape?

I'd like to see a picture of that step.

[John B]

I don't know CK, all I know is that the frames are all shaped and beveled to the fairing battens/ ribbands and that there will be some but minimal final fairing to get the planks to land accurately.
Its a mystery to me.
edit, Actually , on thinking about it my bet is this. He made a front and back pattern off the ribbands for each frame to get the bevels/twist. Then he used the same patterns to make the other side frame. ( I know that each stbd frame is a mirror of the port.)

hi Ethan, Its probably the same the world over but there are differences in build/restoration philosophies. We have 5 restorations going here currently ranging from NO glue at all through these mid point restorations/ builds where judicious amounts of glue is used ,through to 2 full encapsulations with glass over old hulls:rolleyes: .

I guess everyone has their own opinion on how a job should be done and often there is a degree of disagreement or difference in ( for example again ) how much and where and what type of glue should be used. Pete has developed his style and philosophy which is very ahhh? structural based and around the middle of that 'range'.IE , old construction methods but no compromises on strength if some glue is appropriate.Belt and braces.
Pete is the clearest thinker I've come across for years. He works very cleanly( I made a joke about wood shavings/mess yesterday) and makes each component to a patterned shape and then fits it.
So its quite possible that some might disagree with some of his methods I'd imagine ( maybe not?),but when I see that boat being built I see something amazing, something stronger than an original of the type and something which will easily go anywhere and last a century ,or more .

[PeterSibley]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pfbc2f45f42e62fbd117fb4fab9519a0a/e9cd71f5.jpg


John , I see what you mean by reliance on glue ....that is a very short futtock overlap !

[John B]

LOL.
next job is the keelson ( kelson?)... a proper one, a real one, one that lies along the tops of the floors .

[Thorne]

How the heck did he get his hands on that much kauri???? I thought you had to have goverment approval to cut much of anything....

Impressive!

[John B]

he has that on his site Thorne

www.classicsail.netbuilding restoration >then Hannah Mae

'cept when you read it ,its kauri pine, not kauri Oak

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Hey John, I think you may have taken my comment differently than I intended it. ACB's comment that I referenced struck me as if there were something he was holding back. I was just curious if my perception was correct. 'Cause you know, if I decide to sell everything and have a BCPC built in NZ, I want to be sure of who I'm dealing with!;) :D

Awesome thread...I've been having a serious bout of boat lust all day because of it!

Nothing negative at all. Just utterly outside my price range!:)

[Brookes]

Answers to some of your questions:
“Hannah Mae” is a new build based on the Bristol Pilot boat “Hilda’ built by J Cooper Pill 1899 .At 52ft she was run down and sunk by the tug Brunel in 1912
Her lines were taken from a book by Edgar J March “inshore craft of Britain”.
Not sure of her lines I set her up with Moulds and Ribbands from this I was able to change some things i.e. more freeboard aft giving her more sheer, slightly deeper forefoot and longer counter stern.
Made plywood patterns at 18” centers through the boat and made Kauri doubled 7”x6” sawn frames “Andrew Craig” (compass cut).
There are limber holes cut in bottom of frames and before floors are fixed will be transferred to them, No concrete.
Well spotted “Peter Sibley” but not quite right all futtocks overlap by at least 24” that particular kauri frame has some lines in the grain, I have been told by my kauri man these are compression marks caused by the massive weight of these huge trees at there bases. Where this framing timber comes from is the curved timber that flares out at the base. Have cut thin pieces of this and put across my knee and broke in other places.
I only use the glue to help in the building process everything is mechanically fixed, Futtocks are ½” copper riveted.
Yes “Andrew” I am the bloke who did the West Solents check them out on my website www.classicsail.net (http://www.classicsail.net/)
I grew up in the basin and knew Arthur well; my dad had an Essex smack which we raced on the Blackwater.
A mate of mine purchased holts when they closed up.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks for that Brookes ,restored my faith ! And welcome ! As I said above the photos that John posted are great , very useful to a carpenter like me nutting out particular ways and sequences .

