Latex Paint for Boats

[Dave Carnell]

I have for some time promoted the heresy of using 100% acrylic latex exterior house paints for boats. I received this a couple of days ago from a guy in Pensacola, FL.

Just read your great article about using latex paint on boats.

I had a 40' sportfisherman and I painted it with white exterior gloss latex. Just cleaned up the hull real good and sanded any rough spots, then put the latex in a gun, cut it with a little water to thin somewhat, and shot the
boat and cockpit.

That stuff is tough, and holds up very well. The nice thing is you can simply touch up any gator marks that occur.

I ran it about 5 yrs on a basic coat, then finally did an overspray. Figured it would go another 5 yrs or so.

Everybody thought I was nuts. I simply did what you did: pointed out how well it holds up on houses, fences, etc.

Another nice thing is that, in many areas, it will touch up fine with
brushes.

[Ian McColgin]

As is well known on this forum and around Cape Cod, I too believe in latex. Learned the trick back in the '60's from Spaulding Dunbar.

I was spot painting a repair just above the waterline at the bow. SInce it was low, it was more convenient to paint from an inner tube. One passer-by said, "You can't do that. The water will spoil everything."

"'Zat so?" was my reply as I dipped my brush in the water next to me . . .

I'd heard about Spaulding doing that and always wanted the excuse to do it myself.

Fond as I am of latex, it's hard to get as absolutely perfect a finish as, say, Kirby. Those fancy hightek paints - Ironon or some such name - really do last eight to ten years looking good if you don't ding them. Regular paints should be good for three or four years if you don't bang the boat but many folk paint yearly anyway.

The latex looks primo the first year but when I go a second year she looks like she's thinking about a paint job. Third year and the paint does not look it's best at all. While latex will show a bump sooner than topside enamal, a booboo on the topsides can be fixed in minutes. Latex is so cheap, prep and application are so easy and clean up laughably simple that it's actually more cost effective to paint yearly than any alternative.

[ 01-05-2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

[Keith Wilson]

FWIW, I used two coats of latex porch paint on the deck (glass over ply) of my old T-bird in Berkeley. It lasted three years for me, and three since (although the current owner doesn't use the boat much). A cautionary note, though: I first put on the second coat in the aftenoon, and heavy fog came in early. Most of the paint ended up in the bay, and I had to take nasty white drips off the blue stripe on the topsides. :rolleyes: Kirby's is nicer, but more expensive and more work.

[brad9798]

My entire cabin structure is latex ... holds up just fine ... three years and counting. So easy to work with.

[Dave Williams]

How about latex over old oil based enamel. Bad? O.K?

[Dave Hadfield]

I'm doing it too, on cyprus planks. Works great and easy touch up. Does not give a perfect job, but she does not have perfect surface. Looks damn good though. I'm on about a 5-year repaint schedule.

I also use a home depot flat latex porch and floor enamel in the cockpit. That does just fine, too. I'll be using it on the cabin roof next spring.

I use Home Hardware's Best Exterior Latex.

[dmede]

What about a clear latex sealer for brightwork instead of varnish? Any suggestions or experinces with that?

[wyhjr]

Painted my Bolger Nymph dinghy with latex a couple of years ago and it still looks presentable. Even after being dragged in and out of a pickup bed and onto numerous beaches.
I used an acrylic latex primer and semi-gloss topcoat.

[W Hersey]

Two years on the topsides of AMANTE (50'Calkins sloop)in semi-gloss because I like the look. Not fond of the slick shiny plastic look of Imron or Awlgrip.

The latex went over oxidized Awlgrip that had been sanded lightly and wiped with acetone. It holds beautifully.

Also used the same semigloss on the non-skid portion of the cabintop. That has been terrific. Easy to clean and very, VERY tough.

AMANTE is not a workboat. She has acres of varnished teak, chrome and brass. I constantly get compliments on her hull.

