Some surprising numbers re tsunami aid...

[imported_Daniel]

Good on you U.K and Canada! This is as of today.

Some have been critical of the western countries’ response to the tsunami tragedy. But Canada has been among the leaders in both the size of contributions and the speed of relief efforts. Here’s how a breakdown of the donations to date:

United Kingdom: $115.8 Million

Canada: $53.3 Million

Japan: $48.1 Million

United States: $42.1 Million

Germany: $32.5 Million

France: $24 Million

Italy: Two planeloads of supplies but no cash.





Apparently, more money is being spent for Bush's 2nd inauguration than has been allocated for aid to the victims. Death tolls now numbering 120,000 +.

[alteran]

Donations from individuals or the public sector?
Your figures are from what source?
Does this include the cost of our military aid from the US? From other countries?

Without any details your figures are completely meaningless.

[PeterSibley]

Not competely

[Donn]

Completely.

[imported_Daniel]

Here is the source. http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20041230-008/page.asp

[alteran]

Originally posted by Daniel:
Here is the source. http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20041230-008/page .asp (http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20041230-008/page.asp)Thanks for the "information". It has no details or context, just like your original post.

[yorgie]

I was just listening to CBCradio news and they featured a story critical of the Canadian govt's lack of action.They may as well have promised "One Billion Dollars!",money is useless if it can't be used.We don't have the military transports required to get relief out and the gov't ministers and staff have been on holiday.

Italy's "paltry" two planeloads of supplies have much more immediate value than any politician's monetary promise.

[mmd]

The Canadian federal government has pledged $40 million in aid, plus will suspend all debt repayment from tsunami-affected countries for the foreseeable future to allow those countries to better deal with their internal affairs. As well, Canada has on Thursday (yesterday) sent an advance team to assess how and where our disaster relief can be best put to work. Individual provinces, private businesses (INCO, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, Royal Bank of Canada, the Canadian Auto Workers Union, etc., have all donted between $100,000 - $650,0000 each, and private aid groups are contributing additional funds and materiel. The approximate tally as of a few hours ago was around $55 million and rising rapidly. Much more will be needed to stem disease, re-house the homeless, and rebuild the infrastructure and economies of these countries. Give generously; if you don't feel good about it, somebody will. Source. (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/30/debt-tsunami041220.html)

[DavesFlatsBoat]

But, how much does it cost to bring in Naval vessels that can distill 90,000 gallons of fresh water per day?
Or, how about opperating C130s, C17s, C141s, C5s as part of the relief effort?

I know Britian and Canada will assist with their navies, how many French & German ships will we see?

Yorgie is right, money without means is useless.

[Phil Eves]

Asinine response.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

In addition, the Province of British Columbia has pledged 8 million dollars, and the Province of Ontario has pledged 5 million dollars.

[ 12-31-2004, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[LeeG]

Originally posted by Phil Eves:
Asinine response.well yes it was a lame attempt at ridiculing Alteran,,,the bickering about the veracity of the information and who said what to whom was irritating.

[brian.cunningham]

Originally posted by DavesFlatsBoat:
But, how much does it cost to bring in Naval vessels that can distill 90,000 gallons of fresh water per day?
Or, how about opperating C130s, C17s, C141s, C5s as part of the relief effort?

I know Britian and Canada will assist with their navies, how many French & German ships will we see?

Yorgie is right, money without means is useless.Agreed.
The US is bringing in medical ships. These doctors are trained to go into areas that have been devistated.

They're also bringing ships that make water. It seems kind of ironic, but one of the things most needed right now over there is fresh drinking water.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Originally posted by alteran:
Donations from individuals or the public sector?
Your figures are from what source?
Does this include the cost of our military aid from the US? From other countries?

Without any details your figures are completely meaningless.I can answer that questionfor Britain, as at the moment. The Government originally offered £15M, and the public were encouraged to match this by donations. When the public's donations reached £25M, the Government increased its offer to £50M; as of last night the public had donated £32M and this was increasing at £1M per hour.