[Stephen]

Brookes, are you aware of the 'Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter Owner's Association'? They put out an annual magazine (rather high quality) with lots of info and pictures regarding the BCPC's.
In the past the organization has been quite focused on the original boats but given that there are only 17 of them left and that there are quite a few new builds/replicas going on, I think that the road ahead includes replicas in the association as well.
Most of the benefits of the association only apply to people living in the uk - but the magazine itself is worth getting, and the ability to draw on the resources and knowledge of other members with the same boat is valuable too.
If you would like to join - or if anyone would like to join - email me and I can give you a contact address. The newest issue is due out any day now.
Hannah Mae looks terrific - nice work.

[John B]

Ye gods, we've dragged him out of his workshop.

[Ethan]

Can we please get more pictures?? Geesh, it's been like 3 days, ya know!:rolleyes: :D

[PeterSibley]

If you go to Pete's site http://www.heybridge-basin.co.uk/Hannahmae.html it has the whole process under the channel cutter link, from tree/log to milling etc :)

Here you go Ethan .:)

[rufustr]

Brookes,
Amazing project, amazing photos.
Congratulations on your amazing workmanship, and thank you for your website.

[WX]

.but these photos tend to make a bloke a bit consious of the roughness of his work
Don't believe him! Mr Sibley does fine work, makes my work look like it was done on hot day after knocking back a slab of XXXX Gold!

[PeterSibley]

:o:o:o !

[DaveWhitla]

It's fine looking boat indeed. I'd love to see the same being done for the pearling lugger type, it would be a similar size (and construction) hull. It's heartening to see that projects like this are still being done.

Dingo, I've seen Peter Sibley's boat and can vouch for it's existence. Sure, it was just the keel and the stem and stern timbers back then (coupla years ago now at least) but they were pretty massive bits of hardwood. He's building it in a truly lovely rustic shed nestled in the bush, in the very shadow of Mt Warning. Idyllic spot.

Cheers

Tony

Tony,

We have an old carvel pearling lugger on the hardstand at the Maritime Museum drydock at Southbank in Brisbane. It's about to undergo a full rebuild. It's about 40' over all. I'll post some pics if you're interested.

Who is this Peter guy? I'd love to meet him. I'm from Byron Bay, but live in Brissie at the moment.

Dave

[PeterSibley]

Penguin ?

[DaveWhitla]

Penguin ?

Yeah, Penguin.

http://www.ocean.net.au/sailing/woodenboat/_DSC0736.jpg

http://www.ocean.net.au/sailing/woodenboat/_DSC0740.jpg

I am stunned that this nib hasn't split with that many fasteners together.
http://www.ocean.net.au/sailing/woodenboat/_DSC0742.jpg

A lot of the paying has come out of the seams exposing what looks to be hessian rope as caulking???
http://www.ocean.net.au/sailing/woodenboat/_DSC0743.jpg

http://www.ocean.net.au/sailing/woodenboat/_DSC0746.jpg

http://www.ocean.net.au/sailing/woodenboat/_DSC0748.jpg

In other news .... Duyfken will be returning for some major repair work in December. The museum are looking for volunteers to help with the work which will include removal of the mizzen mast, and inspection of the partners, surrounding deckbeams and step for rot.

[PeterSibley]

G'day Dave ...I live outside Chillingham ,just South of the border , love to see you ....send me a PM and I'll give you a phone number etc .

Be good to see th inside of Duyfken too !

[PeterSibley]

Thanks for the photos of Penguin , I have a look at her every time I'm in Bris ...lovely shape ! Be good to have look at her construction .

[DaveWhitla]

...lovely shape ! Be good to have look at her construction .

I don't really understand the long counter stern other than perhaps to allow for a larger main (apparently it was stretched in the 60's).
I think I'll end up with a transom straight up the sternpost with a boomkin for a fixed backstay (as well as a monitor and aft anchor lead). I lean toward maximised waterline for a given LOD. That said this would have to be among the most beautiful hulls afloat ....
http://www.alphasailing.co.uk/photos/Michael6.jpg
If I had the money I think this is what I would have contracted a shipwright to help me build - if only you could have a clear deck with headroom in 36'.