[ 01-06-2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: W Hersey ]

[High C]

Another believer here, thanks to Dave's advice. My glassed plywood Weekender looks wonderful with Glidden semigloss exterior acrylic latex.

My 24 year old fiberglass sailboat is ready for her first paint job on the hull sides, the gelcoat is now dull and thin. The local yard wants $5 grand for a first rate Imron job. :eek: No thanks. Anyone ever tried latex on old gelcoat?

[Banjo]

Originally posted by High C:
My 24 year old fiberglass sailboat is ready for her first paint job on the hull sides, the gelcoat is now dull and thin. The local yard wants $5 grand for a first rate Imron job. :eek: No thanks. Anyone ever tried latex on old gelcoat?Ack!! Shhhh keep yer voice down! ;)
Is the gel coat too thin for a light cut and polish? I would try this before slopping paint on it.

Banjo

[High C]

Originally posted by Banjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by High C:
My 24 year old fiberglass sailboat is ready for her first paint job on the hull sides, the gelcoat is now dull and thin. The local yard wants $5 grand for a first rate Imron job. :eek: No thanks. Anyone ever tried latex on old gelcoat?Ack!! Shhhh keep yer voice down! ;)
Is the gel coat too thin for a light cut and polish? I would try this before slopping paint on it.

Banjo</font>[/QUOTE]I know, i know, I'm deeply ashamed to even mention it, redface.gif but my soul is cleansed by ownership of other properly built vessels. ;)

I did wax it recently, but it did no good at all. Maybe I should try a more severe compounding first.
Thanks :cool:

[Dave Carnell]

I refinished an old SUNFISH very nicely and latex sticks to fiberglass-epoxy butt joints in plywood through hurricane wind-blown abrasion that scours it off the plywood.

In my experience, it goe on any surface that is sound.

[High C]

Thanks Dave, I may try the transom first to see how it does. The gelcoat on the transom is particularly thin where several names have been scrubbed off it over the years.

[stevenj]

are these boats in the water for extended periods of time? and are we talking about topsides only or the entire hull?

I know someone that did thier hull in latex, and after a week in the water the paint began to bubble and rub off where the boat rested on the trailer bunks. This was well cured paint, not freshly painted.

Until he reported this, I was sold on latex.

regards,
stevenj

[Dave Carnell]

My boats are in the water year round in NC.

The paint is o.k. on the whole hull, but, of course, it is not anti-fouling. Owner of a houseboat in fresh water reported good service.

[brad9798]

Topsides is my only experience ... other than a small fishing boat. Did not work well below waterline on that boat.

Topsides- it's AWESOME- cheap, long-lasting, easy to apply ... what else can you ask for with paint??

[ahp]

Banjo,

As an owner of various unmentionable FG boats (I own wood ones too!) I have never found a cleaner or solvant that removes the oxidized gel coat. Waxing really doesn't do it either.

If your gel coat is still thick enough, and you don't need much thickness, sand it. Start with wet sanding 300 grit, then maybe 450, and finish with 600. It will look pretty good. If you want to go further with a real gloss, use a power buffing disk and WHITE buffing compound, NOT the yellow automotive. Yellow will stain the gel coat as fast as you buff it out.

Don't wax the hull if you really are serious about speed. Wax is hydrophobic and causes little air bubbles to cling to hull, causing a rough surface.

[High C]

Originally posted by ahp:
If your gel coat is still thick enough, and you don't need much thickness, sand it. Start with wet sanding 300 grit, then maybe 450, and finish with 600. It will look pretty good. If you want to go further with a real gloss, use a power buffing disk and WHITE buffing compound, NOT the yellow automotive. Yellow will stain the gel coat as fast as you buff it out.
AHP, I think you meant this for me, and it sounds like fine advice. And easy to try in a small area to see how it works. I'm off to the store to get some wet-or-dry paper!

[Dave Carnell]

You want to be sure to brush or roll coats of latex paint out well. Resist the temptation to put on a nice thick coat; it may lead to trouble.

