View Full Version : My baby's on blocks, and I'm getting lessons.
We hauled and power washed LOON this morning, and this afternoon, I got lessons in how to replace a worn-out section of worm shoe, and how to pull and replace 6 screws in 2 plank ends to tighten them up to the transom.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p01133bc6327b915ab2f533a038023c9f/fd5f3f6d.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/p0708c32d57d1b7c9afac3395f980f137/fd5f3f6b.jpg
Dave Fleming
08-21-2002, 04:28 PM
Don, where is the yard? Looks like it has been there for a bit.
Dave...it's on a residential canal in Amityville. It's been in operation under the current owner, for 40 years..long enough to be grandfathered in. 2 rail set-ups, and a 2 bay shed. a quarter acre of storage space.
Dave Fleming
08-21-2002, 04:49 PM
Oh, ya think we can buy it?? smile.gif
Funny you should mention that. :D
Problem is, it's a half acre on a nice east-west canal. The land could probably be developed more profitably as residential...I've been noodling it, and am not sure you could run it as a profitable wooden boat yard. Maximum haul is a 36' power boat, or anything with less than 13' of beam... although he can work on much longer ones in the water. It's one of very few wooden boat haulers around here. One rail runs into a shed that'll hold one end of a 12' wide boat, or anything under 20'. The other one runs to an open stretch of land for longer boats.
He's in his late 60's...owns the property outright, and a new house on the next canal north. He only works (for pay) 18-20 hours a week, and want's to cut back on that so he and his wife can travel.
Oh yeah...there's an apartment overhead the shed, which is rented to a polish lady, who's family is spending the summer with her...from Poland. The old man doesn't speak any English, only Polish and Russian, but he's helping out in the yard, and the owner is complaining that the guy has been cleaning the yard and shed, and he (the owner) can't find anything!
Scott Rosen
08-21-2002, 05:42 PM
Nice pictures and nice looking boat.
Mr. Know It All
08-21-2002, 06:00 PM
I wondered why You left Ohio and The Cleveland Indians. I guess I can understand why now. That is one beautiful boat and having a boat yard that close that will haul your boat so you can take care of her must be wonderful.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio
Roger Stouff
08-21-2002, 06:46 PM
She looks as great out the water as in, Don.
On Vacation
08-21-2002, 08:28 PM
CHING-CHING, CHING-CHING, spend on that thing. :D
Yeah, oyster...the expense is killing me. First haul in 4 years, and $180 for the haul and power wash. Boathouses are great for wooden boats.
Thanks Don, It's always a pleasure to see pics. of Loon. She's a beauty!
Thanks all...I just had the pleasure of meeting holzbt (Roger), who is a real wharf rat. Crawled all over LOON and pointed out some fixes that needed to be taken care of.
Lunch break now, then back to move the damn batteries out of the way to get at some loose keel-bolts.
The education continues. Roger found stainless bolts next to bronze bolts, and Paul even found a couple of stainless bolts with bronze nuts on 'em. Old Paul really turned the air blue when he looked inside the bilges and saw the construction methods used to mount the engines. None of these things were in either survey I had done.
Figment
08-22-2002, 01:55 PM
wow. an actual operating marine railway.
the last one of those I can remember shut down about 10 years ago. the winch used to haul the cradle had busted 15 years prior, but he continued to operate, pulling the cradle with a FarmAll.
these days it's just another travel-lift yard.
If you're serious about taking over the yard and it's been there as long as you say, I'd wager that there's some state or federal money available to subsidize you. At the very least you could drum up some publicity and get some local support. of course, it may not put a dent in what the DEP might do to you once you start calling attention to yourselves.....
Well..after wrestling 2 Rolls 8D's out of the battery tray, and removing the tray (the forward port corner required an elbow that bent the wrong way to remove the screw, and, of course, the head was stripped) we found that 3 horizontal 6" by 7/8" oak floor timbers were broken right at the keel bolts. So Paul, who "likes to overbuild" made a pattern, and is cutting 2" thick oak timbers, and replacing the broken ones, and is making 1/2" keel bolts to replace the 5/16" originals.
