alternative energy sources and fleet vehicles

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  • Paul Pless
    pinko commie tree hugger
    • Oct 2003
    • 124841

    alternative energy sources and fleet vehicles

    We have seen some use of natural gas and liquid propane to power some buses in large metropoltin areas. However these programs seem to be rather limited.

    Why havn't we seen the large deliver fleets in the United States, especially the USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc turn to developing fleets of delivery vehicles that use alternative energy sources. One of the largest hurdles to the new technology is the lack of infrastructure to provide the 'new' fuels to the populace. This should not be an issue within fleets of delivery vehicle as the organizations all have their own infrastructure to service their fleets.

    I also find it disgustingly and glaring inefficient that postal vehicles especially, do not use some form of regenerative braking.

    I have other thoughts on this, what are some of yours?

    Paul

    [ 09-15-2005, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Paul Pless ]
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.
  • Dan McCosh
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2001
    • 16375

    #2
    Delivery fleets and other stop-an-go applications already are the main users of both alternative fuels and alternative drives including hybrids. GM started supplying some 250 hybrid buses to Seattle last year; UPS is testing hybrids; other cities are also testing. Other fleets in test include fuel cells and hydraulic hybrids. The latter are being tested on garbage trucks. In most of these cases the actual fuel savings, and more importantly the brake maintenance, pays for the system. So far, it these are the applications that make economic sense, hence are getting most of the effort. The downside to converting such fleets is the limited volume against the retooling costs .

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    • WWheeler
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2001
      • 906

      #3
      Purolator here is driving some kind of propane-powered hybrid.

      ALL of Toronto Hydro's diesel trucks are on biodiesel, and all of Toronto's buses too.

      Comment

      • cs
        Elite Invisible Member
        • Feb 2001
        • 19012

        #4
        Here in Chattanooga, our local bus company, CARTA, operates a free downtown shuttle. Due to the layout of downtown, parking and driving was a nightmare and walking is sometimes out of the question (to far). The city and CARTA looked into various ideas for a downtown shuttle system. The idea of trollys was thrown about, but the city wanted to look to the future and not the past.

        The idea of electric busses came up and was reserched. This was back in 1991. It was found that the technology to build electric busses was available but no company existed that was doing this, but it was possible to set up manufacturing of electiric busses in Chattanooga. Advanced Vehicle Systems, Inc (AVS) was born of this.

        Chattanooga is now the largest user in the US of electric busses and runs daily shuttles throughout downtown.



        Chad
        There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

        Three Little Birds
        Love is My Religion

        Comment

        • Dan McCosh
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2001
          • 16375

          #5
          One of the main hangups in expanding the use of hybrid in buses, etc., is that apparently the method of funding, which is mainly through the federal government,, does not allow amortizing the cost savings. In other words, the funding system for new buses only looks at the original purchase price, rather than the annualized cost based on reduced fuel consumption, etc. Haven't seen this debated, but it would be pretty simple to fix.

          Comment

          • Gary E
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2001
            • 6300

            #6
            Cincinnati and many other cities had electric buses that got the power from an overhead wire and they were removed from service for what ever excuse, such as route changes are easier, yeah right, if you fall for that you really need that land in Fla, because there was NEVER a route changed. The city added routes as they expanded and serviced them with the Diesel Bus, but the old routes were never changed.

            Remember when Los Angeles had trains?.. ya know why the they were removed?... Std Oil would sell fuel, Firestone would sell tires, and GM would build the bus's.

            It's all about BIDNESS...and who scratches who's back...

            Comment

            • cs
              Elite Invisible Member
              • Feb 2001
              • 19012

              #7
              Our electric busses juice up in the garage and than run their routes. No overhead or in the ground power systems, so our routes can change as needed.

              A quote from CARTA's web site:

              While the ridership grew preferences for the "type" of travel began to materialize. It quickly became clear that the shuttle passengers preferred the clean, quiet electric bus. Cases of riders allowing the diesel bus to pass to ride the electric bus were not uncommon;
              Chad
              There are three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way and my way.

              Three Little Birds
              Love is My Religion

              Comment

              • Gary E
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2001
                • 6300

                #8
                Individual "aboard the bus" makes sense today, maybe.

                I am refering to 50 and 60 years ago when electricity was very cheap and derived from coal. Todays barrier in electric cars etc is the battery, make them reasonable cost and the overall cost will come down, right now it only looks good as long as you never have to replace those expensivee batteries.

                There are still 80 yr old trolley cars runing all over Philadelphia,

                Comment

                • George Roberts
                  Banned
                  • Nov 1999
                  • 6617

                  #9
                  I am all for conservation but ...

                  You have to look at the cost per trip and who is going to pay. I am somewhat against the many subsidizing mass transit for the few. (Someone else can prepare the numbers if they wish.)

                  I am also against conservation if the purpose is to divert fossil fuels to other uses. Part of the current problem with conservation is that one purpose is to keep fossil fuels cheap. I am willing to use $2-3/gallon gas tax to fund alternate fuel mass transit. That puts the price of gas up high enough so that fuel saved by the mass transit is not consumed by driving.

                  Comment

                  • Dan McCosh
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2001
                    • 16375

                    #10
                    FWIW The fuel savings in the GM hybrid bus is about 60%. It also runs as all-electric in tunnels, etc. An all-battery bus represents both a battery and recharging problem. The overhead-wire buses were largely discontinued due to the aesthetics of the overhead wires. The basic energy storage capacity of batteries hasn't changed much in the past 100 years.

                    Comment

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