[Carl Stone]

Dave, for what it's worth, a further note on thickness ( I agree with you). A painter told me to roll the latex on first, then brush it in with a good brush. My entire boat (45' ketch "Sea Witch") is now 3 years with latex over old oil (waterline up except brightwork), and as good as the day she was done. She is in water year round, all temps, and as everyone adds, soooo easy to spot repair.

[almeyer]

Dave,
Saw your website and am thinking seriously about using latex. The boat I'm building is a 14' glued lapstrake, sealed inside and out with 2 coats of epoxy. I plan to paint the outside and finish the inside bright. It will be a trailer sailer, stored out of the sun, but all the water around here is salt or brackish. However, I hose down the boat with a garden hose after each use so the salt residue doesn't stay on the boat.
Will the latex stick to epoxy, and what surface preparation is needed? And is there something as cheap and easy to use as latex that I can use for a bright finish?
Thanks, Al

[High C]

Originally posted by almeyer:

Will the latex stick to epoxy, and what surface preparation is needed?It sure did for me, Al. I sanded it good with an 80 grit on a flexible longboard to give the epoxy a little "tooth". I've heard tale of some sanding with too fine a grit having problems with adhesion.

[NormMessinger]

The System Three person I talked to once said ALWAYS check oil based paint to be sure it will cure on epoxy but water based paint always will. Words to that effect anyway.

[mariner2k]

I used West marines deck paint over my newly epoxied deck, and in my cockpit used California latex porch and floor enamel with a nonskid additive. Over one season the west faded and flaked in a couple of areas (maybe I didn't rough it up enough, but I doubt it) The california paint kept it's color and adhesion to near perfection. Oh yes....and cost a hell of a lot less.
mariner

[Mark Van]

I've used Latex on my live-aboard houseboat, it has been in the water for two and a half years, and the paint is still holding up. It is getting a bit dingy, perhaps I will re-paint next summer.

[Breezebender]

Used the search feature to find this thread, and now think latex is the way to go for the deck (over epoxy on wooden Sunfish)... but what's best for below the waterline? I've read that oil based paint won't cure over epoxy? But latex doesn't hold up as well as a bottom paint. Other options?

[Thorne]

From what I've read here, oil paint cures fine over epoxy that isn't actively outgassing. So if the epoxy is FULLY CURED (which can take weeks depending on brand, application and curing temps), oil paint is a fine option for dry-sailed small boats.

For a boat that small, why buy two types of paint? I've had good luck with the Rustoleum Marine oil paints on small boats, and am testing their non-marine paints on the interiors of two boats. So far so good...

[Lazy Jack]

I've had good luck with the Rustoleum Marine oil paints on small boats, and am testing their non-marine paints on the interiors of two boats. So far so good...

I've had good luck with Rustoleum non-marine paints on the EXTERIOR of 5 boats. So far so good...

What Thorne said about epoxy... I have waited days and days for rustoleum to NOT dry on a new epoxy surface (West 105/205fast). Rescued the whole job with an additional coat with a healthy blurp of Japan Drier.

No problem with Rustoleum on a fully cured epoxy surface. After sanding the surface, wash with mild detergent and water and let dry. This will clear the free amines that migrate to the surface and act as Rustoleum-Anti-Dry.

Jus my experience...

And no, I do not hold stock in Rustoleum

[Breezebender]

Thank you, Thorne and Lazy Jack! I feel much more comfortable going ahead with the epoxy sealer and I will be sure to let it cure for a good long time before sanding, then washing, then painting. I've read so much about different paints, but I think the Rustoleum is the route I'll take. Since the boats won't be used in salt water and won't be left in the lake I think I'll be OK with Rustoleum on top and bottom- I wasn't sure if I needed a different paint for below the waterline but I'm glad I can save some money with one paint for both!

[mcdenny]

I've always used Interlux Bright Sides - thinned, rolled and tipped - I think it shows very few brush marks, is really shiny and holds up well.

