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Joe (SoCal)
03-15-2005, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
Sorry, Commodore, but you don't grow them, at all, around your parts. :rolleyes: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/hudson/sturgeon2.gif

Aside from seeing them myself , here is a documented account.
http://www.hudsonriver.com/almanac/0400alm.htm

April 22 - Cold Spring - It was a warm day on the turbid river. The Hudson River sloop Clearwater was in the heart of the Hudson Highlands dragging its trawl near the bottom of the river. When the net came up we found a delightful little Atlantic sturgeon, 11 3/4" long, probably a yearling. We kept it only long enough to measure and show the school kids on board. For them, it was their first sturgeon! Allyson Bizer, Erin Murphy
Baby Atlantic sturgeon are rare in the Hudson River estuary. So rare that the crew of the Clearwater was concerned the Almanac might think they were making this story up. At such a small size, their sturgeon was one of the rarest in the estuary. Commercial fishing for sturgeon in the Hudson River, and on most of the Atlantic coast, has been closed for three years, due in part to the fact that the spawning adults are not producing strong year classes of baby sturgeon. The brightest and best of fisheries biologists do not know why.
Croton Point - Barn swallows, chimney swifts, and house wrens had returned; violets, splurge and black mustard were in bloom. Christopher Letts

http://www.hudsonrivervalley.net/themes/sturgeon.php

Now I don't nearly know as much as you do about fishy and flowers but I sure know I what I see when I sail ;)

I wonder if I will ever see -

Ya know Joe, I was wrong - Donn

:D :D :D

Joe (SoCal)
03-15-2005, 08:44 PM
Governor Participates in Release of Atlantic Sturgeon in Hudson River

Governor George E. Pataki recently participated in the release of 89 Atlantic sturgeon into the Hudson River as part of New York State's ongoing efforts to study and restore the species to the historic waterway. The fish, some as large as four feet in length, range from six to ten years old and are the offspring of sturgeon collected from the Hudson River more than a decade ago.

Governor Pataki releases an
Atlantic sturgeon into the
Hudson River

"The Atlantic sturgeon represents all that is unique and fascinating, but also vulnerable, about the Hudson River," Governor Pataki said. "Bringing this wonderful fish back to the Hudson may not have been possible years ago, but the fact that we're fortunate enough to release these sturgeon today illustrates the tremendous progress we've made in restoring the health of the river."

"We're proud that our efforts have helped create a cleaner, healthier and more vibrant Hudson River, which is supporting a diverse array of fish and wildlife and providing new and exciting opportunities for recreation and environmental education. Through our partnership with local governments and environmental and community organizations, we are achieving our ambitious goals for the Hudson, leading a renaissance along its shores, and improving the quality of life for our children and generations to come," the Governor added.

Sturgeon Study

Sturgeon are inspected
before they are released

The sturgeon release at Haverstraw Bay County Park in the Village of Haverstraw, Rockland County, is part of a project undertaken by the State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), in cooperation with the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) to research the habitat use, movement, homing instincts, and health of wild and hatchery-raised immature Atlantic sturgeon in the Hudson River Estuary. Two other releases took place at different locations on the Hudson River in May and June of this year. As part of the project, a total of nearly 350 Atlantic sturgeon, all from the USFWS hatchery in Lamar, Pennsylvania, will be released into the Hudson River.

DEC Commissioner Erin Crotty
releases a large sturgeon
into the Hudson

The sturgeon are being sonic-tagged, released, and monitored to provide information about behavior and movement of wild and hatchery-raised Atlantic sturgeon, both in the Hudson River and along the coast. The project will identify habitats that are used by immature Atlantic sturgeon in the Hudson River Estuary and along the Atlantic coast. Based on the results, information could be used to protect critical habitats or determine which river system the hatchery-raised fish will ultimately return to for spawning. It is not known how hatchery fish imprint on their natal river. For instance, because the fish came from Hudson River parents, but were hatched and reared on a tributary of the Susquehanna River, it is not clear which river they will return to for spawning.