[PeterSibley]

Luke Powell's work ! Very nice :). I reckon you can have full headroom with ,say 12" cabins sides in a 34 foot hull of very similar design at least that what my plans show ,I drew them . (flush would be nice .)

[DaveWhitla]

Luke Powell's work ! Very nice :)

You could be forgiven for thinking so - Luke work IS very nice.
But this is the 60' Fleetwood pilot cutter Alpha - the last of the breed.

[PeterSibley]

Hmmm ,you're right of course .That she looks so much like Lizzie May is a compliment to Luke Powell .I don't think I've got a photo of Lizzie May to post for comparison , pity .

[Paul Pless]

if only you could have a clear deck with headroom in 36'.

LOL... sigh...

[Stephen]

http://www.workingsail.co.uk/ws_pics/LizM.jpg

[Brookes]

Hi can anyone help, with any ideas of a supplier of timber for her planking, i am realy struggling to get anything like enough Kauri to plank her, so looking at alternatives, one alternaive is to ship Larch from Uk probably Barchards.
What is there in Aus or the US.
Realy want 40foot boards x wide as poss.
Look forward to any Ideas

[John B]

Bump for Peter and Mary Brookes.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/227_2792_18.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_3449_19.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_3451_21.jpg

http://classicyacht.org.nz/forum/attachments/img17.jpg

I need to rebuild the photo history.

http://classicyacht.org.nz/forum/attachments/img16.jpg

[Larks]

John, what are these photos? Are they early ones that are part of your "rebuild" of the photo thread?

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG01.jpg

[John B]

John, what are these photos? Are they early ones that are part of your "rebuild" of the photo thread?

Most recent Larks , not my pics .. I'll try and find mine and make the early ones work again. Not tonight though.;)

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG03.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG01.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG02.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG04.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG06.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG05.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG08.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG07.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG09.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG10.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG11.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG12.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG13.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG14.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG18.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG15.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG17.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG16.jpg

[Brookes]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG19.jpg

[Brookes]

New build in New Zealand of 50ft Bristol Pilot Cutter "Hannah Mae". Been back on the job about 5 months and in the process of planking up. For all detailed pics of build see

Brookes Boatbuilders
www.classicsail.net (http://www.classicsail.net)

[PeterSibley]

Amazing ! I'm temporarily speechless !

[PeterSibley]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG05.jpg

Ok ,I've regained the ability to type ...she is really quite lovely :) .Where will you use those rivets ? Not as frame fastenings ,they're already finished aren't they ? Too long for butts .

Are you expecting to need inside ballast ?

[Brookes]

hi peter,the frames are fixed together with them but these particular ones are for fixing the floors to frames.
And yes she will need plenty of internal lead ballast.

[PeterSibley]

Do you have an plan as to how you will secure the internal ballast ? I've got a few ideas for myself ...mine will be 2 ton inside , or thereabouts

[Brookes]

Andrew yes my dads old smack Priscila had concrete level to frames and a load of rusty old iron rattling around the bilge.
I wont be doing that it would be a massive crime to cover Kauri in concrete, i remeber looking in the bilge of another smack dad had for a short time "Our Boys" she had lead ingots approx 300mm X 200mm X 150mm they were a T section the shoulders sat on the frame and the middle was about 25mm clear of planking just loose but i will put a big bronze screw in each,i think this is the way, there will be no iron anywhere on this boat.

[PeterSibley]

For what it's worth Brookes ,I plan slabs of lead in a roughly triangular shape , but with the apex lopped off to the width of the keel ,(essentially the shape of the available space less 25mm clearance by the planking). They should be about 30mm thick and around 30kg .I'll cast up a bronze plate to be lagged to the wood keel with a couple of indexing inverted Vs .There will be cast bronze bars across from the tops of the floors ,the top of the lead being at the same level ,the bars being set into vs in the tops of the lead .

I'd like them to stay there if she ever rolls over !

[Larks]

Stunning work Peter. I've missed this post before though, is this the same build that John started the thread on or a new hull?? (and do you need an offsider over there to help???:o:D)

[peter radclyffe]

fantastic

[Thad]

Excellently done! Carry on! Thanks for the pictures!