Tried Rustoleum Marine enamel (White) two years ago on my power boat. It looked decent (and was about 1/3 the price) but it wasn't as shiny when new and now two years later most of the gloss is gone. Two year old Bright Sides would be looking brand new.

Used PPG "gloss" oil enamel on my Arctic Tern last year. It was even cheaper than Rustoleum and can be custom colored. It tool 2-3 days to dry hard enough to sand and never had much gloss.

Having learned my lessons, I just finished repainting the power boat with Bright Sides.

[Lazy Jack]

I'd agree, Rustoleum, although brilliantly shiny when first applied, relaxes the gloss a little over time but I've never seen it get chalky or flat. It just settles into being paint - nothing flashy

[floatingkiwi]

None of it means Jack if the prep aint right.

[Monkey Butler]

I noticed that this thread was started by Dave Carnell over 5 years ago. Does anyone know of Dave's status. I did a DAGS and his home page is still up but...

[landlocked sailor]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?130365-Dave-Carnell-RIP&highlight=dave+carnell Sic transit gloria mundi. Along with Chuck, Dynamite, Mac, Phil & Robb. Rick

[robert666]

Another good cheap paint is bitumen roofing paint for bottom paint, its about £25 for a 5 litre tin, it stays slightly soft so barnacles don't grow on it and the only seaweed that grows on it is a thin green slime, which can be killed by drying out for a couple of tides. It also makes less than perfect plywood skiffs watertight (thats how you no when to re-paint!) It migyt even be legal to use it on a grid or careened since its not a poison based antifoul in place where this is banned. Tar in some form or other has been used on working boats for hundreds of years below the waterline inside and out.

Robert

[Breezebender]

I just gotta say, I'm BLOWN AWAY by all the help I've received from everyone on this site. I've studied every response and weighed out the benefits, drawbacks, costs and proper preparation for painting my boats. I think, ultimately, I could use latex but know I'll be sorry when I see that first scrape in the softer paint. I then decided on the Rustoleum, but was concerned about fading/loss of shine after the first year or so. I want a hard, shiny finish that will hold up, so I guess I've got to spend the money. I'm going to the local automotive paint store today for a respirator, mixing wand for electric drill and the 2 part polyurethane paint.
I'm also still considering the Interlux Brightsides... but at least I've narrowed it down to these two! Thank you to all who took the time to provide such thorough and thoughtful responses. I'll post pics of my progress as it goes.

[SchoonerRat]

I've been told to stay away from the 2-part polys on wood.

[mcdenny]

Try a quart of Bright Sides before you take on the cost and safety hassle of the two part stuff. The final appearance will be a lot more dependent on your prep, cleanliness and roll and tip technique than the little bit of extra gloss of the two part products.

[Eddiebou]

It seems most of you who advocate using latex are using it on sealed/epoxied/glassed surfaces, or on cabins and such. I just can't believe it'l work on carvel planked wood, with the accompanying seam compounds and swelling/ saturation, especially at the waterline. What about cutting in the copper line? Over latex? What about times when (after a storm, etc) the boat has 10" of water in it and you don't get it bailed out for hours? I don't think latex will work for these situations.

[jerry bark]

It seems most of you who advocate using latex are using it on sealed/epoxied/glassed surfaces, or on cabins and such. I just can't believe it'l work on carvel planked wood, with the accompanying seam compounds and swelling/ saturation, especially at the waterline. What about cutting in the copper line? Over latex? What about times when (after a storm, etc) the boat has 10" of water in it and you don't get it bailed out for hours? I don't think latex will work for these situations.

I painted my dory with latex house paint last spring. it sat in the lake all summer. the only place the paint failed was where i foolishly use some slickseam to fill a few gaps. elsewhere its like new.

sat with water in it many times.

Jerry

[Monkey Butler]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?130365-Dave-Carnell-RIP&highlight=dave+carnell Sic transit gloria mundi. Along with Chuck, Dynamite, Mac, Phil & Robb. Rick

Thanks for the link. I Don't know how I missed that. Nice to see that Mr. Carnell's wisdom lives on.

