Help fixing cabin leaks

[imported_Jimmy]

I'm trying to fix the leaks on the sides of the cabin of my boat and I'm not sure about the best way to do it.

The sides are solid mahogany with an approximately 1/4" gap filled with crumbling calking/filler before a strip of wood along the deck. There is a much smaller gap at the top just under the small overhang of the roof and another strip of wood that is rotting along the top.

I am in the process of removing all the crumbling caulking and rotting wood, but I am not sure whether to fill the 1/4" gap along the bottom with a strip of wood or caulking. Does the wood need to be able to move here a bit or can you glue everything together and seal it up with epoxy?

I have even considered epoxying and fiberglassing over the entire cabin sides (which are only about a foot high). Are there any problems with this approach? Do the cabin sides need to be able to move?

Thanks

P.S. photos of my boat at:

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/ealasaid/

[Scott Rosen]

One way to approach this would be to clean out the gaps. Then slather in a good gooey caulk like sikaflex or polysulfide. Then lay a quarter-round molding in the corner before the caulk cures. Fasten the molding with wood screws, countersunk and bunged.

[Donn]

Pretty boat!

[Mike H.]

Here's an idea that DonnW had in another thread for solving leak problems:

http://www.sportys.com/terryc/images/6462m.jpg

Oh......sorry, different kind of leak problem!
Wow, Jimmy, that is a beautiful boat!

[ 06-19-2002, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: SueH ]

[Art Read]

If I understand your problem correctly, there's a 1/4 "seam" between the cabin sides and the deck planks just outboard of them? Do you know what material was used as a deck caulking compound for the rest of the deck seams? That's what I'd be tempted to try there first. Perhaps with a rope of cotten caulking laid in first? Can't really picture the upper seam you describe. A gap between the cabin top and house sides? Below or above the rotted trim pieces? If it'll eventually get covered up by the new trim, I'd probably just use something like Sikaflex 291 there. (Might work for the other "gap" too, but they don't recomend it for deck "caulking"... Perhaps low UV resistance?) You also want to design your trim with a good "drip edge" that will carry the water away from that joint and prevent it from "wicking" back up in there. That's probably what caused the rot in the first place. I'd hesitate to go with fiberglass at this point. Unless the construction was designed to employ it originally, I don't think it ever really does anything but cover up problems in one area and cause new ones in others. Have you asked the guy who surveyed her for you what he recomends? Good luck with it... She's a lovely boat!

[ 06-19-2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

[rodcross]

Pretty Boat!

My inclination would be to remove the caulk and wood strips, use an excessive amount of polysulfide, (my favorite is 101) and bed a quarter-round of mahogany where the strips used to be.

That's next year's project for me and I'm not looking forward to it. Since quarter round covers the joint between the deck and cap rail as well as the cabin house, that's a lot of screws, caulk and bungs. Gotta be done, though. No leaks yet, but I know they're coming.

[imported_Jimmy]

Starting from the bottom, there is about a strip of wood that goes about 1" up from the deck, a 1/4" gap filled with hard, grey, crumbling caulking of some sort, then an 8-10" solid piece of mahogany, then a thin line of some kind of sealant or caulking, and a 3/4" piece of rotten wood at the top with the roof overhanging about an inch.

I was thinking that a 1/4" of caulking might not look that good, so I was thinking of putting in a thin strip of wood, either with epoxy or with caulking, I just didn't know if that large gap is there for a reason or a strip of wood rotted away years ago and was replaced by caulking. It certainly isn't flexible now.

The strip at the bottom also has some badly rusted bolts or large screws in it. I'm not sure what to do about those.

My surveyor didn't have anything to say about this problem, but he is another story that I really don't want to get into now.

The boat certainly wasn't designed for fiberglass since it probably wasnt invented yet when it was built, but then again neither were many of the other products I am thinking of using. It would be nice to stick to traditional methods and materials, but it would also be nice to have the inside of my boat stay dry.

[pwilling]

What a pretty boat -- I'll have to look out for her if I get that far north this year.

I'd be inclined to resist the 'glass solution, on grounds of both aesthetics and efficacy. Seems like you have to get back to something solid and then build forward. Is the deck planked, and what is on top of the planks? Good cotton corking with polysulphide over that, then bedding compound (one of a gazillion choices it seams) then qtr round set in the goop. This should tighten up the house-deck joint. Is the house deck canvas? It should come over the edge and lie under a drip rail also bedded in googe.

The badly rusted bolts or screws will continue to cause problems. If you don't have to take the whole boat apart to replace them, I would -- probably with bronze. I have both iron and bronze (and copper) in large quantities -- can't see that one is going away in response to the others. If you can't get 'em out, you can try chipping or grinding off as much flake rust as you can get at, then soak the suckers in OSPHO (phosphoric acid) which turns the rust into a relatively inert iron phosphate (Pan Pan, calling Chemist!!), then after that dries soak the works in CPES. Fill gaps with thickened epoxy, paint over, and cross yer fingers.

Keep us posted!

