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km gresham
09-23-2004, 09:47 AM
Mr. Allawi Goes to Washington
Thursday, September 23, 2004

PHOTOS VIDEO OTHER

WASHINGTON Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi (search) had one big message to deliver from his people to the people of the United States on Thursday: "Thank you, America."

The interim prime minister was making high-stakes appearances in Washington, first addressing a joint meeting of Congress and then meeting with President Bush (search) at the White House. The two leaders will maintain that, despite the doubters, progress is in fact being made by Iraq.

Allawi, a 59-year-old trained neurologist who lived for years in exile from Saddam Hussein (search) and has survived numerous assassination attempts, is on a two-day, whirlwind trip through Washington. After addressing lawmakers at the Capitol, he is scheduled to make a public appearance with Bush in the White House Rose Garden at 12:05 p.m.

Allawi said democracy is beginning to flourish in parts of the country and that the growing insurgent attacks are not signs that the guerrillas are gaining the upper hand but that they are becoming more desperate.

'Thank You America'

Allawi had three important messages for America, the first one being: "We are succeeding in Iraq," which received a resounding round of applause from lawmakers gathered in the House chamber.

http://www.foxnews.com/

[ 09-23-2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

Donn
09-23-2004, 09:52 AM
Very good speech.

km gresham
09-23-2004, 09:55 AM
smile.gif He is a grateful man with great hope for his country and he appreciates the sacrifices that have freed Iraq from the evil and deadly grip of Saddam and sons.

LeeG
09-23-2004, 10:16 AM
I like good speeches.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 10:18 AM
He ought to be grateful. At no cost to him, we installed him as the ruler (unpopular as he may be) of an oil rich country.

The U.S. tax payers have dumped a couple hundred billion into his country and propped up his regime. Halliburton is drilling his oil (at tax payer expense) and piping it into our tankers.

Then we'll pay him for it.

It's like he won the lottery.

Being a puppet president is good work (if you can get it.)

[ 09-23-2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

bottompaint
09-23-2004, 10:29 AM
Somebody B***H slap LBJ!

ljb5
09-23-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by bottompaint:
Somebody B***H slap LBJ!Why? Did I say anything that's not true?

Or do you not like the truth?

[ 09-23-2004, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

km gresham
09-23-2004, 10:35 AM
Dems favorite words: OIL, Karl Rove, Halliburton. Look for them to be interjected into any and every pro-Iraq, pro-Bush conversation. smile.gif

Kev Smyth
09-23-2004, 10:36 AM
I nominate lbj5 for the job, since he feels it is such a choice position!! smile.gif

There's a good chance he'd be dead before the year is out! :eek: :(

Jim H
09-23-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by ljb5:
Then we'll pay him for it.

It's like he won the lottery.

Being a puppet president is good work (if you can get it.)Yep, just ask Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

bottompaint
09-23-2004, 10:42 AM
Hey Kev...I'll pay for the plane ticket!

LeeG
09-23-2004, 10:48 AM
ljb, this is a feel good thread. Say something to feel good.

Jim H
09-23-2004, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by LeeG:
ljb, this is a feel good thread. Say something to feel good.Oil-for-Food Bribery Investigation. That feels good.

[ 09-23-2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Jim H ]

Ross M
09-23-2004, 10:57 AM
must not feed the troll... must not feed the troll... must not feed the troll...

I cannot help myself. LJB5: Show me the support for your "unpopular" contention. Please omit the Fundamentalist and Bathist malarky if you can.

Ross

[ 09-23-2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Ross M ]

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 10:59 AM
"Bribary"? Those are pirates I think. :D

Jim H
09-23-2004, 11:01 AM
The SleezeBS Investigation into the DocuDrama enveloping Rather.

That feels good too.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 11:02 AM
Oh, it could be worse. It could be Bush's first pick (and Laura's personal guest to the State of the Union Address) -- liar, embezzeler, convicted criminal, Iranian double-agent, Ahmed Chalabi.

Doesn't it bother anyone that our invasion of Iraq was orchestrated by a man who is currently living in Iran and supporting our enemies?

You want me to say something to feel good about? Okay -- Thank god the FBI and the CIA didn't let Bush get away with that!

Jim H
09-23-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Peter Malcolm Jardine:
"Bribary"? Those are pirates I think. :D :D Another cup of coffee is in order, I think...