[woodspars]

I've not used latex, but I've found that standard household melamine works well below the water line and it has held up for at least one season (sorry......that's the extent of my experience so "grain of salt" and all that). As for antifouling, I've had good success with simple Turtle Wax rubbed on in a heavy coat; allowed to dry, then left alone. The wax dries to a powder.....an excellent ablative coating. No growth after one season (same boat and season as mentioned above), and there is plenty of wax left on the bottom. The boat lives in cold Nova Scotia waters.

-Tyler

[yesiam]

I am using a new marine paint for my whole sailboat -- hull, deck, cockpit etc....it's called InterLatexLux....it is pretty reasonalbly priced and is available at the HD. Made to any color you want. Easy to use and clean up. Actually it is just latex porch and deck paint. Used their primer prior to the top-coats per instructions on the can. Looking forward to see how it holds up. I think it was Dave Carnell who said something like -- latex is used on your house, your deck, your fence and whatever....and is subjected to all kinds of weather 24/7 year after year. Gene

[MikeLongshore]

Hey ya'all, I know this is an old thread but I thought I would thrown my two cents in as a professional house painter of many years. "Latex" paint is actually a misnomer. Very few waterborne paints use latex resin anymore. Cheap waterbornes use vinyl resin, while more expensive ones use 100% acrylic resin. If one must use waterborne paints on a boat, stick with the floor and porch enamels, as they dry more pliable than other paints. A high gloss trim enamel will work as well.
FWIW, one would be MUCH MUCH father ahead to spend literally a couple more dollars per gallon and buy the xylene based floor paint. I have personally seen this paint used in swimming pools with chlorine etc., and it lts several years before needing a new coat. Similarly, chlorine paints that are made for swimming pools are excellent, and can be found for less than proper marine paints, although more than the xylene stuff.
Additionally, to head off a possible disaster in the making, stay WAY clear of the new water based alkyds (oils) hybrids. They ALL suck, no matter who makes them. They never seem to dry hard.

[earling2]

I'm not down on latex, exactly, but as a former house painter (traditional high end colonial stuff) I used to effing hate it because it doesn't sand. It rolls into little balls, unless you use the incredibly expensive green sandpaper sold for latex prep work. Yuck. All that said, I did paint my Auray Punt with it, made out of cheap luan, primed with Zinser Coverstain, Ace hardware silver grey paint and it held up about as well as expected. IE, it was a flattish grey paint job to start out with, stuck to the boat, looked presentable for 4 or 5 years of 100% outdoors, uncovered life before I finally repainted it (no primer, no prep, $15 quart of Ace paint). I would really not feel too comfortable painting a large, expensive yacht topsides with it mostly because it builds up but doesn't fair worth a s--t. I DO like Brightsides, a lot; and my 2 cents is to avoid 2-part Interlux Perfection, as it looks exactly the same as Brightsides at greater cost and much greater hassle factor. As a few other people have said, it stays mirror shiny for many years. So far (on boats I've painted) at least 6 years, probably more like 10 on a coddled boat. In fact, I actually just looked at a boat I owned/painted in '06 and the Brightsides on the topsides looks new, the sheer strake in Interlux enamel is extremely chalky. I also think that Pratt & Lambert and/or Benjamin Moore oil based porch and floor is the equal or superior to just about any other oil paint out there--however, I was old recently it's no longer available due to VOC laws (is such a thing possible?)
I just HVLC sprayed some floorboards/mast with old grey Porch and Floor that I had lying around (cut at least 20% with Naptha/dryer) and they're really good

[MikeLongshore]

however, I was old recently it's no longer available due to VOC laws (is such a thing possible?)
I just HVLC sprayed some floorboards/mast with old grey Porch and Floor that I had lying around (cut at least 20% with Naptha/dryer) and they're really good
It is, in fact true that conventional oils are no longer available in some states due to incredibly stringent regulations. However I will say that here in Florida you can still get it.

