Need Help Keeping out H2O

[planewood1]

Hi Folks:
New here on the forum, new boat owner, old time sailor. I recently purchased an Eastport Pinky Ketch, had it sailed down from Maine to Cape May, then sailed her myself up the Delaware to it's berth north of Philly. She WAS dry as a bone when I agreed to purchase her, but when she arrive in Cape May, she had developed a leak. The "Captain" who sailed her down "needed" to run the engine the whole way, to power his computer. Kind of funny when you think about it. Columbus did not a computer to navigate. Anyway, seems the stern tube has parted ways with her nest, and water leaks in at a rate of about one-half gallon/min from under the tube, just as it enters the surrounding wood. Probably created by a misaligned engine, so I am told, although the vibration is almost nill. I cannot get her hauled out now, as I am iced in, and there is only one yard that will haul a wooden boat on the river. They cannot do it until spring. smile.gif So I have installed shore power to keep the batteries charged, rigged a pipe heater to the bilge line, placed a heater in the engine space, and chewed off all of the fingernails keeping her afloat. And it is COLD out on that river!
Anyway, after several failed attempts with MANY different repair ideas, someone has suggested "SlickSeam". Does this stuff work? Will it eliminate the leak, or at least slow it down, so I can sleep through a night without getting up and bracing the weather to knock off ice from the bilge thru hulls? She has frozen up on me twice and a foot and a half of water in the cabin is TOUGH to bail out in this cold. Plus, it is getting old having to keep switching one bilge line for another while one thaws out.

[Ken Hutchins]

Can you post photos of the offending area?

[paladin]

in a selected area just to one side of the keel, bore a 3 inch diameter hole to the outside to let the water pass through.....

[maa. melee]

attempt to plug up the leak as best you can with some cotton or canvas and let the water freeze. let the cold do the work for you. just watch out for thaws!

[Gary Bergman]

Slick Seam only seems to work for me on minor seepage, not anything such as you are describing. I'd try some 5200 forced in to wherever it's flowing from, held in with a batten, tape, or whatever 'till cured. It'll kick to some degree underwater, as I've used it underwater to fix small tears in caulked seams from the OUTSIDE...Obviously not as good as dry, but it's worth 15 bucks to see if it'll hold you over till spring......otherwise, underwater epoxy, altho I have better luck with 5200...just a thought or two

[planewood1]

Ken:
I will try to get pictures this weekend. Offending area is back behind bilge "bulkhead", just as the tube enters the keel. There is a good 3-5 inches on either side of the tube, but less than 1/8 inch under it. This is because of the angle of the tube relative to the curve of the keel. I will have to pack this stuff in with a tool I created just for this purpose. I have been told that this "putty" needs surrounding surfaces to be wet to work. Not a problem there! And it will cure/set-up under water, at the current temps, and will last for years. I just need it to last until I have her hauled. Then I will repair the tube area permently.
Paladin...will you elaborate on you idea?

[Bob Smalser]

Know a diver with a dry suit?

Pounding some oakum in from the outside might do it.

[Thomas Garber]

Boy does that sound familiar. I had a similar problem with winter icing in my boat's bilge a couple years ago. Depending on the presssure of the leak, slick seam may work. It's a parafin based substance, best for temporary seam caulk, until the wood swells. If you can, try pounding waxed cotten twine or strips of canvas with a flathead screwdriver into the leak. That may reduce it. Have your tried epoxy putty? I would also beware of stray currents from the shore power setting up electrolisis. You may want to hang an extra zinc over the side. If you do get icing in the bilge, it may open up some seams, and increase the leaking. Good Luck!

[Alan D. Hyde]

Foxy Poxy or some similar underwater epoxy putty should stop it until haulout.

Alan

[Buddy]

I had a similar problem with a centerboard pennant tube running through a stuffing box. At the hardware stores in the plumbing section you can find epoxy putties which will set up underwater even, under city water pressure even. Use the heat of a trouble light to hurry up the cure. Can't imagine why you couldn't pack some into where you need it- it's like modeling clay in consistency. This stuff worked so well for me, Id be able to sleep nights in your case.

[Nick C]

Here's a wild idea if none of the others work. Try some sackrete or one of the fast dring cements that work under water.

I don't see the problem really. Just tell your wife and boss that you 'have to' take your boat south to pull it out of the water and fix it!

[Dan McCosh]

Wet-stick roofing cement works under water, on wet wood, etc. I've done some emergency repairs with a rag and the cement and a putty knife on occasion, stuffing the rag smeared with the cement into a wide-open seam. Had mostly good luck, but often the leak is under a rib, and can't be reached this way. Still, it can slow down a lot in hurry.

As for the freeze-up. I've set up pumping systems to run in a hard freeze. First, I wrap the outlet hose and even the through-hull with electric heating tape--the kind they sell for mobile homes. To keep the pump and bilge water around it thawed, I have used a small ceramic heater mounted above the pump, blowing through a sheet-metal elbow made for a furnace duct. The elbow directs the warm air down into the bilge over the pump and in the general area. (you can't point the heater down, as it has a tip-over switch) At 600-watts, it seems to work well below zero. The tape and heater run up an electric bill, but have kept the pump working.

[Dave Hadfield]

Yes, I think the Slick Seam will work.

I have used it to stop water jetting out of the seams of a centerboard trunk -- that's from the inside of the boat, against the flow of water -- when first launched in the spring. I was amazed.

If it's cold, perhaps it would be best to warm the stuff slightly.

Also, very important, will be to grind/manufacture a spatula just the right size and shape to press the wax into that particular leaking seam. Do this. It will be worth your time.

Good luck.

[paladin]

OH!...You want the water OUT!