[George Ray]

Most wonderful stuff ..... looks to be a world class project.

*******

What is your feeling about cement? I used to think it was a sign of problems and desperation but have had a late in life conversion. My thinking these days is that it is a great protector of both wood and metal and as ACB points out it can promote a sweet bilge by eliminating hiding holes for nasty bits and breeding grounds for bilge monsters.

[John B]

I've uploaded some of the earlier photos to reconstruct this thread but I'm sure there will be wrong photos relative to time .

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_3452_20.jpg

[John B]

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af305/brookes_album/Hannah%20Mae/IMG06.jpg

Nice threads!:D

[Lucky Luke]

Do these guys also build pianos????

Gee, that is top quality work! Bravo! :)

[BETTY-B]

Amazing stuff going on here. Anything new?

DAN

[Sailor]

WOW! Nice work. Inspirational for sure.

[riverat]

Brooksie, are you still insisting "Agathis Australis" be referred to as "Kauri Oak" and that all timber from Gt Barrier Island was reserved for the H.M.dockyard in England? My grandfather logged tracts on there and his timber went to K.T.C. mill in Auckland.

[headonz]

Great work Peter ,all that Kauri ,wow !

I spent "years" restoring parts of the old bath house in Rotorua ,some of that old Kauri in the roof structure is like iron to drill through,they were using only the very best when they built her 1905 I guess ,when they had Kauri to burn.

Words cant describe just how beautiful this timber is to work with as you would know.Looking forward to progress updates.

Whats Colin up to these days,he came down to Rotorua to inspect my 'Golden Cowrie 37' ?

[wizbang 13]

First I've seen this thread. What a nice job. Someone has done this once or twice before. One thing though, (if I may)I like to see the mast step notch deeper than a few inches. If the heel of the mast ever jumps out in a shroud-stretching rollover/knockdown, it'l be the end of a boat.

[John B]

I really do have to get out there sometime... I haven't been able to get away to see Pete , the BCPC and the Rawhiti restoration for a long time .:rolleyes:

I'm sure the 'Kauri oak' is just a typo / error trapped in the website copy, of course Kauri is kauri pine.

Headz...Colin D or Colin B ?;)

Wiz, you might be interested in the Ngatira and Rainbow restorations in here ( bldg repair)somewhere.

[WX]

Brooksie, are you still insisting "Agathis Australis" be referred to as "Kauri Oak" and that all timber from Gt Barrier Island was reserved for the H.M.dockyard in England? My grandfather logged tracts on there and his timber went to K.T.C. mill in Auckland.
There are still quite a number of big trees left.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3331391025_4705f169fd.jpg?v=0

[ssor]

None of my tools are big enough for that project. A 10 inch table saw and a 14 inch band saw just won't do. But there are little boats to be built.

[headonz]

Headz...Colin D or Colin B ?;)

Wiz, you might be interested in the Ngatira and Rainbow restorations in here ( bldg repair)somewhere.

John B I was refiring to his father Colin Brookes , thanks for the heads up ,I'll look those others up, is there a way of saving a thread to "favorites " ??

[John B]

Sure Headz.. just like any website.

Well I hopped on the trolley and took a weee trip out there yesterday only to find the battery indicator going off on the camera at the first shot. Still, I managed to knock a few off.

The BCPC is 'resting' at the moment as the work on Rawhiti takes all the focus for a 2010 launching around christmas sometime.

So some new shots ( which are really repeats of previous) but well worth a look anyway.


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_7252_9.jpg
Rawhiti's cockpit coamings and companionway main hatch assembly beside her.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_7251_8.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_7256_13.jpg
Rawhit's Teak deck bundled up down there too.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_7255_12.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/Waione_photos/BCPC/IMG_7257_14.jpg

[Peacefuljourney]

It'S great work, but it always amuse me this type of construction.
Yes it is massive, yes it is strong and strong never fail.

But at 25knot under full canvas doing 3 knots, this is is worth it to build a massive sailboat to finally ending up using the engine to move it?