The Government contribution is not from the aid budget but from a separateb disasters contingency fund. It does not include military resources deployed, such as transport aicraft and warships, as these are paid for out of the training budget.

A country not mentioned on the list is Sweden, which on a per head basis must be very high up the list of donors, having donated £40M as of last night - population, what, 8M?

[Del Lansing]

Apparently, more money is being spent for Bush's 2nd inauguration than has been allocated for aid to the victims. Death tolls now numbering 120,000 +. So what concern is it of your's? I don't see you jumping on a plane with a shovel and some tools to bury dead and rebuild houses. Just sitting on your fat axe poking buttons on your PC bitching about how much we should be forced to give. Aren't you supposed to be out clubbing baby seals or something?

[imported_Daniel]

So what concern is it of your's? I don't see you jumping on a plane with a shovel and some tools to bury dead and rebuild houses. Just sitting on your fat axe poking buttons on your PC bitching about how much we should be forced to give. Aren't you supposed to be out clubbing baby seals or something?

Geez Del, your post speaks volumes for your ignorance. What concern is it of mine? Well for starters I hear all the time that the U.S. is the one always stepping up and bailing out other countries and never getting any thanks for it, being hated for it, why, this has been brought up in other threads about this disaster. There are other countries out there who help too you know (at least now you should) but somehow dont end up being hated. Of course you dont see me jumping on a plane with my tools etc.., you are in Pennsylvania, I'm in Ontario, where by the way, we dont club seals, just ignorant tourists. Also, if you would be so kind as to point out where I said you should be "forced to give"? Oh yea, another thing, I have volunteered my services over in the areas that need it most, just jumping on a plane with my tools would be foolhardy at best, these things need some sort of organizing, but feel free to do so yourself, maybe we can work together? My fat axe? Canada isnt the country with the obesity epidemic..... that would be yours. :rolleyes:

[ 12-31-2004, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Daniel ]

[mmd]

Uh, Del? Your response is reinforcing the misguided stereotype that Americans don't know anything about the geography of the world outside their borders.

There are no baby seals in southern Ontario.

[ 12-31-2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: mmd ]

[Donn]

Originally posted by mmd:
Uh..http://www.briandiskin.com/Assets/Pissing-Contest-B-W_lg.jpg

[George Jung]

hmmm... accurate AND timely... tongue.gif

[LeeG]

but is the spelling correct?

[George Jung]

Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mmd:
Uh..http://www.briandiskin.com/Assets/Pissing-Contest-B-W_lg.jpg</font>[/QUOTE]I get it; how 'bout another round for the house.... :D

[Boomkin Joe]

"I know Britian and Canada will assist with their navies, how many French & German ships will we see?"

Dec 31 update: 60 million Euros from France and copter carrier Joan of Arc on her way.
I dunno about Germany.

[Art Read]

"...My fat axe? Canada isnt the country with the obesity epidemic..... that would be yours..."


Oh, piffle....

"Introduction

Overweight and obesity in Canada have now reached epidemic proportions. However, the problem of excess adiposity was recognized in Canada almost 50 years ago and was the impetus for the 1953 Canadian Weight-Height Survey (1) . The 1953 survey was the first nationally representative survey of stature and body mass in Canada, and its purpose was to "... indicate the situation as it actually existed and provide a baseline from which further and more complete studies could be started" (1) . Unfortunately, there is currently no systematic monitoring of the population prevalence of obesity in Canada using measured stature and body mass. However, data from a variety of sources indicate that the prevalences of overweight and obesity have increased in Canada over the past 15 to 20 years, in both children and adults (2) (3) (4) . A recent study demonstrated that the prevalence of overweight increased from 48% to 57% in men and from 30% to 35% in women in Canada from 1981 to 1996, whereas the prevalence of obesity increased from 9% to 14% in men and from 8% to 12% in women over the same period (3) . The increasing prevalence of obesity in Canada is consistent with the notion that there is a worldwide epidemic of obesity (5) , and these increases parallel the changes in obesity among children (6) and adults (7) (8) (9) (10) in the United States."

The whole article... (http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/full/10/7/666)

[Larry P.]

