covering a wood boat with fiberglass?

[house carpenter]

i have a 26' palmer johnson stout fella jr in my barn. a friend is suggesting covering it with fiberglass as the most efective way to get it back into service. what is the latest on this method? just the facts please, spare me the lecture and help me make a decision!

[pcford]

It's the best way to kill the boat.

I could go on but you requested no sermon.

[imported_GregW]

If you are convinced it's the best way to go,
I think a good place to start would be to find information on Alan Vaitses. He has fiberglassed over wooden boats with success.

[ 06-20-2005, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: GregW ]

[Gary E]

Your not likely to find anyone here that knows much about it, so best to look elsewhere. You know the story of the guy with a hammer as his only tool, EVERYTHING looks like a nail, even screws look like nails.

Here is a description of a boat, and probably one of the world's BEST EVER built and respected boats.

1958 Rybovich 43'


The 4-Year Restoration is completed on this Classic Sportfish.
New Cummins 370's (5.5 years warranty), New wiring, Plumbing, tankage, A/C's , Steering, Tabs, New pumps, thru-hulls, etc. Boat was stripped, sanded inside and out, replanked, glassed to the water line, and awlgripped. Interior features New counter tops, New headliner, New subflooring, New teak and holly flooring, and all original furnishings were rebuilt, sanded and finished to a high gloss. All interior mahogany stripped ,sanded, and finished to a high gloss. A "Timeless" classic that performs well and is a looker too !!
So, it can and has been done, you just need to find the right group of those that know how.

Good luck

[ssor]

There are two schools of thought on this and a gulf between them. Alan Vaitsis published many books among them are "Covering wooden boats with fiberglass." and "One off in fiberglass". In "one off" he discribes a technique he calls wood left in place boat building. In both books he takes pains to discribe the pitfalls of trying to take short-cuts. Read them both and be diligent in your work.

[RGM]

I'm sorry, but I can't resist this. I suggest covering your friend in fiberglass and doing a proper wood boat restoration to your boat.

[mmd]

If the boat is a non-descript run-of-the-mill boat that is near the end of her useful life, 'glassing the hull will add a few more years of use before she absolutely has to be demolished for safety reasons. If this route is selected, use epoxy, not polyester resins, as the latter will not stick to the wood substrate.

If the boat is a "name" boat that has some monetary value in good to pristine condition, or if it is your dream boat that you want to pass on to your kids, then eschew 'glassing it and do a proper wood-only restoration.

And, yes, an old wooden hull can be 'glassed in such a way that it will look and last like a full-blown restoration, but it will cost as much and take as much effort as the restoration, so where's the gain?

[Jay Greer]

I can sum it up in one word,
DON'T!
JMG

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by Gary E:
Your not likely to find anyone here that knows much about it, so best to look elsewhere. You know the story of the guy with a hammer as his only tool, EVERYTHING looks like a nail, even screws look like nails.

Sure, HC....you can shop your question around until you get the answer you like. Many do.

Me? I ask lots of questions too, and prefer to evaluate the credentials of the poster....that often quickly separates the wheat from the chaff among responses.

The issues in glassing over old wood notwithstanding, if I were gonna do this, I wouldn't settle for anything less than 100% adhesion to the hull. That means every speck of paint, primer, putty, and punky wood have to come off. That also means that I'd thoroughly rout and wedge all the carvel seams with fresh wood epoxied in, as fabric-glue doesn't stick to seam compound.

By the time I did all that, I will likely have invested many more manhours than I would have in bringing an easily-repaired carvel hull back to service....and the end result will be much more difficult (and expensive) to do major repairs to in the future compared to the original hull.

[ 06-21-2005, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Jason, VA]

You may consider looking into the cold molding process. Even some historically significant boats have been rebuilt using this method.

[wyndham]

You're asking a simple question that has no simple answer. What condition is the boat in? How long has it been on the hard?
Generally the answer to your question is going to be don't. Like Bob Smalser says, by the time you spend the effort and money to do it right, if there is a right way to do what you propose, you might as well have repaired the boat properly.
If all you want is something that will float for a season or two then go ahead. If the boat is worth anyhting then it is probably worth repairing properly and extending it's life rather than a quicky fix up that will more than likely hasten its demise.

[Vincent Serio III]

I am fixing up a plank on frame 18' Hampton One Design Sailboat that was built in the 40's and glassed over later. I can only guess that they glassed her in order to dry sail her. The underlying planks had pretty wide seams and I'm sure they got tired of waiting for her to swell everytime they trailered her to another race.

Everything you've heard here about glassing is true--the water got stuck in between the glass and the planks and caused rot. In my pictures, you can see a clear delineation of where the hull was glassed (on the bottom) and where the glass ends. The unglassed wood is clean and pristine, and the glassed over wood is almost unsalvalgeable. The frames on the inside cracked under the stress of the water trapping under the fiberglass and restricting the plank movement. I agree that if you want to sail a boat for a few seasons without putting a whole lot of work, that glass may be a good option--but for the next guy down the road (me, in this case, or you, if you keep the boat), you may be in for some major trouble.

Sharp delineation where glass was. Above the line is good wood, below the dark line, not so good.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/pfe16a4a6d23b231076d1788a21eb0fdd/f656610b.jpg



What glass does to a bottom
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid161/pce7ba91c8eec93081133af4d4d27d78d/f4c77d44.jpg



While peeling the glass, large strips of splintered cedar came off with the glue--what a mess!

[ssor]

In his book "Covering wooden boats with fiberglass" Vaitsis considered it as an option for boats that were otherwise beyond redemption. He was a builder of many years and the details he relates make it plain that this is not a cheap fix but rather a means of preserving a shape that would otherwise be junked.

[rjoynt]

How about this? I am interested in buying a 40ish to 50ish 16 foot Peterbourogh. From what I have found out so far is that it was made up in Canada and the boat that I am looking at was glassed when it was made new. Not sure if this was the case or not. I do have a friend who works on old Corvettes, so my thoughts were that he would be able to do any of the reglassing that might need to be done.
If however, and I have done this with an old Lyman, were I was to strip off the offending glass, would the wood and construction warrant doing this? In other words, would it work? It is a great looking boat, mahogany topsides, windshield two full lenght seats plus two seats at the stearn. Outboard.
Thanks for any and all input.
Bob

[paladin]

From your description I would assume the boat was covered using glass and polyester resin...in itself not a particular good idea as time has shown. When I started my first tri everyone tried to tell me that I shouldn't use epoxy as polyester resin was better....Jim Browns Scrimshaw framing, centerboard and case, rudder...etc was done with epoxy in 1969....Jim did not expect parts of it to last, but several years later when he broke the centerboard he told me he never expected the machine to stay together as long as it has.....

[house carpenter]

thanks to all for the replys. this is a good boat in decent shape. fresh water sailed and it is all there. i in no way want to be the guy who ruins it...... i guess i wil keep in the barn for a few more years.