[John B]

I don't think it'll be a racehorse, but I do think it will have no problem with 9 knots , easy.

[RodB]

Thanks for a really great thread. Great quality work, a world cruiser equal to just about anything on the water. Please keep posting many photos.

RodB

[headonz]

bump

[John B]

On visiting Rawhiti today I learnt that the Pilot cutter project has stalled and she's apparently going to be sold.
Thats unfortunate but I guess she'll be a viable purchase for someone planning a new boat, certainly the materials gone into her hull are nearly priceless .

[Peacefuljourney]

Still, If you take the number of people that want to build a boat, that can afford a boat that big and that is located in NZ this begin to be quite a few amount of people. On those you need to find someone that love the same design then you and how you've done it... That's getting rare.

The world is filled with half finished wooden boat. Before starting building mine, I have visited around 15 of those and for the reason above I choosed to build mine.

[John B]

Well, you only ever need one buyer for a boat.Or anything for that matter.

A bit of searching took me to a for sale notice on Peters website.

http://www.classicsail.net/

The photos alone are worth the look.

[headonz]

I had wondered about the stall in progress but not unexpected in these times.Someone will get a very rare and beautiful boat though.I'll just keep buying those lotto tickets :)

Thanks for the update John B.

PS,How large is their work force out there ??

[donald branscom]

Thanks for taking the time to share the photos with the world!

[Allison]

it's a really pity that she's stalled, a wonderful project1
i hope that he finds the buyer she needs!

[AussieBarney]

I read and watch these threads and weep. I have been building my boat for over two years and I am not going to put up any photos of the build, because, My efforts are not even in the same room let alone the same class. The only thing I can say is, Thank god for epoxy and its ability to cover up my many mistakes. As some one has said, does the lad make pianos for a hobby? That work is like the stuff my father would make and he was a craftsman with fifty years experience. It is wonderful to see such skill and it is a priviledge to be able sit watch and talk to men who have such skill and knowledge. Barney

[PeterSibley]

Great work Peter ,all that Kauri ,wow !

I spent "years" restoring parts of the old bath house in Rotorua ,some of that old Kauri in the roof structure is like iron to drill through,they were using only the very best when they built her 1905 I guess ,when they had Kauri to burn.

Words cant describe just how beautiful this timber is to work with as you would know.Looking forward to progress updates.

Whats Colin up to these days,he came down to Rotorua to inspect my 'Golden Cowrie 37' ?


A lot of kauri went on ''not so noble'' ends too ,when I was about 6 in Auckland ..1955 ? The council were digging up Queen St and there amongst the mud and rocks where thousands of kauri ( at least I was told they were kauri )'' cobble stone '' blocks .About 8''x 8'' x8'' .Not so noble .

I'm sorry the build isn't going ahead , someone who can finish her will end up with a gem !

[John B]

I came across a slab of kauri this weekend as it happens. Washed up on a rock beach on the island we were at.. about 15 ft long , 10 in x 5, it had been a beam in a building by the looks of the steel bolt remanents.It was too badly damaged and eaten to recover, but I could sense some tension in the air before I decided that.

Pete's workforce ranges between 1 and about 4 or 5 . He'll get a boatbuilder or two or someone skilled in a particular area in as the project demands. Currently he's working alone on the Rawhiti project alongside the owner of the boat.

[Chip-skiff]

A wee swerve— While doing research on shipbuilding history I came across some accounts of NZ kauri being the favored timber for carving the patterns used to make moulds for castings. The relatively uniform density and fine structure made precise shaping easier.

Also read someplace that kauri shipped from NZ in the late 1800s had gone into quite a few buildings in San Francisco.

[John B]

It's wonderful stuff to work with.. cuts like butter.
Giant quantities were exported and a lot burnt in SF in the great fire.