[RGM]

It certainly is a loverly lookin little vessel. So Jimmy, what do you have in the way of a wood boat repair library? Some good reference materials, with illustrations will help you understand the construction of your boat a little better. Bud McIntosh's book, "How to Build a WOODEN BOAT" comes to mind, it has great illustrations and descriptions to go along with them. Sounds like the lower "gap" is the seam between your house sides and house sill. Reef it out, see if you can locate and possibly tighten the nuts for your house side thru bolts on the underside of the house sill (very doubtful, but worth a try), cork it with a thread of cotton as Art mentioned, caulk with polysulfide. Fabricate and install a trim piece to cover your sins. Some describe a quarter round, it will actually end up probably looking more like a batten, kind of rectangular in section with some routed detail and perhaps a drip groove cut in the underside. Easier to screw fasten and bung those. Ideally it will sit down on/overlap the house sill. Kind of depends on what you've got dimension wise. Need more detail. Sometimes it's best to fasten these things on the up hill side of the seam that you are covering instead of both sides. This helps allow for some movement. But again it kind of depends on what you're working with. Great pictures, but it would be nice if they showed some "surgical" detail of your problems. For your upper problems, determine if the questionable piece of wood is trim that is face fastened or integral to the house sides (as in stile and rail construction). If it's trim then consider removing and replacing with suitable/matching material. If integral then it's back to cleaning out the gap/seam, cork with cotton, caulk with polysulfide, fab and install trim to match. Any chance on seeing more detailed pictures? By the way, what's the story on the work boat looking vessel aft of your boat? Looks like an ex-Forestry or Fisheries Patrol boat. They make great yacht conversions, when PROPERLY done. Good luck.

[ 06-19-2002, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: RGM ]

[imported_Jimmy]

My boat repair library is the local public library. I think that in order to understand the construction of my boat I would have to talk to all of the people who have worked on her for the last 75 years. It is obvious that several people with quite diferent skills have worked on her and it is kind of like an archaeological did trying to determine which materials are original and which have been replaced or modified.

The bolts definately cannot be tightened, I am only guessing that some of them are bolts because the bits that come out of the seem are very hard and kind of rusty looking. I will look to see if they can be removed from below and replaced.

I will try to take some photos of the area in question and post them tonight.

I don't know the story on the other boat in the photo, but around here we have a lot of ex-fish boats that have been converted to pleasure boats.

[RGM]

Yeah, sometimes it's like sifting thru dinosaur bones trying to figure out what the original creature really looked like. We call it "shipwright paleontology" around here sometimes. Your house side thru bolts were most likely carriage bolts and driven from the top, or perhaps round bar threaded and nutted up on both ends. Removing them, if possible, without seriously damaging your house sides is probably out of the question. Some more pictures would be great. I think you would enjoy and possibly benefit from owning a copy of McIntosh's book, along with a few others. Try to hunt down a copy. Good luck.

[imported_Jimmy]

I will try to get some more more photos posted tonight. I looked at the rusty bolts from the inside and it looks like a previous owner has already addressed this problem by adding additional bolts, which look fine. I guess I will just try to get as much of the rusted bits of the old ones out before sealing it all up again.

[Ed Harrow]

Jimmy, getting those bolts out should be quite easy*, if you use the technique I used to get out keelbolts. The downside might be slightly larger diamenter holes.

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/harrowhtm/ballast.htm

* Easy. A miserable job that someone other than oneself will have to do.

[Ken Hall]

Sweet lines on that boat, very traditional. You got a good'un--I love it!

I'm the furthest thing from an expert, but given the boat in question, the cotton/polydulfide/mahogany trim/new fastener solution suggested by several others here sounds like the right way to go to me. It has the added virtue of being relatively easy to undo/redo if you need to do something else.

Good luck, and enjoy!

[paul oman]

brush on one or two coats of a thin solvent free epoxy. It will 'leak' into the boat the same way the water does, only it will then harden and seal the 'leak path'. Works great!

paul

[imported_Jimmy]

OK, here is a web page with some photos of what I was trying to describe:

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/ealasaid/cabin/cabin_side.html

[RGM]

Well, that first picture says alot. Somebody has really cobbled the aft corner of your house together. They built a funnel for the water to run thru. I imagine that the port corner is the same? You need to have some significant work done in order to make things really right. However, maybe next year is a better time for that. That will give you time to develope a plan of attack, save up a few bucks and start acquiring the necessary materials (and reference materials). For right now try the epoxy sealer trick as suggested by Paul, especially on and around the rusting iron bolts. Seal up the rust real well or the expanding rust scale will continue to play hell with the rest of your repairs. Follow the sealer trick with the other steps that have been mentioned/described. You'll need to do something different about those upper aft house corners and the adjacent vertical outer pieces. That's not right either. If I get up that way this summer I would like to take a closer look at your boat and really get a feel for what's going on. Was the surveyor from Victoria and were his initials K.R.? I would be suprised if that's the case. By the way, your house sides look to be Burma Teak, wonderful old stuff. You've probably got it all thru your boat. I dont know what you paid for your boat, but she's very nice on the eyes, except for the house top. Looks like someone needed more headroom or something. I think she's worth doing some significant house repairs to.

[imported_Jimmy]

The surveyor's initials were D.S., but they probably should be B.S. If anybody is thinking of hiring a surveyor from lower Vancouver Island with those initials I would recomend talking to me first.