The good news, is that the starboard shaft log is good for at least 5 more years. It had some surface damage from the dissimilar metal bolts in it, but it wasn't as bad as it looked once we got it cleaned up.
On Vacation
08-22-2002, 03:51 PM
Ching-Ching, Ching-Ching. Day 2. What will tommorrow bring? Tune in for the next edition of the Railway Blues, staring Donna-Dynamite West and his rendition of bilge boy delights. :D
Memphis Mike
08-22-2002, 03:54 PM
So this is where you've been for the past
couple a days. I thought I was gonna
have to call your wife and tell her to
check up on you. What cha gonna do about
the sign?
I keep telling you, oyster...it isn't that expensive yet. I'm on kind of a work-study plan with him. When I do the work, and he only tells me what to do, there's no charge but materials. Today I even learned how to clean out (reef?) and recaulk a seam. Learned what a garboard caulking iron is and how to use it. Learned how to make a pattern for the new timbers( the wood will cost me, and I'll pay $60 an hour for his time on the power tools). It's quite a good deal. I'm saving him time, and me money, by being the gopher, yard gorilla, and carpenter's bench...and learning at the same time.
[ 08-22-2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]
Dave Fleming
08-22-2002, 03:59 PM
It is called being an ***apprentice***.
Not a bad thing for an O&O member with a snifty vessel.
I like that...the Bonnaker's Apprentice.
What's "snifty?"
[ 08-22-2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]
On Vacation
08-22-2002, 04:01 PM
Thats the best way to do it. Then when someone else does the job the next time, you can appreciate how long it takes to do nothing, as the expression goes. That is still a pretty boat. Next year paint her fighting lady yellow.
Dave Fleming
08-22-2002, 04:06 PM
'snifty' Norvegian with a lip full of snoose aka snuff, trying to say 'nifty', ya get the picture?
But don't get too close the spray will kill ya?
<insert big grin here>
Yeah, Bonnaker Apprentice has a nice sound to it.
Now have him teach you how to set pound net stakes as the next lesson.
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
So this is where you've been for the past
couple a days. I thought I was gonna
have to call your wife and tell her to
check up on you. What cha gonna do about
the sign?Haven't even thought about the name board since this began. Dunno yet.
Dave:
"Now have him teach you how to set pound net stakes as the next lesson."
Nope, next lesson is replacing some sisters, and pulling in a couple of sprung planks. The South Bay Strainers arrive tomorrow, so those will be installed, and, finally, someone with the license will paint the bottom..then, to use Paul's terms, "we'll put her over," and start on the pilothouse carpentry.
We're behind schedule already, but I've learned how to drill holes for keel bolts, how to measure to make the bolts, and have made my first ever keel bolts..1 at 17" and 2 at 22" threaded at each end...they are very pretty hardware, but my shoulders are a bit tender.
The three new floor timbers are finished, and painted with cuprinol, drying tonight, and will go in tomorrow.
Two absolutely gorgeous South Bay strainers arrived today. They're cast bronze, and were $150 for the pair ( oyster, "ching ching ching"). With luck, they'll go on tomorrow too...but my mentor only works half a day on Saturday.
I'm having a great time working in this guy's yard, but the teaching is one of the things that is putting us behind schedule. The other thing is that his shop is so incredibly cluttered, that he can't find stuff. He also tends to leave tools and pencils laying in places where he forgets where they are, so I have to keep track of the stuff for him. It took him 15 minutes to un-bury his tap and die set. He knew where it was, but it was under a giant pile of lumber scraps and tools. He also has 67 year old knees, so I'm up and down the ladder every five minutes gophering.
Dave Fleming
08-23-2002, 04:13 PM
Ah O&O East, remember you pay a price for everything in this life. Just depends on whether you think its too much OR a great bargain. Ya folla?
Personally I think you are getting the bargain side of things.
[ 08-23-2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]
No question about the bargain, Dave. It took an hour to thread the bolts, and if he had done it instead of me, they would have cost me an extra $60 in labor, over the material charge. Plus, I got taught how to use a tap-n-die set. Very simple stuff, but I'd never done it before. I wouldn't have known to taper the rod ends on a wheel before starting, and probably would have taken at least an hour just to figure it out.
