Koran destroyed by the Muslins

[Gary Lee]

Will the same team of U.S. attorneys, supporting the detainees in Cuba, seek monetary damages from the al-Qaida leadership for the defacing of the holy book? Will Newsweek do a story in its up next edition? :rolleyes:

Suicide Bomber Strikes Afghan Mosque

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601/ap_on_re_as/afghan_mosque_blast

[km gresham]

Nah - it doesn't make the US look bad. They also don't mention that we provide the detainees with the Korans in the first place. We provide their religiously approved meals. We allow them to pray in their fashion 5 times a day. I don't think those things are afforded Christian prisoners. Especially prisoners of terrorists.

[TomF]

That's a very interesting question. Does anyone know how fissures and rifts within the Islamic world react, when a Muslim extremist group attacks a Mosque?

I haven't heard of rioting in the streets somewhere as a result, but that might have lots to say about the news sources I read. I don't see lots in my newspapers about politics from other provinces in Canada ... or domestic politics in France or Sweden. Why should I expect to see "domestic" politics stories from Saudi Arabia or Yemen in my local news?

[Norman Bernstein]

Nah - it doesn't make the US look bad. They also don't mention that we provide the detainees with the Korans in the first place. We provide their religiously approved meals. We allow them to pray in their fashion 5 times a day. Not to mention all the action photography... prisoners' families get to see them being so highly respected by the occupying forces! I'm sure it warms thier hearts to know that they're being so well taken care of... and such nice underwear, too!

[Gary Lee]

I would like to see at least one demonstration by the Muslins in the U.S. and in Canada take place, calling out these actions and then air the pictures of the same on the media outlets abroad, in the interest of true reporting. What would be the percentage of this happening? Would anyone like to place their bets with a Las Vegas outfit today?

[Steve McMahon]

Gary: Are you one of those "right wing extremist chistiams" we see on the news all the time? :eek: ;)

[John of Phoenix]

m! :D
:D :D You're killing me here! :D :D

[Bruce Taylor]

Christiam? What kind of cloth is that?

[Steve McMahon]

"Christiam" has a high percentage of polyester (oil based), unlike "Muslin" which is 100% natural fiber. Either one can be used to wrap yourself up in to protect yourself from the boogyman.

[Bruce Taylor]

smile.gif A close-knit group, I take it? You're on a roll, Steven...hope you don't run out of material.

[Steve McMahon]

I'm gonna have to bolt Bruce, but it's OK, this thread is unravelling anyway.
:D

[Donn]

Aw, come on! A bit more needling, and we'll all be in stitches.

[Don Olney]

But it did have the potential to weave a compelling tale on the fabric of some of our faiths. However, some people didn't cotton to the idea. Darn.

[Memphis Mike]

Originally posted by Steve McMahon:
"Christiam" has a high percentage of polyester (oil based), unlike "Muslin" which is 100% natural fiber. Either one can be used to wrap yourself up in to protect yourself from the boogyman.Hey, that's material evidence! tongue.gif

-Sue

[Donn]

Trying to buttonhole his adversary, he threw darts of bias, but his rhetoric was threadbare, and the crowd returned their attention to the singer.

[Sam F]

sew?

[John of Phoenix]

Very punny.

[Memphis Mike]

Stop needling me, Donn! But we can patch things up. I'm in stitches just thinking about it.

-Sue

arrrrgh. I see I'm reusing your puns, Donn. So sorry! I know you're basting in your glory. :D No need to hem about it.

[ 06-01-2005, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

[TomF]

The thread's unravelling? And here I thought that all sailors enjoyed a yarn. But maybe I'm just getting crochety.

[Garrett Lowell]

This is starting to resemble an old SNL skit.....

[BrianW]

Guess a thread about Muslims holding themselves to the same standard they ask the US to is just not interesting enough. Must be cause Bush can't be blamed for their double-standard.

[TomF]

Check the BBC's website, for a story on Afghani reaction to that suicide bomb attack in Kandahar. Not so big a reaction as I'd like to see, but a reaction, nonetheless.

I suspect that we just don't get the news reported in our media sources ... 'cause it doesn't sell here. I'm sure there are fascinating things happening in Louisiana or Oklahoma politics, for e.g., but I don't see them reported on my nightly news.