JimD
09-23-2004, 11:06 AM
Ljb is right. He has a huge vested interest in showing such cheery gratitude. Its too early to say much else about him.

bottompaint
09-23-2004, 11:13 AM
Rather's mistake is taking on a criminal facet. Publishing false hoods and fruadulet rumors in an attempt to influence a US Presidential election.

Considering the fines following Janet Jackson's "exsposure".....the Justice Deptment, F.B.I., F.C.C. should make thier budgetary land falll from CBS fines.

Dan Rather is guilty of Treason. Using false information, poising it as fact and reporting it over and over in an attempt to influence a US Presidential election.

I thought I put this on another thread...tried to delete it twice and here it still is.
I got gremlins in my puter.

[ 09-23-2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: bottompaint ]

ljb5
09-23-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Ross M:
Show me the support for your "unpopular" contention.Ross, why would I post anything that I don't know to be true? I might as well change my name to "Kev Smyth" and work for the GOP.

Of course I can back it up. If you'd spent 30 seconds on Google, you could too, and I wouldn't be condescending to you like this.

From Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,644477,00.html)


A poll conducted in May by the Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies (ICRSS) asked Iraqis to rank 17 prominent religious and political leaders. Iyad Allawi, Prime Minister of the interim government that will take over administrative power from the Coalition Provisional Authority on June 30, finished in sixteenth place. Behind him, dead last, came Ghazi al-Yawer, who on Tuesday was named president of the interim government.
Why do Iraqis have such a poor opinion of Allawi? Sadoun al-Dulame, executive director of the ICRSS, pointed to one reason: "Every newspaper that has reported about his appointment has mentioned his CIA connection."
Since Allawi will be the one running the government, his lack of popularity could be especially problematic.This article was written in June and ends on a hopeful note:


"I don't care who their masters are CIA, the Saudis, Iran as long as they stop these daily bombings and provide jobs for people," said Assad Faazi, a Baghdad job-seeker. "I will forgive them everything if they make my life better."Hmmm, stop the daily bombings? Nope. Provide jobs for the people? Nope. Made life better? Nope.

[ 09-23-2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 11:17 AM
I'll try to be objective:

First of all, there are a lot people in Iraq who are grateful for the removal of Saddam. There are also, obviously, a lot of people who dislike the occupying force. The war, is not going well, and Iraq teeters on the edge of civil war. The current Prime Minister, installed by the current american administration, is not even a democratic reflection of what the people of Iraq want. Elections, if and when the country is peaceful enough to hold them, will determine the direction the populace wants to take.

Last but not least, his appearance in the US is timed, strangely enough, with a looming election. People have a reason to be skeptical of such an appearance. After all, can anybody expect this man to come to Washington and be critical of America's policy in Iraq?

bottompaint
09-23-2004, 11:18 AM
Rome wasn't built in a day. You Lib's point fingers at every imaginable "mistake".

I feel alot safer in the US today then I did September 12th 2001.

Elmer Jenkins
09-23-2004, 11:18 AM
Now I'm just a chickin farmer but what baffles me is why are they cutting people's heads off if they want democracy so much? Why is the war still going on and the body count still going up? Afterall, Bush said we would be greeted with open arms.... :confused:

bottompaint
09-23-2004, 11:20 AM
They are chopping heads becuase it garuntees media exsposure throgh-out the world. No one...not Pepsi nor Coca-Cola or anyother industry could afford $$$$$$ to buy that type of coverage. These groups get if for 1 simple beheading.

[ 09-23-2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: bottompaint ]

km gresham
09-23-2004, 11:27 AM
Terrorists have taken up residence in Iraq and THEY are murdering innocents. The terrorists are desperate as Iraq moves closer to Democracy and the terrorists will be rooted out and destroyed.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by bottompaint:
You Lib's point fingers at every imaginable "mistake".Invading a country because of the policy of a convicted criminal and Iranian double agent was a little more than a boo-boo.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 11:33 AM
Terrorists have taken up residence in Iraq and THEY are murdering innocents. There have been well over 10,000 civilian deaths in Iraq. Are those people innocents?

Alan D. Hyde
09-23-2004, 11:35 AM
ljb5, last year, according to the LAPD, there were 502 gang-related deaths in Los Angeles.

Nationally, surely there must have been at least ten times that many.

Are you in a constant state of fear? Is democracy impossible? Or are facts being tortured and truncated to fit the Procrustean beds into which ideologue Black Sox insist they go?