Memphis Mike
08-23-2002, 06:03 PM
Are you gonna repaint the bottom this year donn?
I'm not, Mike. I'm told the license costs a few grand...or I can do it on my own property, and there really isn't room to have her lifted into my yard. I'm gonna have to pay someone with the license to do it. Hopefully about the middle of next week. You'd be amazed at how good the last bottom painting held up, though...4 years and it still has about 95% coverage.
Memphis Mike
08-23-2002, 06:30 PM
Why do you need a license to paint the
bottom of a boat?
Mr. Know It All
08-23-2002, 08:49 PM
If the guy is willing to teach ya how to do this stuff Donn, you're just gonna have to tolerate the clutter and old knees. Gotta pay yer dues if ya wanna sing the Blues. I suspect you're really having a good time and enjoying yourself. You just haven't realized it yet. :D
Wax on,Wax off.
On Vacation
08-26-2002, 12:07 PM
Day 6, what will it bring?
Ching, Ching, Ching, I hear a distance ring.
The fun is gone,
Withdrawal set in,
Sure miss the AC,
When will this all end? :D
Author:unknown, but sounds kinda fishy.
Progress report...Saturday, we were going to install the new floor timbers and keel bolts, but every time we brought out the tools, it started raining...so the day was a scratch. Sunday and Monday, the bonnaker didn't work, and I caught up on yard work, cleaned the skiff, and started pulling old molding out of the living room and dining room.
This morning, it took us 2 1/2 hours to drive the keel bolts into the new timbers, and drive bronze screws through the bottom planks,into the bottoms of the timbers. Then Paul had to take his wife to the doctor's for a stress test. She's getting her knee replaced in about a month, and they're making sure her heart can handle the surgery. Paul say's if she doesn't get the knee replaced, he's going to remove her leg and make her a wooden one.
For them that's interested, here is a brand new pair of bronze South Bay strainers, sitting alongside the old Groco's that came off the boat:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid29/pf779592881b10c3d51787a0b0636db22/fd58bdb6.jpg
You can't tell from the photo, but they are wedge shaped. The edge of the strainer at the top of the photo is the aft edge, and is about 2" deep. At the forward edge, it's about 1/4" deep. The idea is maximum water flow without catching the ever-present eel grass in the bay.
Mr. Know It All
08-27-2002, 03:04 PM
I'd have to say the boatmeister had his priority's straight Donn. The wife to the Dr. and then, on to your boat.I'm sure you were needing a break from it too. Everything happens for a reason. Part of the Master Plan. Hang in there.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio
Progress report. We got in a full day today ( that's 3 hours in the morning, and 3 hours in the afternoon). We pulled the three old loose keel bolts, and it's a damn good thing this guy caught the fact that they were loose. The were, in fact, broken. They were 5/16 bronze, and all 3 were down to 1/8 at the junction of the keelson and the bottom planks. They were even smaller at the junction of the keel and a 4"x24" keel patch (too big to call a dutchman, I think). This patch, and these bolts were in the deepest part of the keel, at the aft end, approximately in the middle of the cockpit, directly under the battery tray, which holds 2 Rolls 8D's. The bonnaker says that if I had run her aground, or hit a partially submerged log, she would have sunk. We plugged the old holes with bronze rod coated with 5200. He showed me how to chop burrs into the drifts with a cold chisel. The combination of the new 1/2" keel bolts, 3 5/16" bronze drifts and 2" floor timbers should be strong enough to outlast me. Now we're going to go forward and check keel bolts for looseness, and proceed as indicated.
This guy has eagle eyes. He was under the boat this morning, and sez "what's this?" He whips his buck out of his pocket, and starts stabbing my boat, just aft of the port side intermediate shaft strut. We knew there was some soft wood near there, and he found some more. Another unplanned repair, that has to be taken care of before her bottom is painted. (I hear ya, Oyster.)
Then there are the rib sisters that need to be replaced...too short. Then there's at least one rib that needs a sister but doesn't have one.