[headonz]

Many of the grand houses of Europe built in the 1800s early 1900s where built of it ,much used as decorative paneling which was then stained-varnished dark brown (urk !!) .In NZ I have found it as window sashes under many coats of paint ,usually white acrylic being the last.If only they new :) ,in shop awnings as 8x2s ,4x3s as bottom plates in two story dilapidated houses but never enough to build a boat out of.

http://www.conifers.org/ar/i/ag-au15.jpg

http://www.terranature.org/kauriTrain.jpg

http://www.kauri2000.co.nz/images/5.jpg

http://www.kauri2000.co.nz/images/7.jpg

This photograph taken in 1971 is the stump of one of the last – and largest – kauri to be cut on State Forest land on the Coromandel Peninsula.
It was cut in April 1970 by the Thames Sawmilling Company on the southern edge of the Manaia Sanctuary shortly before Sanctuary status was proclaimed.
It yielded 89.7 cubic metres of timber.


http://www.kauri2000.co.nz/images/4.jpg

[PeterSibley]

What a bleedin' mess ...what happens when humans with steel axes arrive .:(:(

[headonz]

I wont give you long version but I used to own and work a team of draft horses back in the late 70s and talked to the old buggers that were still alive that new all about the logging of the old days and they told me many logs fell into swamps ,creeks and down gullies and not worth the trouble to retrieve and are still there if you know where to look.Horse or ox teams dont pull stuff up hill real well. FWIIW.

[JayInOz]

A friend of mine and his son were on horseback a few years ago, looking for stray cattle in wild country that was logged about a hundred years ago. He said that one of the logs that had been left behind was so big that the butt of it was almost at eye level when he rode up beside it. Someone on the forum in the last couple of days mentioned Aussie timbers recommended by navy shipwrights. The timbers included white stringbark and ironbark I think- anyway there's a kazillion tons of the stuff around here for any Aussies that want to try milling their own. I dropped some enormous white stringy trees when fencing for a mate about fifteen years ago- beautiful trees with straight grain and clear trunks between thirty and forty feet to the first branches. Anyway I was yarning with him a couple of days ago and those trees are still laying there next to the fence- got me cogitatin! JayInOz

[andrewpatrol]

I'd be out lookin for a big tractor Jay and just keepin quiet

[Portland]

Jay , I can put you on to a bullocky , experienced in dragging out logs .
In fact I think the Bullock Drivers League are having their annual meeting sorta up that way soon , I reckon if you played your cards right you could get a few old timers , and younger bullockies and their teams to recover your logs .
Short of clear felling , nothing can beat a bullock team in timbered country.
He also has some "big wheels".
Regards Rob J.

[headonz]

I'd be dragging a portable saw mill in , before I started to try and pull anything out.

[JayInOz]

Actually the bloke who owns the property where the logs are, borrowed my chainsaw jig about three years ago and it's still there! Just a tram track sort of thingy that you nail to the log, and there's a guide with multiple bearings that bolts to the chainsaw and slides along the track. Max I can cut with it is fourteen feet but wouldn't be hard to make a longer track. JayInOz

[Allison]

Jay, a lot of people use aluminium extension ladders as guides, if you jig can fit to one of them the it makes a ligt and very rigid track for the first cuts. Available in lots of lengths!

[floatingkiwi]

I made a chainsaw jig, got it here somewhere, out of a piece of steel with folded edges that sits across and down each side of a smoothed plank and slides on it. Then on the steel I welded a bracket that upon it is mounted a shaft in a fat bearing that protrudes out the side of the thing with the end the right diameter to snugly fit in a hole I drilled,(that was bloody tricky boring that hole I tell ya),in the bar of the saw, up at the motor end. I could go into the wood as far as the bar would reach down from its point at the hole and as long as the plank, which I mounted on cross timbers that needed to be, not necessarily level with each other but parallel in every way. The plank could be unnailed and moved the same distance across the cross timbers at both ends for the next cut. Works beauty.

[headonz]

Actually the bloke who owns the property where the logs are, borrowed my chainsaw jig about three years ago and it's still there! Just a tram track sort of thingy that you nail to the log, and there's a guide with multiple bearings that bolts to the chainsaw and slides along the track. Max I can cut with it is fourteen feet but wouldn't be hard to make a longer track. JayInOz

Well there you go ,although chainsaw rigs are notoriously high maintenance and cut a big kerf.I was over at my brothers property in Bowerville N/NSW dropping some trees for him a while back.The bloody timber was so hard I was for ever stopping to sharpen the chain and eventually flogged out the bar.