"A suggestion by a U.N. official that the world's richest nations were "stingy" irritated the Bush administration, especially when U.S. aid for Asia's earthquake is expected to eventually rise from the millions to more than $1 billion."

Now if we can get passed my **** is bigger than yours we need to realize that the $ aid although necessary is only part of the current problem. In the initial response feet on the ground to rescue survivors and recover victims and get in basic needs the the first priority. I have had some involvement in disaster response, thank God nothing on this level" and I can't even imagine what is going on over there right now. Also before it even starts there will be the inevitable criticisms of how the response was conducted, in many ways this is good and conducted but the responders themselves to help the response to future incidents for the sake of the victims and the people giving their all right now to help I hope that it doesn't turn into another finger pointing exercise later on.

[huisjen]

I'm trying to understand why certain members of this forum are so hostile to trying to put any numbers to the relief effort. They use phrases like "That's none of your business." and "What's it to you?" Is it that you don't want the relief efforts to proceed? Are you embarrassed by them somehow?

Dan

[huisjen]

I just heard on the radio: The US has increased our donation to $350 million. That's better.

Dan

[Art Read]

Well, the State Department has just announced that it has authorised the release of 350 million. For now. No serious person believes that these numbers represent what will undoubtably be unpresedented levels of aid and re-investement.... Worldwide.

(Now, back to your petty pissing and moaning...)

[Donn]

Originally posted by huisjen:
I'm trying to understand why certain members of this forum are so hostile to trying to put any numbers to the relief effort. They use phrases like "That's none of your business." and "What's it to you?" Is it that you don't want the relief efforts to proceed? Are you embarrassed by them somehow?

DanI said that my donation was none of your business because it's none of your business. No other reason. If that's too difficult for you to wrap your mind around, go till a field. tongue.gif

[huisjen]

See, Donn is a perfect example... :rolleyes:

Dan

[Larry P.]

Dan in all honesty I really couldn't care less. Listen as far as I am concerned the numbers pledged by governments are almost meaningless right now. these numbers will vary day to day because right now no one what the price tag is. As far as personal donations that is not anyone's concern but the indivdual.

For me I have given through my church $75, and will give what I can through the forum shortly if I could afford more I would give it. I am also thinking of contacting some people I still know on response teams and considering maybe going over but due to family and personal commitments it is probably unlikely but we shall see

[Larry P.]

And no Donn is not a perfect example, why does it interest you what others give, worry about yourself and let others give what they can. Rember the widow and her mites.

[huisjen]

Larry, let me put it this way: Cheerleading works. Social pressure to do something works. One-upsmanship works. Now there are organizations that deliver aid, that give 100% of what they get, but they still don't give that much because they don't advertize. Getting the media to tell us these numbers is free advertizing to the relief effort. It's good for the business of being human. If Donn didn't want to talk about his personal donation, he could keep his mouth shut. But it goes beyond that. He and others are trying to stifle conversation about the good work that's been done so far, and belittle the effort as a whole. I, for one, take offense.

I agree that the government numbers aren't exact, but they still mean something. Every bit of it means something, perhaps roughly about what will be received, or perhaps only about the spirit of those who offer.

Dan

[Larry P.]

Wothout putting words n Donn's mouth I have a hard enough tim keeping my foot out of mine, I thinks his digs were at those arguing about how much this or that countery gave or is giving which is nonsence.

The simple fact is help is needed it is being given but it will be difficult to deliver end of argument.

[Donn]

Originally posted by huisjen:
If Donn didn't want to talk about his personal donation, he could keep his mouth shut. But it goes beyond that. He and others are trying to stifle conversation about the good work that's been done so far, and belittle the effort as a whole. I, for one, take offense.I haven't belittled anyone's effort or donation. You, on the other hand, have belittled the US government's reactions steadily, as have others who love to bash anything that Bush and his government do. It's paltry. It's too little. It's too late. We're spending more on the inaugural than on Asian relief. The per capita donation is too stingy. Horsehockey! Your government provided 40% of all the aid contributed by the governments of the world this year, before the tsunami hit. $2.4 billion!