Alan

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 11:38 AM
feel alot safer in the US today then I did September 12th 2001. Then you are easily scared, and easily comforted.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Alan D. Hyde:
ljb5, last year, according to the LAPD, there were 502 gang-related deaths in Los Angeles.Wow! 502 deaths. You'd think we would care about that instead of spending all of our time and money in a foreign country.

You estimate at least 5020 deaths every year? That's more than 9/11 - and that only happened once, three years ago. You'd think that we would do something about it.

No, I don't live in constant fear. Admittedly, I don't hang out in South Central L.A. either.

You think we ought to invade L.A. and torture some prisoners? Find whatever natural resources they have and claim them for ourselves?

I don't see your point. Are you saying that we have problems at home that can be solved but they are less important than problems abroad?

Or are you saying that problems at home can't be solved, but problems overseas can?

km gresham
09-23-2004, 11:45 AM
And here's Kerry's view of Iraq's future. He says Allawi is a liar. Way to encourage those who are fighting tooth and nail for democracy - sort of the way we did for our own democracy.

Shortly after Allawi, the interim government's prime minister, gave a rosy portrayal of progress toward peace in Iraq, Kerry said the assessment contradicted reality on the ground.

"The prime minister and the president are here obviously to put their best face on the policy, but the fact is that the CIA estimates, the reporting, the ground operations and the troops all tell a different story," Kerry said.

Allawi told a joint meeting of Congress that democratic elections will take place in Iraq in January as scheduled, but Kerry said that was unrealistic.

"The United States and the Iraqis have retreated from whole areas of Iraq," Kerry told reporters outside a Columbus firehouse. "There are no-go zones in Iraq today. You can't hold an election in a no-go zone."

Kerry's remarks come one day after he told The Associated Press that President Bush's statement that a "handful" of people are willing to kill to stop progress in Iraq was a blunder that showed he was avoiding reality.

Kev Smyth
09-23-2004, 11:48 AM
Alan :D

The libs hate this. Despite the best efforts of the media, good news and gratitude are coming out of Iraq! Since the only remaining chance of their winning the coming election hinges on the American publics complete rejection of the war effort, this is not good news.

The liberal mind, a captive of the TV reinforced 30 minute attention span, can't conceive of an effort that may require years of "failure" before success dominates. And any sign that even the smallest success may be occurring is cause for disbelief and panic.

Kerry's latest lie is that Bush will reinstate the draft. :rolleyes: :eek: How desperate will they get? ;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 11:50 AM
While I know John Kerry is running for president and has every reason to contradict the present administrations outlook on Iraq, I think his opinion is closer to reality than President Bush's. Allawi's appearance in the US is diplomatic stage acting, nothing more. Speeches like Allawi's are admirable words, but the reality is far distant.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 11:51 AM
He says Allawi is a liar. Please provide a link to that specific remark.

Joe (SoCal)
09-23-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by bottompaint:
Somebody B***H slap LBJ!bottompaint....your cruelty to your wife and others deminishes my enjoyment of the WoodenBoat Forum. I am sending Scot a link to this thread.

Anyone else that is insulted by this thread, needs to do the same.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha :D :D :D tongue.gif

km gresham
09-23-2004, 11:58 AM
I seem to remember the "reinstate the draft" thing comes out every election if we have any sort of military action going on.
Among other accusations of what Republicans will do:

Starve the school children
Take medicine from old people
End Social Security
Start a war

What am I leaving out?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-23-2004, 11:59 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He says Allawi is a liar.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please provide a link to that specific remark.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 12:01 PM
He says Allawi is a liar. Well, is he?

The CIA and the FBI and the news say every day that Iraq is in trouble.

Allawi says it isn't.

Better to call a liar a liar than to be one.

km gresham
09-23-2004, 12:09 PM
"The prime minister and the president are here obviously to put their best face on the policy, but the fact is that the CIA estimates, the reporting, the ground operations and the troops all tell a different story," Kerry said.

Kerry maybe should have waited at least an hour before attempting to criticize the President and Allawi following Allawi's expression of gratitude for the sacrifices of America on behalf of his country. At least Kerry could have said "we're glad to have offered support for your country in escaping the horrors of Saddam and sons."

Guess not.

Maybe Teresa can call Allawi and Bush "idiots and scumbags" for good measure.

[ 09-23-2004, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

ljb5
09-23-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
"The prime minister and the president are here obviously to put their best face on the policy, but the fact is that the CIA estimates, the reporting, the ground operations and the troops all tell a different story," Kerry said.So what's the problem?

