Availability of Canvas Sailcloth?

[pcford]

Just idle curiousity: Is canvas sailcloth still available? I had Nat Wilson make me some Egyptian cotton sails way back in another lifetime. They were wonderful. However, I think the source in Britain may have gone out of business.

Anybody know? 'Course I could call Nat.

[cs]

The first question folks will ask is why? I believe that their are some good alternatives to canvsas out there. Stuff like Oceanus can be had at a cost and is what they tend to use on historic ships.

Since we are here I will add this quote I found.


When safety comes up there is an interesting twist. Although the synthetic fabrics are less prone to blow out, this is the very reason a natural fabric is safer. As we all know, on a large ship in strong wind, the sail used to be the weak link in the rig. A blown out sail can save a ship from dismasting and is in most cases easier to replace. Today's cloth requires constant vigilance to be taken in before overpowering wind. Chad

[JFH]

A friend of mine had Nat on the phone a couple of summers ago and he told my friend that there is no supply left of Egyptian cotton. He went for the Oceanus Sail Cloth and it looks wonderful. He loves the sail even more.

[Ariel]

I have Oceanus sail on my catboat--love it! Highly recommend it....

[stephen m]

The answer is yes.
I had new canvas sails made last summer.
Egyption cotton may be another story.

[Todd Bradshaw]

High quality canvas isn't hard to find as long as you're needs justify something in the 9-10 oz. range. Sunforger, in particular, is very good stuff. I've been looking for a source for Egyptian cotton in weights suitable for small boats (4-5 oz.) for several years and have had very little luck. Unless you want to buy a whole container-full direct from the places where it grows, you're pretty much out of luck. What's frustrating is that the stuff does exist. The bed-sheet companies use some really fine fabric for high-end sheets and the weight is perfect for canoe and dinghy sails. It's just hard to convince my customers that they want sails with little flowers and bunnies printed on them....

Tentsmiths still builds some traditional Egyptian cotton tents, but even they had problems getting a steady and dependable supply of fabric and they wound-up having to have their fabric custom-woven. I don't know who does it for them, but they don't seem too keen on the idea of retailing raw fabric - though they have made some cotton sails for their customers. They have a neat website:
http://www.tentsmiths.com/

[ 10-18-2003, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[Meerkat]

Surely places like Bed, Bath and Beyond have ultra-high thread count egyptian cotton sheets in solids? ;)

Isn't that stuff going to basically melt (rot fast) in high-UV environments?

[Todd Bradshaw]

No, cotton is actually more U.V. resistant than Dacron. You can get solid-colored bed sheets, but they're $30 each, or better and unless you're building extremely small sails it's a real bear to build them from chunks that size and shape.
"Yes sir, I can build you a cotton sail for your Nutshell pram - would you like Queen-size or King-size?"

[ 10-18-2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[Meerkat]

I gather that fabric stores don't sell high-count cotton sheeting in bolts?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Not that I've found. I've also searched fabric sellers on the net a few times and haven't found anything. Real Egyptian cotton of sailcloth quality is so tightly woven that it has a very solid, firm hand and is actually sort of shiny. Most of the cotton sheeting in the fabric stores is kind of mushy and you can often see light coming through it between the yarns.

[almeyer]

Panther Primitives sells 10.38 oz Sunforger, marine boatshrunk, 35-36" wide fabric at $4.50/yd plus shipping. http://www.pantherprimitives.com

[Frank E. Price]

That's awfully heavy. Anyone have a source for 6 oz/sq yd duck? I'd like to handsew a sail for my 18' sharpy skiff.

Frank

[Todd Bradshaw]

Frank,
If you can't find cotton duck that light you might be able to use Richard Hayward's Light Clipper Canvas, which is 7.2 oz. weight. It's polyester fiber, like Oceanus, but seems to use smaller yarns and looks and feels much more like cotton canvas than it does Dacron sailcloth. It's also is tough as nails. It's 65" wide and you would need to tuck the edges since it's selvedge edges are woven with furry yarns sticking out. If it sounds good, e-mail me your mailing address and I'll send you a little sample chunk. Price-wise, it might be twice the price of cotton, if you can find it in that weight. On the other hand fabric prices are governed largely by the amount of weaving needed to produce the cloth and not as much by the cost of the raw yarns. Good tightly woven cotton in that weight may also be pretty pricy if you find some.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

This is my nineteenth season of being highly delighted with the cotton-Dacron mixture, oil and ochre dressed, that Mirelle's working sails are made from. Few UV problems, due to the cotton. Few rot problems, due to the dressing. Few stretch problems, due to the Dacron. Handles like dressed cotton or flax, not like Dacron (Clipper included).

Downside - it is heavy.

[Todd Bradshaw]

This one may be worth looking into. Look down in the middle of the text. No posted specs though.
http://www.avcloth.com/pages/other.html

Here's another, but I'd want samples before ordering anything where they don't quote the thread count.
http://www.dollarfabric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=00000001&Product_Code=4009-01&Category_Code=4009

That's all I could find in about an hour of googleing. I did find some nice bed sheets though at up to $180 each and a place in Singapore that sold Egyptian cotton shirt fabric which looked pretty good, but it was about $40 per yard, plus shipping.

[ 10-18-2003, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Todd Bradshaw ]

[Meerkat]

I found some place offering 1,020 thread count (amazingly high!) egyptian cotton, but only as sheets. The ivory or white color was right, but people might look at you funny over the lace edges! :D

The price was a bit steep too at $500 for a flat king sheet. Yardage is $140/yard.

If, by some obscure chance, anyone is interested: http://www.givingtreeonline.com/millesimo.html

[Todd Bradshaw]

The thread count is so high because it's a "sateen" weave (means thick, heavy and quite shiny). Might be good if you wanted to go full-circle and make a cotton sail that looked like Dacron sailcloth....

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I've got a roll of British Admiralty flax that I bought in Hong Kong some years ago - it very slowly turns into buckets, ditty bags, etc! The reason for mentioning this is that it is 22" wide.

I seem to recall that cotton sailcloth was also woven in very narrow widths - there would be no point in wide ones, because one would just have to false seam it anyway.

These fabrics seem to be in wide widths.

I've got two shirts made of that stuff, which my tailor in Hong Kong talked me into. Beautifully comfortable, but very definitely kept for "best"!

[Todd Bradshaw]

The lightweight, Egyptian cloth usually comes in wider bolts, so it's typical to add two or three false seams for stability to each panel.

[Frank E. Price]

My skiff is a low-ball boat, so I guess duck'll do.

Frank

[Todd Bradshaw]

Theoretically, I have sample swatches on the way of Egyptian from the aircraft place and from Dollar fabrics. I'll let you know what they look like when and if they actually arrive. The aircraft stuff is only 2.9 oz. which is probably a bit light for mains and jibs on anything bigger than a small canoe, but we'll see. It might be the type of stuff that was once used for the early cotton balloon jibs before lightweight nylons made modern spinnakers possible.