Just sit there and shoot your ill-informed mouth off, Dan. How many emails did you send to inactive WBF members, when I suggested it yesterday, to let them know about WB's generosity?

[High C]

Originally posted by huisjen:
[QB]...He and others are trying to stifle conversation about the good work that's been done so far, and belittle the effort as a whole. I, for one, take offense..../QB]Bull, it's your liberal buddies who have belittled this effort, constantly griping that the US and other "rich" nations haven't done enough. I'm not trying to stifle the conversation, I'm trying to stifle the criticism of those who are digging deep and helping. I could name names here, but it's obvious to all who has been complaining, and it sure wasn't Donn, or me, or any of our ilk. It's the usual loudmouth leftists who mindlessly complain about everything that has happened since they lost their stranglehold on political power in this country.

Grow up already. :mad: :rolleyes:

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Just for the record:

Largest bilateral and multilateral aid donors

1. Japan
2. United States
3. France
4. Germany
5. United Kingdom
6. Netherlands
7. Italy
8. Denmark
9. Canada
10.Sweden

Largest Donors as an % expression of GDP

1. Denmark 2. Norway
3. Netherlands 4. Sweden
5. Luxembourg 6. Kuwait
7. France 8. Switzerland
9. Japan 10. Finland
11. Belgium 12. Ireland
13. Canada 14. Germany
15. Portugal
16. Australia
Austria
New Zealand
United Kingdom
20. Spain 21. United Arab Emirates
22. Greece
Italy 24. Saudi Arabia

Largest Recipients of Aid

1. China 2. Indonesia
3. Russia 4. Egypt
5. India 6. Vietnam
7. Bangladesh 8. Bosnia
9. Thailand 10. Tanzania

Largest Recipients of Aid per capita

1. Netherlands Antilles 2. West Bank and Gaza
3. Bosnia 4. Israel
5. Albania 6. Nicaragua
7. Macedonia 8. Honduras
9. Namibia 10. Jordan

These are 2001 figures.

[ 12-31-2004, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[George Jung]

huisjen
.
Member # 3406

posted 12-31-2004 04:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry, let me put it this way: Cheerleading works. Social pressure to do something works. One-upsmanship works Maybe that works for you. Me, I'm much more inclined to 'push back' when confronted by somebody 'bullying me' into doing something - anything - even if I'd been inclined otherwise.
This whole thread started with one of our northern friends' cheap shot at the US, and Bush. What is wrong with you people? You have an incredible disaster halfway around the world, and you want to get into a lib/con pi$$ing match - again?
This forum, at its best, is incredible. I never cease to be amazed at the intellect, the world experience, that is this collection of characters. When you're not busy pi$$ing in each others shoe, there's not a better place on the net. At your worst, this place is just a cesspool. It's incomprehensible why you'd choose that tact. The other is so much more fun, enjoyable, don't ya think?

[Larry P.]

Amen

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

You have an incredible disaster halfway around the world, and you want to get into a lib/con pi$$ing match - again? I don't interpret the first post as a lib/con pissing match. It was a congratulation to the nations who contributed as much as they did. Take a good look at the aid contributors as a percentage of GDP. Those countries are the charitable ones. ;)

[Victor]

So the total of all foreign aid worldwide is about $6 billion?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Not even close. I don't know the figures, but the top ten countries in 2001 that received aid eclipsed 12 billion.

[Larry P.]

Christ almighty. fine the US sucks and doesn't give enough, everyone elsr is better meanwhile people need help Happy New Year.

I am so sick of this place it isn't even funny.

[Victor]

I took that from Donn saying $2.4 billion in US aid was 40% of the total. Just wondering. If the worldwide total is $12b, and if the US gave $2.4b, then that's 20% of the total. I don't know. Does seem like a pretty small amount compared to GDP, but it has nothing to do with Bush. Talk radio sure doesn't care much for foreign aid.

[Steve Paskey]

No offense to any government mentioned (or its citizens), but pledges of aid don't mean much until the goods are in the hands of the people who need them.