Truthfully I would just reiterate what has already been said....I think the move to Southern waters is the proper approach...most of the patches work better in warmer weather...

[Paul Silverman]

Here's one more idea that worked as a temporary solution for a significant leak I had. Put a lot of sawdust in a plastic garbage bag that has liberal slices put in it. Tie it to the end of a boathook or other long pole and wave it under the suspected leak source. The sawdust gets drawn into the hole, expands a bit and stops or slows the leak. And no need to get wet.- Also, I strongly suggest using a second pump as a back-up in case your primary pump fails. I used a standard sump-pump hooked directly into the shore station. - And I could use a piece of advice: It sounds like you operate your pump through the batteries and keep the batteries permanently charges via a connection to the shore station. I want to do the same thing. How do you keep the batteries properly charged (as opposed to overcharging or undercharging?)

[planewood1]

Thank you folks for your comments. I will pick up the slick seam, as well as other products, and have at it. I'll keep you posted! (no pun intended) I am also picking up a bubbler to hang under the vessel. This will keep the ice away from the hull and rudder. smile.gif
As of March 30th, I will be living aboard my boat. In the meantime I will be lengthening the cabin, raising the cabin top, and refitting the interior. I will have lot's and lot's of questions for you.
Thank you all for your help. smile.gif smile.gif

[planewood1]

Paul:
I have indeed installed a back-up pump that is hooked to the shore power. The discharge line is run out through the cockpit scuppers. That line too has a heater along it's length wrapped in insulating tape. Both thru hulls for both drain lines are included in the heater/wrap set-up. I also installed a ceramic heater in the engine space, where both lines pass, to keep things extra warm. It remains a toasty 55 degrees in there!
As for the chargers, they both are designed to deep charge and, when complete, switch to what is called a "float" charge. Do not buy chargers without this feature. In fact, I don't know if you even can anymore. The float charge maintains the completed charge without burning up the battery. Also, by having the pump cycling as often as it is, it provides a drain on the system, which allows the chargers to do there job. By allowing the batteries to drain, charge, drain, charge, the life of the battery, and it's performance, is enhanced. Or so I've read. Seems to work very well.
While on the boat, I also run the cabin lights. This seems to help too. I also run the engine, and the chargers are smart enough to allow the alternator to do it's thing, without cooking the batteries. I also fire up the wood stove to take the chill out of the cabin. Within fifteen minutes, the cabin is toasty. This has helped keep out the cold and ice. Never found any ice in the bilges!
Chuck

[paul oman]

I know the rules about self promotion but think the rules need to be bent a bit in this case. Pls forgive me.

We sell several underwater epoxies pastes that should work. I would not use any sort of wax based product as it could leave a mess behind when it's time to fix it right.

The cold temps also rule out most of the underwater epoxies as they generally need about 55 f or so to cure. But we do have a 'fast' underwater epoxy that is more like 'normal' speed in cold conditions (say down to 42 degrees or so).

Assuming you are trying to fix the leak from inside the hull --- you would need to slow the leak down to a trickle or less (stuffing rags etc into the crack) so the the water flow doesn't push away the epoxy before it has time to cure.

we have saved more than one sinking yacht (even have their story on our web site).

sorry to be so commercial - but we don't want the boat to sink!

anyway - best to just call me at progressive epoxy polymers - 603-435-7199.
The stuff is non hazmat, comes in two 1-pint cans. Two day shipping time to you (or could be overnighted for a lot more $)

paul oman

[Paul Silverman]

Chuck, it sounds like you may help me solve a problem. Can you recommend a source and product name for the chargers and "float" feature that you described? Thanks.

[Thad Van Gilder]

what marina are you at? I gotta see this for my self, she sounds like a pretty boat.

-Thad
S/V IVY

[Gary E]

I would call these people, they have a railway and are very helpfull.

JACKS NESHAMINY MARINA
100 RIVER RD
CROYDON PA 19021-7699
215-785-5213

[Roger Cumming]

I have a lot of experience with slick seam. It can be applied only with the boat out of the water. It is not an option if the boat cannot be hauled.

I would advise you to get someone to haul the boat as soon as there is a break in the cold weather. Your boat is in jeopardy if it leaks as badly as you describe.

[Dave Hadfield]

I agree with Roger about hauling the boat and getting at the source of the leak from the outside.

But Slick Seam CAN be used to temporarily stop a jetting leak into the boat. I have this every spring when I launch (after 6 months of drying out) if I haven't pre-soaked enough. My centerboad trunk leaks, since it's difficult to pre-soak. When launched, water jets out from between its planks. I ram slick seam into it to stop the flow, and later, after swelling, the stuff squeezes out.

It's true though, that no glues or epoxies will stick anywhere you've had slick-seam -- not a problem if you'll be making a wood repair.

[ssor]

I did an experiment yesterday with a disposable diaper.these things are filled with a water absorbing polymer in a paper fiber matrix. I removed the outside plastic cover, rolled it up and put it into the end of a 2" pvc pipe about six feet long. Then I poured about a gallon of cold water in the open end with the diaper plug in a bucket. After waiting about ten minutes I was able to fill the pipe to the top without any leakage and I couldn't pull the diaper plug. I think that it could be used in small pieces to temporarily caulk leaky seams.

[ohiomike]

hi
this may sound silly but what about using tooth pics taped in to the leaking area they swell when wet..

mike

[seayou77]

How you making out? BTW if she is frozen solid she she aint gonna sink. A bale of hay sprinkled round the waterline will help avoid damage.
Most important You don't fall in. The boat needs you!
Above advice is all good stuff, glad to hear some boatyards with willing railways came on line.
Your story makes it easier to pony up for the hefty storage bill for dry storage.