Sorry we hijacked your thread ... but the puns were fun.

[Steve McMahon]

That would have been an interesting discussion BrianW. By the title of this thread I don't expect that's the kind of discussion the author had intended. Religious intolerance tends to be getting a bit too common here, I preferred to try to diffuse it before it started with a bit of humor.

[Meerkat]

Karen destroyed by muslin? OMG! The humanity!

[LeeG]

it's time to stop using the phrase suicide bomber. Self-destructing terrorist or human delivered bomb would be better,,could you folks write some letters about this?

[Ross M]

I don't know, Lee. Somehow I still prefer "splodeydope"...

Ross

[High C]

Originally posted by LeeG:
it's time to stop using the phrase suicide bomber. Self-destructing terrorist or human delivered bomb would be better,,could you folks write some letters about this?How 'bout WMDs. I know how you love that one.

[Meerkat]

WMD - Women of Male Destruction? :D

[Gary Lee]

That would have been an interesting discussion BrianW. By the title of this thread I don't expect that's the kind of discussion the author had intended. Religious intolerance tends to be getting a bit too common here, I preferred to try to diffuse it before it started with a bit of humor.

Al-Qaida has blown up the Afghan Mosque, destroying the contents and the followers of the Muslin religion. You now infer that meerly posting the facts consists of religious intolerance by the members of this forum, almost linking the participants of this forum to the perpertrators of this act?

Great pains have been taken to forgo any attacks on any Muslin Mosque at the expense and death of the forces that are in the middle east region.

While the puns were cute at the expense of the issue, this does not change the truth that Muslins are killing other Muslins and destroying time honored and accepted holy contents. Can we all agree that this has been a hot topic in the last few weeks? Please explain your take on the religious intolerance exhibited by this topic.

[Phillip Allen]

Musli n ...cotton cloth
Musli m ...religon (actually it's Islam)

[ 06-01-2005, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Phillip Allen ]

[Memphis Mike]

Originally posted by Phillip Allen:
Musli n ...cotton cloth
Musli m ...religion (actually it's Islam)Thank you, Phillip! ;)

-Sue

[ 06-01-2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

[Gary Lee]

That was a good observation of my original slip of my finger at work, and my own play off of the resulting posts, This does not take away the fact that the overwhelming majority of the people of the country are Muslims, worshiping in the Mosques, their faith of Islam, the religion of the Muslims. These are the facts that cannot be denied by anyone here.

[Steve McMahon]

If you want to talk about double standards, I would suggest you take a look in your own back yard. The overwhelming (albeit declining) majority of Americans are Christians, practicing the Christian Faith. Using a person or groups religion in a headline associated with a crime is inciting prejudice, imagine if that was common practice in reporting within the USA. Some DAILY examples might be: “CHRISTIANS GO ON SCHOOL SHOOTING SPREE-5 DEAD”, or how about “ CHRISTIAN MAN KILLS WIFE AND 3 CHILDREN AND THEN TURNS GUN ON HIMSELF”. Would we accept those headlines as being acceptable? Why not push it a bit further and single out the flavor: “BAPTIST WIFE SHOOTS HUSBAND FOR COMING HOME DRUNK”, or “CATHOLIC MAN ROBS GAS STATION”. If you want to be real accurate and incite some hate you could include the nationality too: “AMERICAN CHRISTIAN GROUP RESPONSIBLE FOR SNIPER SHOOTINGS” Nope, not a flippin chance, no crimes in the good old USA are ever committed by Christians. The terrorists are not Muslim Terrorists, they are terrorists that happen to be Muslims. Are all Germans associated with the Nazi’s?, Why not?, would it have anything to do with the fact that they are mostly Christian and white? I have no tolerance for intolerant people. :(

[Garrett Lowell]

I note a serious lack of rioting, looting, and death in this country whenever a Bible is confiscated and destroyed in the Middle East. Even more curious, I note a serious lack of media coverage concerning this serial confiscation and destruction.
What say you to this, Herr McMahon? (by the way, most Nazis from that infamous era are now dead, and most Germans and Austrians do not wish to be associated with Nazism, which is why we do not associate modern Germans and her citizens with Nazism. Now, apply this same logic to suicide bombers from the Middle Eastern Islamic countries. This is known as deductive reasoning. You should try it sometime.)