Top it all off with the rain that has been creeping up the east coast, and is due to hit us tonight, and last thru the weekend. Then Labor Day. She may get painted toward the end of next week..then "put over." After that, the topsides carpentry begins.
The bonnaker's having a ball. He sits there on a bucket and supervises, telling me what to do, and why. He's teaching me alot...but I got to teach him something today. We were going to cut off the extra length tops of the new keel bolts, and none of his power saws would fit between the floor timbers to do the job. "I guess you'll have to use a hack saw," sez he. "Nope" sez me. I climbed down the ladder (86th time today) and went to the truck and brought back my trusty Fein Multimaster...smacked a metal saw on her, and whacked those bolts off in 5 minutes. "That's a handy tool" sez he.
And so it goes.
On Vacation
08-28-2002, 06:02 PM
"Yeah, oyster...the expense is killing me. First haul in 4 years, and $180 for the haul and power wash. Boathouses are great for wooden boats."
We knew there was some soft wood near there, and he found some more. Another unplanned repair, that has to be taken care of before her bottom is painted
"I keep telling you, oyster...it isn't that expensive yet"
Day 8, working kinda late,
Mind a drifting,
Tired of lifting,
Ladder a bitch,
This dirt makes me itch.
Rains a coming,
But can't rush, quit humming,
Looks like it might be tight,
For some enjoyment before a fort night. :D
reddog
08-28-2002, 06:30 PM
donn;
Been following this with interest.Keep at her,you're making progress and getting a first rate education at the same time.Hope your wallet withstands the extraction though.
All the best;Earl
David Kippen
08-29-2002, 12:16 PM
Donn,
What a beauty she is, though!
She's worth the work. She's worth the money. (That's what it's for, right?)
You'll be really happy, when she's floating again, that you took the time, stood the rain, had the patience to do it right.
Keep on going!
David
Ed Harrow
08-29-2002, 04:59 PM
Donn, the only thing better than the deal you've got going is if the boat belonged to somebody (a good friend tho) else.
Good show.
It has been fun, and I'm glad we're getting along. I've broached the potential of me building a boat (shudder) in his shop, with his supervision. He didn't say no. I'm thinking about one of his garvies, so I can get rid of the glass skiff. If that works out, maybe a Seaford Skiff. He has all the jigs, forms, etc.. right there, doing nothing.
Progress report...yesterday was mostly recovering from a 4 1/2" rainfall. LOON had nearly 12" of (fresh) water in her bow (she's resting bow-low in the cradles) and it took over an hour to pump her out.
We got started replacing mixed-metal shaft-log bolts, but visits from cronies made it a slow day.
Today was half-day only, but even though I was there early, the Bonnaker beat me and was already at work pulling the oddest mix of shat-log bolts you can imagine. Some stainless bolts with stainless nuts, some bronze bolts with bronze nuts. One bronze bolt with a stainless nut. Now they're all bronze, and looking good.
Got my first lesson in re-packing stuffing boxes today, and discovered that even though it'ts pretty easy to do, one must own a wrench large enough to open the damn things. We pulled out very little flax stuffing, and replaced it with brand new teflon strands...cut in diameter length sections and installed with care so that the joints of each strand didn't overlap.
Now two days off, and bottom painting scheduled for late next week. We still have a few things that need to be done before she goes back in the water, and he has another boat scheduled in the following week, so topsides carpentry may have to take a back seat. I think I'll leave her there, in the water, and work on the topsides myself (with his advice, tools and wood, of course).
So it goes.
On Vacation
08-31-2002, 06:23 PM
Donn, we make a special tool just to tighten the stuffing boxes because of the many times you don't have the clearance for a large wrench. Get yourself a piece of 1/2 inche flat aluminum not over 12 inches long and one inche wider than the nut diameter. Take the nut shape and cut it in the end to fit the nut. Then taper the uncut end to a nice hand grip size. It will look like a tuning fork. No more fighting with pipe wrenches or channel locks.
Oyster...there's plenty of room to access the nuts..I just don't own a wrench with big enough jaws. He say's hold on...goes into his shop, and comes out with the biggest channel locks I've ever seen...must've had a 4" capacity. Besides, I don't have to worry about the stuffing boxes for a few years again, at least.