Guess it depends on the timber your cutting but here is the rig with the most purtentual Ive found on youtube yet IMHO.This could be expanded up to cut some very big logs to any length.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFnqeq_GGMo

If it wasn't for the heat and flies I could almost be persuaded to come over and give you a hand ;)

Sorry about the thread drift OP.

[PeterSibley]

I wont give you long version but I used to own and work a team of draft horses back in the late 70s and talked to the old buggers that were still alive that new all about the logging of the old days and they told me many logs fell into swamps ,creeks and down gullies and not worth the trouble to retrieve and are still there if you know where to look.Horse or ox teams dont pull stuff up hill real well. FWIIW.

The same with rosewood over here , it lasts for a hundred years on the ground so old logs are usually pretty good .About 15 years ago there was a bit of a rush when a few blokes started finding big old logs that had been passed up .At $6000 a cub m it was worth while .I found a bit ,but not much .

[Portland]

http://www.abc.net.au/local/videos/2010/05/21/2906236.htm?sitegoldcoast .
Here are some bullockies from last years meeting.
I've got videos of bullock teams dragging out 60ft logs , in very rough country.
Rob J.

[Chip-skiff]

For them that ain't seen one, here's a great big NZ Kauri:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_XAqLuU8H28k/TWNUZEGQRXI/AAAAAAAABJ4/STx9RY8IEPQ/s576/tanemahuta.jpg

A living monument, named Tane Mahuta.

[submariner]

I have been using a very simple homemade chainsaw mill for the last several weekends to mill a large doug fir. It is made by drilling the bar for two 1/2" threaded rods- one at each end. stack blocks cut from 2x2 lumber to adjust the height and put a 2x12 on top to slide along a flat board. It works like a charm. I can cut a maximum width of 22" with a 32" bar. The first cut must be guided by a flat board held level on a row of lag bolts. Subsequent cuts can be guided just by sliding along the flat surface of the last cut.

The jig cost only as much as a threaded rod.

If the logs are too big they can be split into quarters using a couple metal wedges followed by wooden wedges (there is a special name for these that I forget.. glucks or something like that maybe) and then sawn as usual.

The reason I am using this method is because there was no way to get the log up out of the forest except by carrying and dragging up individual boards.

[JayInOz]

Submariner for splitting nice easy straight grained stuff like douglas fir, you should make yourself a froe. Cut off about fifteen inches of a leaf out of an old truck spring, leaving the eye in place. Heat it enough to hammer it flat, and sharpen one edge as you would a chisel or broadaxe. Put in a stout wooden handle about four feet long. You just drive it into the end of the log close to the edge, as far as it will go- probably about two inches- and then twist down on the handle. On really good splitting stuff you can split off really even slabs just a fraction thicker than you are after and it's easy to reduce them to an even thickness. Just google "froe" :) I've made them and used them and they work.
Floatingkiwi the jig I have also necessitates drilling a hole in the chainsaw bar- just grind a more angled end onto a tungsten carbide tipped masonry drill bit and keep it wet while you drill- piece of cake mate:) JayInOz

[floatingkiwi]

http://www.abc.net.au/local/videos/2010/05/21/2906236.htm?sitegoldcoast .
Here are some bullockies from last years meeting.
I've got videos of bullock teams dragging out 60ft logs , in very rough country.
Rob J.

Thanks for that mate. What a great thing it is indeed preserving an art such as this for all to benefit from.

[Portland]

In that video , its just some newer members playing about.Rob Mc Kinnon is the experienced one , but he is a visitor. The Nowra mill still use him to get out special logs , especially things like long bridge timbers.
In one of the videos I've got , an old Tasmanian bullocky towed 2 loaded Kenworth log trucks , total weight 88ton , up a slight incline , with a team of 12 bullocks.
But the beauty of the bullocks is that they can get in to logs , that machinery can't.
Just thought I'd offer it up as an option.
Regards Rob J.