Last year, the international community "pledged" 1 billion in aid to help the victims of the earthquake in Bam, Iran. Only two percent of that was actually delivered.

[ 12-31-2004, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Steve Paskey ]

[George Jung]

Originally posted by Peter Malcolm Jardine:
[QB][QUOTE]You have an incredible disaster halfway around the world, and you want to get into a lib/con pi$$ing match - again? I don't interpret the first post as a lib/con pissing match. It was a congratulation to the nations who contributed as much as they did. "


Apparently, more money is being spent for Bush's 2nd inauguration than has been allocated for aid to the victims. Death tolls now numbering 120,000 +. Yeah, PMJ, I can see what you mean. ;) Gotcha. Right....

[huisjen]

Originally posted by Larry P.:
Wothout putting words n Donn's mouth I have a hard enough tim keeping my foot out of mine, I thinks his digs were at those arguing about how much this or that countery gave or is giving which is nonsence.

The simple fact is help is needed it is being given but it will be difficult to deliver end of argument.Well Said.

Dan

[imported_Daniel]

Ok just to set a couple of things straight, it really wouldnt matter to me who was in power, dems, reps, Ralph Nader, who ever. I saw the numbers and thought it worthy of an interesting post. Apparently any criticism of the incumbent is not allowed, period. Hell, I would have posted the same thing about Canada's PM Paul Martin if thats the way it turned out, but you know what? It didnt.

I have no interest in a "lib/con pi$$ing match" as it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, isnt productive and I tend to find both ends of the political spectrum extremely annoying.

Happy New Year

[alteran]

"I saw the numbers and thought it worthy of an interesting post. Apparently any criticism of the incumbent is not allowed, period."

Wrong for me at least. I just find it annoying for you to try to push your anti Bush agenda by posting misleading, unattributed, innacurate, and out of context information.

[imported_Daniel]

push your anti Bush agenda by posting misleading, unattributed, innacurate, and out of context information. Al, re-read the post above yours, I have no anti-Bush agenda. Why am I wasting my breath on you and your misleading, unattributed, innacurate, and out of context information.

[Larry P.]

I hear all the time that the U.S. is the one always stepping up and bailing out other countries and never getting any thanks for it, being hated for it, why, this has been brought up in other threads about this disaster. There are other countries out there who help too you know (at least now you should) but somehow dont end up being hated No Daniel it goes beyond an anti-bush agenda you have an anti-us agenda and like many other who share your antiamericanism you will use anything to demonstrate it even the death of thousands.

[ 01-01-2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Larry P. ]

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I see that Japan has pledged 500 million dollars.

[imported_Daniel]

No Daniel it goes beyond an anti-bush agenda you have an anti-us agenda and like many other who share your antiamericanism you will use anything to demonstrate it even the death of thousands.
Larry, dont be such a paranoid nationalist, and speak less of what you do not know. I have no anti-US agenda either, and am in fact a US citizen, as is my whole family... There is a lot of grey between black and white, one just needs to open ones eyes.

But tahnks anyway, next time I need to know what my "agenda" is I'll be sure to ask you.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

If you don't love the Bush and aren't American.... an agenda you must have tongue.gif

[George Roberts]

Regardless of what is being given. It is what is available and it will be increased until most of the people can take care of themselves.

About the 5 naval ships that can distill 90,000gal/day. While it seems like a lot. There are several million people in need of water. We are talking about cups/person/day. BUT IT IS ALL WE HAVE TO GIVE

It is very hard to move the quantity of goods that need to be moved before people start to die from lack of water, food, or sanitation.

In any case those with the ability will do waht they can for as long as they can.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Well, if you want to see bureaucratic incompetence on a grand scale, follow the canadian response to this disaster. Most of the seniour ministers and the Prime Minister were out of the country on vacation, and did not return until several days after the tsunami came ashore. The Prime Minister was gone a week. Our Disaster response team was not even put on standby until the PM came home. The defense minister Bill Graham (a total incompetent) said that the government would have to determine that the DART team would be of use on the ground before they sent them. :rolleyes:

The DART teams particular expertise is purifying water. :rolleyes: :mad:

I have heard that the US can put 5000 troops fully equipped anywhere in the world in 72 hours. Canada, it seems, can put a bureaucratic cluster**** anywhere in the world almost instantly. :( :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Larry P.]