You don't believe the CIA? You don't believe the news? You don't believe the troops on the ground?

Or you don't care?

Let me guess, everyone is just saying it for politics -- everyone except for Bush and Allawi, who would never sugarcoat anything for political reasons.

km gresham
09-23-2004, 12:19 PM
I don't believe the news. CBS is an example of the "news".

ljb5
09-23-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
I don't believe the news. CBS is an example of the "news".I don't believe Bush. WMDs are an example of what he says.

How many people died for CBS's story?

ljb5
09-23-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
I don't believe the news.How about the CIA?

Kev Smyth
09-23-2004, 12:24 PM
jlb5- take a deep breath and slow down. Try to focus on the little things that give you pleasure. :cool: Relax....... there ya go!

I sense it's going to be a tense next couple of weeks. I'd suggest contacting these folks for some Valium for now, and anti-depressants in mid November:

www.cheap-meds-online.com (http://www.cheap-meds-online.com) :D

[ 09-23-2004, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

JimD
09-23-2004, 12:27 PM
And history records how grateful were the people of Iran for having the Shaw Palavi returned to his rightful throne as well.

JimD
09-23-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Kev Smyth:
...The libs hate this. Despite the best efforts of the media, good news and gratitude are coming out of Iraq!... (edited by JimD)Kev, the hand picked guy gets an all expenses paid trip to America to say thanks to the guys who picked him. This is what passes for good news? Somebody write me a check for a few billion and I promise to spread the good news.

Kev Smyth
09-23-2004, 12:56 PM
Well, lets look at some facts then- although they won't diminish your hate for our president or this action. Twelve of the fifteen provinces in Iraq are stable enough to have elections now. The other three are coming along, and elections will be held early next year. They may not be perfect, but they will be a great start! :cool:

How many years has it taken South Africa to get some semblance of stability and democracy going? Was it worth the turmoil that accompanied initial efforts?

Your negativity and defeatism close your eyes to the possibility of ever seeing any good. :rolleyes: :(

[ 09-23-2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

km gresham
09-23-2004, 12:58 PM
TWO DISASTEROUS MOVES BY KERRY [09/23 01:06 PM]

Kerry just made two moves that I think are tremendously boneheaded mistakes. The left and the right agree that Iraq is Issue One, that you cannot be elected president unless the American people think you handle this difficult and important mission over there. Kerry came out as the anti-war candidate this week, and I thought that was a much stronger position than his "well, I support the troops, but not the mission, sort of, but, you see, this, but that", etc.

But if you want to be the next president, and the Prime Minister of Iraq comes to Washington to address a joint session of Congress, where should you be?

In the U.S. Capitol chamber!

Not in a Columbus, Ohio firehouse!

Senator, if you win, you're going to have to work with this guy - or his successor. Kerry should have tried to get a meeting with Allawi himself, to try to make the challenger look like Bush's equal (when foreign leaders come to the U.S., they often meet with leaders of both parties on Capitol Hill. It's just common courtesy and protocol).

Major mistake number two: Even if you can't be there, you don't take a jab at Allawi.

"The prime minister and the president are here obviously to put their best face on the policy, but the fact is that the CIA estimates, the reporting, the ground operations and the troops all tell a different story," Kerry said.
Allawi told a joint meeting of Congress that democratic elections will take place in Iraq in January as scheduled, but Kerry said that was unrealistic.

"The United States and the Iraqis have retreated from whole areas of Iraq," Kerry told reporters outside a Columbus firehouse. "There are no-go zones in Iraq today. You can't hold an election in a no-go zone."

Smarter tone: You try to co-opt Allawi. "It was great to see the leader of Iraq come to America and thank this nation and our men in uniform for all that they have done for his nation. I understand that during this time, he feels a need to stand in solidarity with President Bush. But frankly, I think the Iraq people would be better off with a broader coalition, and assistance from around the world. Prime Minister Allawi probably couldn't say this in front of his hosts, but it's clear that this policy hasn't worked the way we hoped, and it's time to try a different strategy. We need all of our allies working at our sides in this..." Etcetera.

Instead, Kerry is essentially calling Allawi a liar, and continuing his gloom and doom rhetoric about Iraq. Major, major miscalculation, in my humble opinion.