[headonz]

The same with rosewood over here , it lasts for a hundred years on the ground so old logs are usually pretty good .About 15 years ago there was a bit of a rush when a few blokes started finding big old logs that had been passed up .At $6000 a cub m it was worth while .I found a bit ,but not much .

Peter,I didnt know Rosewood even grew in Australia ,it is a beutifull timber for sure ,only come across it as old bed heads ect that still had that wonderful aroma about it.

There are several small very deep lakes in the central north island in NZ that they used to fell these great logs into and raft then across to where there would have been a mill.Scuba divers doing training dives have told me they have seen huge logs settled on the bottom.There were many other great timbers grown in NZ ideal for different parts of boat building ,some of these would be , Matai ,Miro , Totara , Kowhai , Mangeao ( steamed ,you could tie it in a knot) Southern Rata ect, to name some of the more common species , some so dense, sank immediately ,but possibly only just in negative boyancy and would take little to float them.Burnt much midnight oil and brain power devising cunning plans how I might achieve this.The wife would have none of it.!!

[DavidF]

You know you people are at the terminus of an era. In the future people will build wooden boats out of ....
If you know an old-timer who worked the woods, talk to him, learn things, maybe video tape it. At a minimum bring him a bottle and you might score some rare timber.
If you own land, plant trees purposefully.
This knowledge will all be valuable again in a few hundred years.

In the meantime, anybody got a deal of marine ply and epoxy?

[floatingkiwi]

Peter,I didnt know Rosewood even grew in Australia ,it is a beutifull timber for sure ,only come across it as old bed heads ect that still had that wonderful aroma about it.

There are several small very deep lakes in the central north island in NZ that they used to fell these great logs into and raft then across to where there would have been a mill.Scuba divers doing training dives have told me they have seen huge logs settled on the bottom.There were many other great timbers grown in NZ ideal for different parts of boat building ,some of these would be , Matai ,Miro , Totara , Kowhai , Mangeao ( steamed ,you could tie it in a knot) Southern Rata ect, to name some of the more common species , some so dense, sank immediately ,but possibly only just in negative boyancy and would take little to float them.Burnt much midnight oil and brain power devising cunning plans how I might achieve this.The wife would have none of it.!!
Don"t forget Maire, or Black Pine, the hardest timber in the NZ forest. Tools blunten quick but the texture was grainless in terms of woodcarving the stuff.
Southern Rata is a vine, that climbs a tree in an effort to reach the sunlight. Once established, the vines become so thick and intertwined, they meld together and form a single trunk,encapsulating and killing the tree that originally gave it a leg up. Sick and weird. That is why the ratas have a rotten centre. We would marvel at the red splashes scattered across the canopy of the forests foliage on our way to Grandmas,( who just turned 90 , happy b'day Nana),crib nestled in the Sth Eastern Otago coastline near Owaka. Tawanui. Going there now is still really nice except the native forest has been replaced with planted pine. Nothing as near as beautiful as the native forest although our eeling spots that are obviously lining the banks of the River are still clad in native for most parts.

[PeterSibley]

You know you people are at the terminus of an era. In the future people will build wooden boats out of ....
If you know an old-timer who worked the woods, talk to him, learn things, maybe video tape it. At a minimum bring him a bottle and you might score some rare timber.
If you own land, plant trees purposefully.
This knowledge will all be valuable again in a few hundred years.

In the meantime, anybody got a deal of marine ply and epoxy?

Pinus elliotti .... it's not as bad as they say , I reckon it's the equivalent of most of the douglas fir we see .I'd happily build a boat from it if it was all I had ,that and a pile of galv fasteners would get anyone around the world and back .


Headzon ..yep I have a few reasonable lumps of rosewood in my shed ...that used to be house stumps .I doubt I'll ever see a big tree in my life time , they grow VERY slowly .I know where to find a few very small trees .

[Sailor]

So my understanding is that this project is dead (hopefully just for the time being) but the thread lives on.

[John B]

Its not dead, its just sleeping.