"Albany Beef"

An adult,
Atlantic sturgeon can
grow as long as
15 feet and weigh as
much as 800 pounds

Historically, the sturgeon was a major food fish in the Hudson Valley and was commonly sold as "Albany beef." Sturgeon was so abundant that they were stacked like logs on the decks of sloops and steamboats bound for market. However, ten years of over fishing culminated in a population decline in the mid-Atlantic states in the late 1980s. In 1998, the Atlantic sturgeon fishery was closed throughout the East Coast due to over fishing. Today, Atlantic sturgeon remains a protected species in New York State.

Successful Efforts

Efforts directed under the Hudson River Estuary Plan have been integral in developing life history information, habitat use information, and population level estimates for Hudson River Atlantic sturgeon and the federally endangered shortnose sturgeon. Through the Estuary Plan, an overall assessment of the health of these fish populations was determined and restoration efforts were initiated. Because it takes approximately 20 years for a female sturgeon to reach sexual maturity, biologists estimate it may take 40 years or more to re-establish enough mature sturgeon so that the species can withstand the resumption of a limited harvest in the Hudson River.

DEC Commissioner Erin M. Crotty said, "Governor Pataki has long recognized the importance of the Hudson River to the citizens of New York, and that recognition has translated into a renaissance for one of our state's most important natural resources. Efforts to rid the river of pollution, to protect habitat along its shores and to provide access points for hundreds of communities have led to a dramatic turnaround in the health of the river and have made initiatives like today's sturgeon release possible."

Commonly six to eight feet long and known to reach fourteen feet, Atlantic sturgeon is the largest species of fish found in the Hudson River. They have been known to live well beyond 50 years.

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/environmentdec/2004b/haverstraw3.jpg

Donn
03-15-2005, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):

Now I don't nearly know as much as you do about fishy and flowers but I sure know I what I see when I sail ;)

I wonder if I will ever see -

Ya know Joe, I was wrong - Donn

:D :D :D That's right, you don't know nearly as much as I know about a lot of things. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop you from talking about them.

FYI, the fish you posted from the Oregon site, is not the same fish they've planted in your river. But don't let that get in the way. The devil is in the details.

Joe (SoCal)
03-15-2005, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
FYI, the fish you posted from the Oregon site, is not the same fish they've planted in your river. But don't let that get in the way. The devil is in the details.http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/environmentdec/2004b/haverstraw3.jpg
Governor Pataki releases an
Atlantic sturgeon into the
Hudson River

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/environmentdec/2004b/haverstraw3952.jpg

DEC Commissioner Erin Crotty
releases a large sturgeon
into the Hudson


Originally posted by Donn:
Sorry, Commodore, but you don't grow them, at all, around your parts. :rolleyes: but you don't grow them, at all???? The devil is in the details. Donn ;)

[ 03-15-2005, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Donn
03-15-2005, 09:16 PM
It ain't the same fish, pinhead. Read my lips. You aren't growing White Sturgeon in your river, you're growing Atlantic Sturgeon. They aren't the same thing. It's sort of like comparing Striped Bass to Sand Bass.

Joe (SoCal)
03-15-2005, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
It ain't the same fish, pinhead. Read my lips. You aren't growing White Sturgeon in your river, you're growing Atlantic Sturgeon. They aren't the same thing. It's sort of like comparing Striped Bass to Sand Bass.Whatever Donn :rolleyes: ya still sound like a little girl on the phone and now you wine like one.

Hey Governor Pataki will probably be at Guinan's Thursday night ya want me to say thank you for releasing Atlantic sturgeon into the Hudson River for ya?
tongue.gif :D

sturgeon is sturgeon to this Irishman ;)

[ 03-15-2005, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Jack Heinlen
03-15-2005, 09:28 PM
Okay, okay, okay. So what sturgeon is native to the Hudson? Is there a viable population now? Can you get caviar from them? tongue.gif

I'm not sure what you two are arguing for.

Larry P.
03-15-2005, 09:31 PM
The Atlantic Sturgeon is native to the hudson River

Jack Heinlen
03-15-2005, 09:41 PM
Thank you Larry, I presumed so. I just wanted our two testosterone poisoned rock-em sock-ems to pause for a moment.