Donn
09-23-2004, 01:09 PM
Psst...Karen...it's disastrous. I'm trying to ignore these things, but when it's all caps, it's just so...well...Joe-like. ;)

km gresham
09-23-2004, 01:17 PM
Donn, I didn't write any of it - its totally C&P - looks like I'm not the only poor speller. smile.gif

JimD
09-23-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Kev Smyth:
Well, lets look at some facts then- although they won't diminish your hate for our president or this action. Twelve of the fifteen provinces in Iraq are stable enough to have elections now. The other three are coming along, and elections will be held early next year. They may not be perfect, but they will be a great start! :cool:

How many years has it taken South Africa to get some semblance of stability and democracy going? Was it worth the turmoil that accompanied initial efforts?

Your negativity and defeatism close your eyes to the possibility of ever seeing any good. :rolleyes: :( I'm all for the elections going as planned. That will be good news. I meant only that Allawi's gratitude is so predictable its more like no news than good or bad.

km gresham
09-23-2004, 01:31 PM
The fact that this man is free to live in Iraq following the defeat of Saddam and is able to come here and express gratitude and and hope and determination for a free, democratic Iraq is news.

Maybe not news some appreciate in light of the political campaign here, but it is definately news - good news.

Good news for America and Iraq is bad news for the Kerry campaign. Period.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 01:33 PM
Unless beheaded hostages and dead soldiers are a good thing, something bad is going on in Iraq.

In 1992, Bush lost because he wouldn't admit what was obvious to everyone - the economy was in trouble.

In 2004, Bush insists that everything in Iraq is perfect.

km gresham
09-23-2004, 02:21 PM
I've heard him say that things are not perfect in Iraq - that's why we're still there. He said things are improving in Iraq. And that Iraq is on track for holding their elections in January.

I don't think I ever heard him say things are "perfect" in Iraq.

LeeG
09-23-2004, 02:34 PM
Karen, things are not improving in Iraq from a standpoint of security for Iraqis or soldiers.

[ 09-23-2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

Donn
09-23-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by LeeG:
Karen, things are not improving in Iraq from a standpoint of security for Iraqis or soldiers.Yes, they are.

Joe (SoCal)
09-23-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
Psst...Karen...it's disastrous. I'm trying to ignore these things, but when it's all caps, it's just so...well...Joe-like. ;) :D :D :D funny

LeeG
09-23-2004, 03:10 PM
uh huh

Jim H
09-23-2004, 03:34 PM
I caught a few minutes of the speech, there was a lot of enthusiastic applause from both sides of the aisle. 30 minutes later, Kerry responded with a news conference on Vietnam. Did you know that he served in Vietnam? First time I've heard about it. :rolleyes:

Elmer Jenkins
09-23-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
Psst...Karen...it's disastrous. I'm trying to ignore these things, but when it's all caps, it's just so...well...Joe-like. ;) I bet you were standing with your hands on your hips and your head cocked at a jaunty angle when you said that.

LeeG
09-23-2004, 03:49 PM
babe, you're so viscious!

George.
09-23-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Kev Smyth:
Twelve of the fifteen provinces in Iraq are stable enough to have elections now. The other three are coming along, and elections will be held early next year.
That, in fact, is one of Allawi's gems. The idea that you can have fair elections while leaving out the rebel-held areas. And Bush apparently agrees, judging from the noises coming from his administration. Hey, maybe you can have elections in the US while leaving out those pesky New England and New York liberal-held areas!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-23-2004, 04:13 PM
George - I think you're onto something! ;)

Kev Smyth
09-23-2004, 04:28 PM
Republican strategists have considered two scenarios. The first is a mass mailing reminding all democrats to "Vote next Wednesday," (8.5 X 11", orange letters on a blue background, free "elect John Kerry' refrigerator magnet included), one that has proven effective in the past. Second is a co-ordinated and heavily promoted 24 hour festival of Gilligan's Island reruns, to be played continuously on Fox Family Channel during election day.

While the second approach has shown high promise in early focus group studies, with no one leaving except to pee, the critical nature of this election has caused some to shy away from "experimental" efforts. ;)

George.
09-23-2004, 04:44 PM
If the go ahead with elections in the current security situation, I can't wait to see how many Iraqis actually dare to stand in line to vote - given what tends to happen to people in Iraq who stand in line for things that the Allawi government organizes...

Jim H
09-23-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by George.:
If the go ahead with elections in the current security situation, I can't wait to see how many Iraqis actually dare to stand in line to vote - given what tends to happen to people in Iraq who stand in line for things that the Allawi government organizes...Yet, day after day they get back in line knowing that they could be targeted by a suicide bomber. I think you're on to something George.