PMJ, not being that familar with Canda's politics I can't t much except to say that the answer to a disatster response it not alway to rush people right in until you are sure they are needed and can be put to use

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Larry, our current politics right now is a government that has been in power far too long. Big, fat, comfortable government that moves with the speedy decisiveness of a tree sloth. They don't do very much that could be construed as decisive or contraversial... that way nothing sticks to them. As leaders around the world changed their New Years greetings to include this horrific disaster,(including your President) Our PM kept with his taped message because he was on vacation. :mad: He's a bureaucrat, not a leader. This incident is an excellent confirmation of the fact that he cannot lead or make decisions, and doesn't even care to.

One of the advisors on the ground from the DART team said : We are one of the farthest countries away from the disaster, which is why we are slower to react. BULLSHOIT. In an Army CF130, they are only hours away. Canada is a country that often hides from making a decision, in case it's the wrong one, or whatever. :mad: :mad: I'm so fooking mad at our government right now I could spit. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Dan McCosh]

Dunno why anybody would think the U.S. is being "cheap". After all, the $350 million pledged so far is he equivalent of nearly a whole day's expenses in Iraq.

[LeeG]

now Dan don't go exagerating on us,,it's a day and a half.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Don't forget that freedom, and relatively low taxes, are a substantial part of what has made us so economically successful.

In consequence, much of our giving--- which often doesn't register on international comparisons--- is private giving, thru agencies like MAP, Americares, The Heifer Project, or Save the Children.

The effectiveness of many U.S. based charitable efforts is second-to-none.

Alan

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Why does it not register on international comparisons, Alan? Ours does, so I would expect that yours does. Charities report the level of donations, here, so I assume they do in the USA? Or do you mean something different?

[Alan D. Hyde]

See the Editorial, Far From Stingy in the Wall Street Journal Friday, December 31, 2004.

Does anyone here have online WSJ access?

If so, a C & P of that Editorial would be appreciated...

Alan

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Afraid I don't, Alan. But you probably know my view of WSJ editorials , as opposed to their excellent reporting!

[George Roberts]

Andrew Craig-Bennett ---

The US has both public and private charities. Private charities make no public disclosures.

Howard Hughs' death started a private medical foundation (to avoid taxes) that provides a great deal of medical research.

What that research is worth is difficult to say but it has brought more benefit than just spending on immediate needs.

While I share your view of the WSJ's editorials, they do provide some food for thought and should not be dismissed out of hand.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

George - thanks for the explanation. Of course, we also have private charitable trusts, though, broadly speaking, our tax treatment of them is less generous than yours because of traditional public policy concerns about "perpetuities".

But, in a case like this, it would be a very large and exceptionally well organised private charitable foundation which intervened directly . Most such trusts would, if minded to do something, make a donation to a large public charity and in that case the donation would be recorded and shown in the totals for receipts by that charity.

In our case, and, I imagine, also in yours, private charitable trusts are established with a particular aim in view, such as medical research, and are therefore unable to make large general donations.

[ 01-04-2005, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Craig-Bennett ]

[skuthorp]

Well, I have very little truck with our PM and govt, but their response to this has been exemplary and shows evidence of good disaster planning. The defence forces mobilised, medical teams, victim id specialists, heavy landing ships, all the helicopters they could find in 24 hours, water distilling plants and a constant updating of the Govt aid contribution.
Add to this over 85 mill. in private donations to date, and an on-going commitment and seeming flexibility.
Any response would be inadequate, but I think ours is up there so far. The crunch will come in 3 or 4 months time when the long-term stuff needs to be done.
Colin Powell said that this also is an opportunity to cement relations in a difficult area for the west, and he's right, let's hope we have the humanity and the sense to fulfill the promises.

[martin schulz]

What is this?

A competition of who is donating the most?