[ 08-31-2002, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]
On Vacation
08-31-2002, 07:00 PM
Well usually you they will take a set and most people have to adjust them the first few times out. And also we do that also if we have a packing gland on the rudder shaft. Its no adjusting ever for with them like the channel locks of simular wrenches. But maybe yours won't need them for the next four years till the normal bottom job for your boat.
Yeah..he told me that...I'll buy a big pair of channel locks.."loosen them for long runs, and tighten them for short runs and laydowns."
Much progress to report. The bottom is ready to paint, and the painter will hopefully show up tomorrow. Several seams have been reefed and re-corked...new strainers are installed...transducer is painted...shafts, struts and props are gleaming and ready to be painted...zincs are installed...a little soft wood near a shaft strut has been fixed.
Today was a fascinating lesson. We sistered 3 cracked ribs. We ripped 15 1/4" thick 2" wide strips of white oak, and laminated them in place, slathering them with West System goop between each layer. After 5 layers for each, we drilled for 10-24 2 1/2" silly bronze bolts and installed them. Each sister is fastened through 2 planks on either side of the crack in the original rib.
Tomorrow, we put the batteries back in first, and, if we're still alive, we bolt thru some checked ribs, and start on the hatch in the roof of the wheelhouse.
I have a variety of stuff on my hands and under my fingernail that won't wash off with anything. I have 3 blood blisters on my hands, and a walnut sized knot on the top of my head. But I feel alot better about the boat, and have learned a ton.
So it goes.
PS...the Bonnaker has a right angle cordless drill which has been an invaluable tool in this round of repairs. My question is, how did boat builders and repairers deal with drilling in tight spots when the only drills were augers, braces, Yankees and whipped cream mixer drills??? :eek:
Alan D. Hyde
09-05-2002, 05:21 PM
Donn, get some Goop, a fingernail (surgeon's) brush, and a towel you don't care about.
Most of what the above won't handle will come off if you scrape it persistently, but carefully, with a sharp jack-knife blade.
Congrats on all the progress and learning...
Alan
Johannah
09-05-2002, 06:00 PM
My father-in-law, who was a tool loving machinist, had an amazing collection of hand powered drills several of which were designed for close work or at odd angles. Ever used a breast drill? All the drills are still in the basement of what is now a grandson's house. I like to go down and visit them from time to time. And the clamps, ah the clamps.
Mr. Know It All
09-05-2002, 08:21 PM
Glad to hear it's all coming together for you Donn. I know you'll feel better when she's back in the water. Hang in there. Uh.....how about some pic's? Especially one of the knot on your head.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio :D
Thomas Garber
09-05-2002, 09:51 PM
Don,
I'm curious. Where on the hull are the cracked ribs, and did you epoxy the sisters onto the planking, or to the existing ribs, or both? On my ZEPHYR, I've got more sisters than a nunery, all epoxyed to existing ribs, then fastened with silly bronze through the planks. Works great so far. Also, out here on the East End, we got Bonnaker City, I didn't know they made it that far west.
Figment
09-06-2002, 11:19 AM
shafts, struts and props are gleaming and ready to be painted You paint your props and shafts? that'd be a new one on me. This will sound like a dumb question for sure, but I'm genuinely confused by this.
All I've ever done to props and shafts is to slather them with STP oil treatment (I'm told petroleum jelly works just as well) after the fall haulout, and pull & reinstall props to apply a fresh swab of anti-sieze paste to make the inevitable underwater propchange that much easier. I've never had a problem with corrosion or growth.
what part of the picture am I missing?
footnote: Donn, she's a beauty.
Thomas Garber wrote:
"Don,
I'm curious. Where on the hull are the cracked ribs, and did you epoxy the sisters onto the planking, or to the existing ribs, or both? On my ZEPHYR, I've got more sisters than a nunery, all epoxyed to existing ribs, then fastened with silly bronze through the planks. Works great so far. Also, out here on the East End, we got Bonnaker City, I didn't know they made it that far west. "
Tom, all the rib cracks are in exactly the same place...the turn of the bilge. They are all in the middle 2/3 of the boat, lengthwise. The new sisters are not fastened to the old ribs in any way. The were layed in with 1/4" thick slices of oak, epoxied to each other, and then fastened to the planks with bronze bolts. The Bonnaker calls it "cold bending." This guy was born in Amityville, over the shop he now runs. He's never worked on the east end, but considers himself a Bonnaker, so who am I to argue?