JimD
09-23-2004, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
The fact that this man is free to live in Iraq following the defeat of Saddam and is able to come here and express gratitude and and hope and determination for a free, democratic Iraq is news.

Maybe not news some appreciate in light of the political campaign here, but it is definately news - good news.

Good news for America and Iraq is bad news for the Kerry campaign. Period.Certainly Bush's good fortune is Kerry's bad but words are one thing, democracy and elections another. The proof will be in the pudding. All Allawi's visit really proves so far is that the US controls air traffic in and out of Baghdad.

km gresham
09-23-2004, 07:00 PM
Allawi is expecting Iraq to be secure before the elections. That was his point - that most of Iraq is secure now and they are working hard to complete the task, in spite of the nay sayers and the American press.

ljb5
09-23-2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
most of Iraq is secure now and they are working hard to complete the task, in spite of the nay sayers and the American press.Two months ago, more of the country was secure.

Last week, the Green Zone was breached.

Things are moving in the wrong direction.

LeeG
09-23-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
Allawi is expecting Iraq to be secure before the elections. That was his point - that most of Iraq is secure now and they are working hard to complete the task, in spite of the nay sayers and the American press.Karen, nay sayers and cheerleaders don't change the reality over there. There is such a thing as objective reality.

http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=540294.html

ljb5
09-23-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Kev Smyth:
LIER!! Where's Donn the spelling officer when we need him?

George.
09-24-2004, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by Jim H:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by George.:
If the go ahead with elections in the current security situation, I can't wait to see how many Iraqis actually dare to stand in line to vote - given what tends to happen to people in Iraq who stand in line for things that the Allawi government organizes...Yet, day after day they get back in line knowing that they could be targeted by a suicide bomber. I think you're on to something George.</font>[/QUOTE]Sure, if you pay them to vote like you pay them to join the police, with 80% unemployment you'll get some of them to stand in line. ;)

LeeG
09-24-2004, 04:55 AM
Alawi links Saddam with attacks on the US. Weren't people worried at one time that rock and roll would cause teen pregnancies and drug use?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/j uly-dec04/allawi_9-23.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec04/allawi_9-23.html)

JIM LEHRER: What would you say to somebody in the United States who questions whether or not getting rid of Saddam Hussein was worth the cost of more than a thousand lives now and billions and billions of U.S. dollars?

PRIME MINISTER IYAD ALLAWI: Well, I assure you if Saddam was still there, terrorists will be hitting there again at Washington and New York, as they did in the murderous attack in September; they'll be hitting also on other places in Europe and the Middle East.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
then there's that perception problem,,people just aren't looking on the bright side of life-M.Python
Positive aspects,,like the UN/NGOs leaving, no change in electricity/water. What was the perception problem we had with Nixon,, check,, natering nabobs of negativism. Vietnamization was right on course. The light was at the end of the tunnel. So with all these new terrists flowing into Iraq we should,,review Rumsfield/Wolfowitz assumptions, what else can they learn on the job for the next exciting phase in the American Enterprise Institute Plan.
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JIM LEHRER: You just said it now about the press, the media and the United States; you said that the media is giving oxygen to the terrorists. What do you mean by that?

PRIME MINISTER IYAD ALLAWI: Well, I mean by that focusing on the negative aspects and talking about the negative aspects only and the media is really in a way an encouragement to the terrorists; it's very simple. We know that - I know - I come from Iraq; I am the prime minister of Iraq; I know there are problems in Iraq. I know security is not safe 100 percent; I know there are enormous problems in various parts of the country.

But I know as well that a lot of good things are happening. I know a lot of successes have been achieved. And Najaf and Talafa and Samarra and Basra and Diwaniya, and Karbala, a lot of successes; I can't read on these successes in the press; these are successes not only for Iraq but successes against terror, against terrorism -- who have been trying to undermine not only Iraq but rather the whole world.

JIM LEHRER: So you're not -

PRIME MINISTER IYAD ALLAWI: And that's why I say it is unfortunately some media when they focus only on the bad events, they give oxygen to terrorists -- this is unfortunate; we should all close ranks; we should all work together; we should all send the same message that things will be steadfast against terrorists until they all go to justice and until the world is a much safer place.

JIM LEHRER: Just for the record, Mr. Prime Minister, you're not suggesting that the media not report the bad things, are you?