They are magnificent fish. I wonder what the species is in Mullett Lake. An inland lake in the Great Lakes drainage, maybe thirteen by five miles in size. They pulled some BIG fricken sturgeon out in the winter. As I understand the way, you chum and bring them to the surface, where you spear them with a trident. The biggest ever caught was pushing 800. I wonder how old it was. Must have been many decades. Kinda sad. That big ol fish, living long through it all, suddenly speared.

It was always a dark mystery to me who caught bass and perch in the summers.

Donn
03-15-2005, 09:42 PM
"sturgeon is sturgeon to this Irishman " "this irishman" wouldn't know a Sturgeon from a Carp.

So...ya saw one whilst sailing, eh? One of the 6 times you've sailed, you saw a bottom dwelling fish, of which there are very few copies in the entire river. It must have known that JOE was there, and surfaced just to light your way, eh? Fish Wiz that you are, you recognized it immediately, right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Joe (SoCal)
03-15-2005, 09:45 PM
FIRST DONN SAID

Originally posted by Donn:
What a cute baby sturgeon!Then Donn Said

Originally posted by Donn:
Sorry, Commodore, but you don't grow them, at all, around your parts. :rolleyes: Finally when Donn is cornered he gets as technical as he can


Originally posted by Donn:
It ain't the same fish, pinhead. Read my lips. You aren't growing White Sturgeon in your river, you're growing Atlantic Sturgeon. They aren't the same thing. It's sort of like comparing Striped Bass to Sand Bass.Let me ask you did the word WHITE ever come from Donn's lips ??? In the first place.

Hell if White Sturgeon did live in the Hudson the next thing Donn would be crying about is they are the wrong SHADE of White Sturgeon :D :D :D

Oh and if all else fails fall back on being the SELECTIVE spelling police :rolleyes:

Donn
03-15-2005, 09:51 PM
Typical know-nothing pinhead reaction, starts SHOUTING when he know's he's been bettered.

Google it, Joe...educate yourself, instead of pretending that you know.

You post a pic of a fish from the PNW, and then try to convince us that it swims in your river. You saw them when you were sailing, eh, old salt?

{chuckle}

Joe (SoCal)
03-15-2005, 09:59 PM
I sail better then you ;) FWIW I think I got in about 20 sailing excursions last season. I have to check my log. It may surprise you but I don't post EVERY sailing trip ;)

Ohh and this year I will be crewing Weekends and racing out of Nyack Boat Club on a C&C 30.

Wednesday night I may race a Catalina 34 tall rig on Haverstraw Bay.

In addition to COMPLETING restoration on a NEW sailboat.

Hows that Skiff under the carport coming Admiral Donn???

BWAAAAA HA HA :D

Edited to Add: Don't forget sailing with Uncas up to Newport. You think you will ever get out of your little canal sailing this season ???

[ 03-15-2005, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Jack Heinlen
03-15-2005, 10:03 PM
My my my. So Donn's correct, no white sturgeon.

I got them good ol' sturgeon fritters. I've got baked sturgeon, I've got planked sturgeon, I've got sturgeon brothers and sisters, I've got weak sturgeon, I got strong sturgeon, I got ugly sturgeon, I've got pretty sturgeon. I've got pagan sturgeon, I got sturgeon that got religion, I got a sturgeon that can whistle dixie. I've got frank sturgeon, I've got demure sturgeon, why hell I got sturgeon in the back of the tent you don't want your chillens to see.

:D ;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-15-2005, 10:21 PM
Unky Doonn knowd eveythwang. tongue.gif

Donn
03-15-2005, 10:32 PM
"20 excursions" a-ha-ha-ha..."Check my log" BWAHAHAHA! And the Sturgeon saw you and came up jumping around your boat! The old salt of the river.

Throw the Sturgeon a line, next time, and they'll tow you back to your jeep, so you won't have to row for 4 hours.