[ron ll]

I'm amazed at how long this thread and this subject last. But I feel I should add my personal experience to the mix again. Snoose, my 37' converted salmon troller, was painted entirely with water base paint when I bought it ten years ago and up until recently I had been doing the same. Lately I have started to change much of the cabin and trim paint to oil ONLY because I started wanting more gloss.

But the carvel planked hull with traditionally caulked seams is still water base house paint from Home Depot (Behr). The paint is extremely hard and durable, sands easily, and looks great. I don't yet feel the need to have a higher gloss on the white hull. I think the only time high gloss shows on a white hull is when it is in the yard. When in the water you don't see the gloss.
But those who say it won't work on a carvel planked hull are just wrong. It works great, is cheap, cleans up easily and retouches easily. It cures VERY hard. But if you want high gloss, it just won't do that.

[brad9798]

Glad to see/read this again ... latex works wonders when used correctly and in the correct area ... although some folks may be rolling over! :)

[Jay Greer]

I hear that most all automobiles are now painted with water based paint including, BMWs.
Jay

[KAIROS]

After reading Cleek's rant, I called my local supplier and ordered a couple-of-years supply of the paints I use. I just don't want to figure out what to change over to yet. Still happy with B&M Porch and Floor. When I finish worrying about other serious projects, in a couple of years, I'll be ready to contemplate water-based paints.

[JC 72]

True Jay, Just had the hood of the Alfa resprayed, and it is all water based. If the clear, which of course is not water born comes off, I guess the color coat runs like watercolor.
My brother in law owns the last union body shop in Oakland CA. Here in the SF BAy Area he can't even be caught with the old equipment in his business, or he will be fined. BTW since the economy tanked, it has been worse than the Great Depression for them. His grandfather started the business in 1918, so they have a perspective most micro businesses do not.
Only use oil based products on the dry sailed dinghy. My theroy is, saturate the pores of the wood with oil and resins, much like wood does to protect it's self, no room for water to carry in wood eating microbes. Le Tonk on the bright work, Rustoleum on the planks outboard, and Daly's Seafin / Boat soup, (pine tar), turps etc. on the interior. I like the smell. My two.

[Frog4]

so which brand/type of floor paint do you get from home depot/lowes etc for above and below the water line?

[sailoar]

JC, what's the name of that body shop? I need some car work done. Thanks!

[yesiam]

so which brand/type of floor paint do you get from home depot/lowes etc for above and below the water line?
I am using Behr's from HD - 434 oil-based primer (at least two coats) and Behr's porch paint (at least two coats). The 434 is recommended on the porch paint can for exterior use. When I opened the porch paint can it looked waaaay to thick, but I tried it as it was and was pleasantly surprised -- it went on like hot butter. I am using it everywhere on my boat except for stained and varnished areas -- whether or not it makes any difference my boat is only 12 feet long. You can get any color you want. I am dubbing it InterLatexLux. Gene

[Soundman67]

A friend used CIL "latex" paint on a 55 foot chris. Its not latex. I dont think there is any latex in any of the latex paints now. This paint is probably better described as a water borne cross linked polymer paint. The reason it works as well as it does is that it has a 300% stretch and it breathes. I cant think of anything better to use on Carvel planked boats. You can only get it up to a semigloss shine but on a mid 50's hull that may not be a bad thing. The only place this paint didnt perform perfectly is where we didnt bring the finish right down to the wood. It bubbled there. now 2 years later he touched it up and sanded out those bubbled spots and it looks new again. It gets a little dingy looking in year 2 but still hasnt cracked anywhere on this boat. $40 a gallon is a pretty good price too.
I personally am using Tremclad oil base paint over Zinnser exterior primer stainblocker. I really like this combo but we will have to see how it looks next summer when I touch up again. I just prefer a bit more shine on the hull than I can get with the water borne.