PRIME MINISTER IYAD ALLAWI: No. No. I am suggesting that there are focuses on the negative aspects. I haven't said what kind of a conference has been held in Baghdad in August and how the various Iraqis who came from different backgrounds, religious, ethnic and so on - women and men - from all over Iraq came to participate in a democratic practice to prepare for the next phase, which is the forthcoming elections in January.

This is something positive; this is something that the Iraqis and the friends of Iraq have lost lives to achieve a level of unacceptable democracy moving forward towards a full election in Iraq; this is something very positive. I haven't read a lot in the press about this. You know, when I read and people read that, you know, there are suicidal bombers and there are problems in Fallujah and Fallujah and Fallujah, this is fine; this is happening.

But this is - don't forget - this is a war; this is a big war. People are coming to Iraq from as far as China, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan.Terrorists, they are trying to kill; they are trying to commit murders; and they are doing so.

So what is happening in Iraq really is a global phenomenon; it's not only to Iraq. That's why I would like to see in the media a fair assessment of what's happening and a realistic assessment of what's happening.

JIM LEHRER: Alright, sir. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you very much.

[ 09-24-2004, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

LeeG
09-24-2004, 05:26 AM
Falluja isn't big,,only 280,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falluja

ALAWI: I only hear the story of Fallujah, and Fallujah does not represent the whole of Iraq. It's a tiny village -- city, and the province of Umbara -- the rest of Umbara is very good, is very quiet and very positive. So really I don't know what and I really don't want to be dragged into the problems of the internal politics; we are interested in the support of the United States for us, the Congress for us, and the American government for us, to Iraq. This we feel is very vital.

bottompaint
09-24-2004, 03:57 PM
Karen, Kerry is the "sacraficial candidate". The DNC knew they did not have anyone that could successfully oppose President Bush....and so they backed Kerry.

The postings by LBJ and Joe and Lee make for great entertainment. THEY actually believe Kerry-Edwards are contenders.

BWWWWWHHAAAAAAAA!!!!

Alan D. Hyde
09-24-2004, 04:20 PM
Baghdad is 5.6 million, approximately.

If you're used to a city of that size, 280,000 looks small.

It's like comparing Boston to Colorado Springs, which might look little to a Bostonian...

Alan

George.
09-24-2004, 04:24 PM
The most comically tragic part, perhaps, is Allawi being called a "prime minister."

A prime minister, as far as I know, is the leader of the majority group in an elected parliament - as democratic a figure as there is. "President" is a word that haa been corrupted long ago, with all the "president-for-lifes" in Africa and Latin America.

Iraq never had an election, has no parliament, and Allawi was appointed by the occupying power - he's little more than a CIA mole. But they call him "prime minister..." Talk about newspeak...

LeeG
09-24-2004, 06:12 PM
If Baghdad is one of those provinces not quite under control then it's a big chunk of the country.

Nightmoves
09-25-2004, 06:25 AM
Wasn't long ago that Cincinnati, Ohio had an uprising that if timed during an election period would have caused some heartburn. Losers can't be allowed to gain control of anything....especially liberals in elected office. tongue.gif

LeeG
09-25-2004, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by km gresham:
Allawi is expecting Iraq to be secure before the elections. That was his point - that most of Iraq is secure now and they are working hard to complete the task, in spite of the nay sayers and the American press."expecting Iraq to be secure"
"most of Iraq is secure"

Stan,,if a loser is in office he's a winner.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-iraq-street-story,0,299474.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

ljb5
09-25-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by LeeG:

Stan,,if a loser is in office he's a winner.

Even if he had to get his dad's former Secretary of State to sue all the way to the Supreme Court.

LeeG
09-25-2004, 01:18 PM
honestly I bet nightstanmoves is some kind of computer program,,it's not right.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-25-2004, 04:12 PM
"There is something nauseating about Alawi being given a Roman Triumph in the United States, scripted by Bush's speechwriters, in the interest of Bush's re-election, whilst Iraq disintegrates"

British MP DR Jenny Tonge, on the BBC political programme "Any Questions", this morning.

Osborne Russel
09-27-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Peter Malcolm Jardine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> feel alot safer in the US today then I did September 12th 2001. Then you are easily scared, and easily comforted.</font>[/QUOTE]It's easy when's it's imaginary. Just let in enough facts to construct your defenses. There was no western imperialism in the middle east; "terrorists" and Saddam Hussein came from nowhere (i.e. spawn of Satan) and attacked America, and we invaded Iraq. Now, you're with "us" or against "us". End of story.