Hey ookhnem, hey oohknem Yesche ras hey ookhnem

Wild Dingo
03-15-2005, 10:33 PM
You two still at it eh? come on fellas let it go move on and enjoy it

Sturgeon is fish right? So go fishin catch some sturgeon take pics feast up! Who cares if its white sturgeon black purple spots sturgeon as long as its edible!!

A fella down here cought a ripper of a JewFish the other week was a record "good ol 60lber" so they reckon took a pic and all... cause thats rather moot now since he ate the ruddy thing after bein told it was under the record by some joker at the fisheries dept... {who by the way was the fella with the present record so he still holds it cheeky blighter ;) }... kickin hisself he is but then as I always says "fish is fish is fish catch em weigh em gut em fillet em EAT EM"

Fish ooooh yeah :cool:

LisaS
03-15-2005, 10:33 PM
For what it's worth, we have Atlantic sturgeon at the aquarium that were caught in the Hudson River near the Bear Mountain Bridge.

Lisa

Mrleft8
03-16-2005, 08:55 AM
Isn't this a "Madonna" song....?

Memphis Mike
03-16-2005, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Mrleft8:
Isn't this a "Madonna" song....?But of course! "Like a sturgeon, caught for the very first time....." smile.gif

-Sue

[ 03-16-2005, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

Krueg
03-16-2005, 10:30 AM
Donn, a little off topic, just curious what a sand bass is in your part of the country?

Here is the sand bass we catch, http://www.dohenystatebeach.org/pg-ml-bass-barredsand.htm , couldn't find a great picture. Usually use soft plastics on these guys, swimbaits and curly tail grubs usually. They'll definitely hit live and dead bait too. Not a bad fighter, but not spectacular, unlike it's close relative the Spotted Bay bass, which pound for pound I'd put up against the best of them.

I know there are always regional names for fish, and I'm not familiar with east coast sand bass. Can someone enlighten me?

Thanks

Chris Coose
03-16-2005, 10:42 AM
When me and Ella were on our August trip, we were entering the Kennebec River from the Sassanoa and a 4ft. Sturgeon lifted up about 3 ft out of the water next to the starboard bow and jumped the bejesus out of us.
That night we stayed on Sturgeon Island in Merrymeeting Bay.

That's my sturgeon story and I'm stickin to it.

Donn
03-16-2005, 11:23 AM
Krueg...we don't have real Sand Bass here. The closest thing is the Black Sea Bass, which is in the same family.

The regional names can get really confusing. In Texas, the White Bass (Morone chrysops, a freshwater relative of the Striped Bass) is called Sand Bass, or Sandie.

The Black Sea Bass is a great fighter, and, to compound the difficulty, they like to hang out in rocks. Their favorite food is live Green Crabs, which also hang out in rocks. When you hook a Black Sea Bass, or 'Tog, you have about two seconds to get his head pointed up, and if you fail to do that, he's into the rocks, and you'll never get him out. Fine eating fish!

Krueg
03-16-2005, 11:48 AM
Yeah, the names can be confusing. Here, a black sea bass is like an east coast jewfish. They get very large and are a no take species (unless you fish south of the border).

The behavior of your black seabass sounds like the behavior of our sheephead (sometimes referred to as a goat) which is a type of hermaphroditic wrasse. They are great fighters and big ones certainly aren't landed often. Doesn't the east coast have a fish called a sheephead as well?

Some of the southern Cal lakes have hybrid striper/white bass (wipers).

I love fish talk. I haven't fished enough lately and I'm gonna go nuts if I don't go soon.

Donn
03-16-2005, 12:02 PM
We have Sheepshead (Archosargus probatocephalus), which is not the same as your California Sheephead (Pimelometopon pulchrum). We also have Sheepshead Minnows, which is a fairly common small killie in our area. In Lake Erie, they have a Drum/Croaker that's called Sheepshead locally.

I like fish talk, too (you probably didn't notice). Winter Flounder season opens Saturday, but the water's still too cold for them to be out of the mud. I'm starting to collect bait anyway, and should be fishing within a couple of weeks. Catching probably won't start until mid-April.