It is clear though that not all donations are made solely for charity/altruistic reasons. I guess Japan is trying to leave a lasting "imprint" as big-player (there is still the security-council enlargement in discussion). So is probably the US also trying to favour their muslim-democratisation process by impresssing the muslim people in Indonesia.
This is not a criticism, just plain reasoning and if it helps those poor people down there - fine with me.

[formerlyknownasprince]

Yes Martin, I think some do play the "look at me, look at me" game. Most though are content to donate privately for altruistic reasons.

I'm fortunate to work for an very wealthy woman who is prepared to support charity for whatever reason. We have the same deal as WBF is offering. Whenever staff donate to a worthy charity - she matches it dollar for dollar - unlimited. I'll spend the next week trying to drive whatever I can out of my 500 or so staff - quite a large number of whom are from the affected regions.

As for the Australian response (and any other country for that matter) - I beg to differ with Skuthorp - we took far too long, days too long, to respond. Two days after the event we finally got two C130s into the air - to get aid to 5 million homeless. OK, a week on and we've got $2+ billion going in aid - that works out to a measly $40 per homeless person. Geez, that'll go a long way eh?

The UN were reported here today as saying that the 150,000 dead could "increase exponentially". That was obvious from day one.

Yep - 90,000 gallons of water - thats 1.8% of a gallon per person - if we could get it to the people - those that don't die of gangrene, cholera, the squirts..... and so on.


It is going to take a damned sight more than $40 per person to fix this mess. If pushing the guilt button loosens a few more purse strings - then go for it. I'm sure I won't feel guilty if we stretch a few local budgets this week. This situation will allow more people to "make a difference" than anything I've seen on this planet in the last 50 years.

Give for all you're worth folks.

Ian

[Scott Rosen]

Interesting report on CNN this morning. The Cafferty File noted that while the Western nations are fighting over who can give the most, only four Arab nations have donated anything to the cause. Saudi Arabia pledged Ten Million Dollars. That's right folks. The nation that calls itself the soul of Islam has donated just $10 Million to assist an area of the world that has the highest Muslim population.

By contrast, Sanda Bullock, a single American, made a personal donation of one million dollars.

The biggest giver, per capita, of all is Norway, which upped its pledge to 180 Million Dollars; that from a nation of only 4.5 million people. We should all tip our hats to the Norwegians and try to follow their example.

Back to the Saudis. They have been generous in one area--last year they gave 150 Million Dollars to the families of suicide bombers.

[George.]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
Back to the Saudis. They have been generous in one area--last year they gave 150 Million Dollars to the families of suicide bombers.I have seen that presented as an argument for invading Iraq. But of course the Saudis are on our side, so we can forgive their little slips...

[Scott Rosen]

By looking at who gives how much to what, we can see who is part of the solution and who is part of the problem.

Not every nation can afford to be as generous as Norway. But when you look at a country like Syria, which funds the insurgency in Iraq in an effort to prevent democratic elections, but pledges nothing to disaster relief, you get a good sense of the evil nature of facism and dictatorships. In democratic countries, the good will of the average person gets translated into dollars contributed to relief. In a dictatorship, the good will of the average person has almost no effect on governmental policy.

[George Roberts]

Andrew Craig-Bennett ---

My point was that to slice and dice charitable giving to the extent that the U.S. or anyone else has to give the proper amount for this disaster is just wrong.

Everyone in the world gives on a daily basis. No individual or country should be rated by how much they give for this disaster.

The WSJ says that the U.S. charities are having the same problem with this disaster as they did with 9/11. More money than they can handle is being earmarked for this specific event.

Not to offend anyone. The deaths and other problems of these people is only going to amount to 1% or 2% of the local national products. The countries have the ability to pay for their own recovery. They might not have the other resources - enough trained people, enough food and medical supplies or enough time, but the countries are not wiped out.

[imported_Daniel]

Scott, very interesting points you have made, and they make a lot of sense. Just one question though, due to the low amount of money donated from the Saudis', do you think this reflects their style of government? If so, what does this tell us, is it fascist, or dictatorship, or is it based on religion. I have not read much about Saudi Arabia, but am I correct that it is still a monarchy?