LeeG
09-27-2004, 04:31 PM
immaculate conception.

"a few thousand dead enders, foreign fighters, al qeda, and saddamists fighting against democracy"

"5,000"

"20,000"

They just pop up. Like intel. Saddam made us do it.

CHeck out the numbers for newly trained police GW mentions in his speech to the UN,,he said 100,000 fully trained. Abazaid said fully trained means beginning the first part of training. Turns out that there are about 8,000 that have gone through the 8week course with a total of close to 22,000 that can be put on the street to write parking tickets and grab thieves. An anti-insurgency force of 18,000 hasn't even started training. That's the force of Iraqis who will have to shoot Iraqis. When GW said it'll be 135,000next year it turns out that'll be in 2006.

He's one resolute president looking on the bright side of life. Like Wolfowitz.

Anyone want to talk about "sex with that woman"? as in "I did not have..."

"General,,you've got 75,000 troops to start this war with 75,000 in a few more weeks, let's roll"

"did you have sex with that woman?"

"it was bad intel"

"shinseki is far off the mark"

"at least 250,000 troops"

go, go, go Godzilla,,Godzilla.

"the plan is the first thing to fail when the war starts"

"there are known knowns, unknown knowns, and known unknowns"

sing it.

LeeG
09-27-2004, 04:33 PM
Imagine Freddy Mercury singing Wolfowitz..

"I had a plan...."

htom
09-27-2004, 04:57 PM
http://iraqpundit.blogspot.com/2004/09/allawis-visit.html

Allawi's visit

Iraq Pundit has avoided commenting on Allawi's visit to the United States because we didn't want to get caught in U.S. election politics. But we do want to note the following: Seemingly everyone has had something to say about the prime minister's U.S. visit with the exception of one voice. That voice belongs to the Iraqis, whose very existence has been overlooked by a sneering press corps.

We've heard all kinds of reactions from the press. Bush is dishonest when he said things are getting better in Iraq. Sen. Kerry asked whether Allawi was living in some fanatasy world when he said that democracy was taking hold in Iraq. Some critics have been particularly snide. Maureen Dowd in the New York Times compared Bush and Allawi to puppets. Dowd writes "It's hilarious that the Republicans have trotted out Mr. Allawi as an objective analyst of the state of conditions in Iraq when he's the administration's handpicked guy and has as much riding on putting the chaos in a sunny light as they do."

This is a laughably parochial reaction. Does Dowd think that Allawi is only talking to her and her ilk? Iraqis know very well that Allawi was flown to the United States for U.S. election purposes. What Dowd forgets is that Allawi knew that Iraqis too were listening to his speech. As a leader, he has to sound positive for his own people about the future of the country. Morale is vitally important to the nation's future.

It's exactly that future -- the Iraqis' future -- that Dowd can't be bothered with. To her, it's an occasion for cheap sarcasm. "Faced with their dystopia," she writes, amusing herself. "the utopians are scaling back their grand visions for Iraq's glorious future."

Critics like Dowd see Iraq and Iraqis as beyond redemption, if not beneath contempt. Certainly, they are not worth bothering with or thinking about. Not everyone has abandoned the Iraqi future. For example, David H. Petraeus writes in the Washington Post that he sees tangible progress. The Army Lt. General, who is training Iraq's security forces, writes there is reason for optimism. One of Dowd's own colleagues writes in today's New York Times that if the U.S. were to withdraw, Iraq would only get worse.

But it's the Dowds who seem to have the floor. The vast majority of Iraqis who want to make the country succeed and are willing to take risks and work hard to achieve that goal are all fodder for her snide jokes. Rest assured, Iraqis know Allawi's history very, very well. Iraqis know about his Baathist past; they know that he is no Nelson Mandela. But for now, he's their chance. For figures like Dowd, Allawi and indeed all his fellow Iraqis are just punchlines. But if this is about sarcasm and jokes, we'll see who -- the Iraqis or the sneering press -- has the last laugh.

LeeG
09-27-2004, 05:27 PM
oh those Dowds,,,so how can we hear the Iraqis? How about journalists who report from Iraq?

the thing worth noticing is the distinction between police and anti-insurgency forces like those that bolted before Falluja.
http://www.iht.com/articles/539770.html

[ 09-27-2004, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: LeeG ]