Sailortect...I've only seen painted shafts and props on large ships, like the ore boats on Lake Erie....but the Bonnaker say's that, in his experience, if you use zincs on the boat, painting all the other metal keeps worms and barnacles off of it...so I went with his judgement. When she was hauled, the only place on the bottom that had worm coral and barnacles, was the shafts, struts, and a little on the rudders and wheels. I have periodically scraped the wheels and rudders underwater, but never bothered with the shafts and struts, so they were the dirtiest. It was 4 years since the last haul.
Progress...bottom was painted today, and she looks great! The only other work accomplished was to install teak handrails on the top outboard edges of the wheelhouse, and the batteries were put back in. Like a fool, I did not label which wires came off of which terminals when I removed the batteries, so I have some studying to do tonight before I reconnect them. Instead, I folded back the wires from each terminal, and tucked them under bilge stringers. Unfortunately, the installation of new floor timbers and keel bolts got them all moved around and mixed up. 2 batteries, 2 Guest battery switches, 1 Guest charger, and a couple of unidentified leads. I'll get it figured out...I hope. :eek:
She goes back in the water tomorrow morning. :D
Norske3
09-06-2002, 06:12 PM
Ain't old man McInnis grand...'course dead now..but still grand...a great write-up on him a few years back in WB mag...I got one of his too, only a little shorter at 26 feet...(just happens to be red too..why?..just looks best in red after being dark blue for years).....with the original Palmer Engine!..built in 1958... the engine model called a "Spacemaker"...a six cylinder mounted 90 degrees from the vertical..yup, pistons workin' horizontal!..so no engine box to get in your way..never did a ring job.....an still can get parts!...the block and guts are all International Harvester...talk about a company supporting their product/keeping the customer real happy.. smile.gif
On Vacation
09-06-2002, 08:18 PM
Been painting shafts for thirty years.
Progress report...the Bonnaker changed our plans. He isn't going to be around this afternoon and tomorrow, so we put her back in on Monday morning instead of this morning.
Many thanks to forumite holzbt, who stopped by this morning to watch the launch, and single-handedly figured out how to hook my batteries back up! Roger, I owe you some labor, so if you need a carpenter's weight or a broom pusher in the shop, just holler.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid31/p91346181a2b9624de8799abb586868ba/fd4aa039.jpg
That's "The Bonnaker" Paul Ketcham, on the left, and forumite "holzbt" on the right, guiding LOON out of the railway slip this morning. She's not on blocks anymore, and sipping a little fresh brine.
I stayed around and timed the leakage for a couple of hours, and now just have to go back and check her now and again. Hope to bring her home Friday.
More pics of the splash and the paint job at:
2002 Haul (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291382239)
[ 09-09-2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]
Mr. Know It All
09-09-2002, 12:07 PM
Donn.......I'm sure you feel better now that LOON is back in the water. Thanks for an interesting post and the great pictures. So.....when ya goin fishin? :D
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio
Figment
09-09-2002, 01:27 PM
Painting shafts and props (or not)....
I did some looking and asking around over the weekend, and 2 of the 7 I spoke to paint their shafts, but both said something to the effect of "well, one year I got paint slopped all over the shaft while painting the bottom, so I painted the shaft just to make it look neat". maybe this not-painting-the-metal is a reigonal thing.
Having said that, I think there's excellent merit to the notion of sealing the metal you care about to encourage corrosion of the sacrificial. lesson learned.
Congrats on all the work and on the relaunch. I'll bet you almost feel "whole" again!
Progress report...the hatch is done (except that I have to paint it, construct a lifting device, and install a hatch dog.) I can now stand up straight at the helm, and have lovely ventilation directly overhead.
She comes home tomorrow morning..YAHOO!
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