[Steve McMahon]

Well General Lowell, I think you have hit the nail on the head; part of the problem is that you (we?) keep trying to apply our logic to other cultures and we get a backlash because we don’t understand. Our “solutions” often create a complete new set of problems. Unfortunately our politicians tend to act like specialist engineers or doctors, looking at a very narrow focused issue without understanding the global effect of their “solutions”. The “deductive reasoning” will lead to a false conclusion if the facts are wrong or biased.
BTW - I am Irish Catholic by birth and heritage. I have a few opinions on tolerance. ;)

[Garrett Lowell]

"General Lowell"

No, I was a Corporal.

[Ross M]

Steve

Most of your examples are crimes not necessarily motivated by religion.

In cases where religion provides the primary motivation for the crime, I think identifying the religion is perfectly acceptable.

Just my opinion, though...

Ross

[John of Phoenix]

This bombing isn't necessarily religiously motivated either. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc. are very much tribal type societies and blood feuds are common. The target of this bombing wasn’t a religious figure; it was the chief of police. It happened to take place in a mosque, but the mosque wasn't the target.

[ 06-02-2005, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: John Teetsel ]

[Ross M]

John

The bomber has (supposedly) been identified as an Al Queda operative.

I could be mistaken, but I thought Al Queda's primary motivations are to drive non-muslims from muslim territory and spread the influence of Islam.

In my mind, this indicates a religiously motivated episode; much like an abortion clinic shooting.

Ross

[Steve McMahon]

Ross: I agree my examples were not motivated by religion. My point was that religiously motivated or not, we tend to report crimes done by non Christians as crimes done by (fill in the blank: Muslims, Jews, etc…)But, With regards to your point: If a Muslim gets beat up on the street in a North American city by a bunch of Rednecks as revenge for 9/11 is that religion motivated? I would suggest it is. Would the headline read “MUSLIM BEAT UP BY CHRISTIAN GANG”? in the local paper? When you had Doctors being murdered for performing abortions were they motivated by religious beliefs? Did the headlines read “DOCTOR MURDERED BY RIGHT WING BAPTIST SPLINTER GROUP” or similar? I’m simply suggesting that we tend to help broad brush the other cultures and this helps foster intolerance in the population. I think this is almost as big of problem in the Canadian Media as it in the US Media. Of course this is all only my opinion and is based entirely on my upbringing, culture, and experience. (BTW – I also think the FOX TV network is horrendously biased, prejudiced, and a disgrace to humankind :mad: )

[Sam F]

Originally posted by John Teetsel:
This bombing isn't necessarily religiously motivated either...Really? Please explain what's in it for the suicide bomber, if not everlasting paradise with the dark-eyed ones pleasurable attentions?
I'm curious about what other non-religious motives he may have had for splattering himself all over that mosque.

[John of Phoenix]

They have a saying in that part of the world, maybe you’ve heard it, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The friend of my enemy is my enemy.”

Let’s say he was al Qaeda. I notice that they specified he was an “Arab” al Qaeda, that’s significant. “He’s a foreigner; WE don’t do things like this.” The police chief is a puppet of Karzai who is a puppet of the Americans and therefore must die. So there’s a big funeral for the old mullah at the mosque and the chief and all his friends are going to be there. If it had been a picnic, a parade, the zoo or the mosque, no matter - it’s convenient that they’re all together, the more who die the better.

Al Qaeda is a political group. It translates to “the foundation” or “the base”. It most certainly exploits religion, but it’s not religious. Does he do it for his virgins? Sure, it’s jihad, he’s entitled, and he goes down in the al Qaeda book as a brave martyr with all the glory that entails. “Next recruit, step forward please.”

Let’s say he wasn’t al Qaeda, and despite what the governor says (he does have to get another chief after all), the guy’s family had it in for the chief, just a typical blood feud. Bomber goes to heaven, gets the virgins, and goes in family book as a brave martyr with all the glory that entails. Now it's their turn. Not much difference.

It’s very difficult for us Westerners to understand, but they have a different value system. Very different.

[ 06-02-2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: John Teetsel ]

[Ross M]

Steve

I think you are correct that our (western) headlines frequently refrain from describing the differentiations that characterize a given perpetrator.

It is a practice that I believe is counterproductive. For instance, my hometown newspaper (Wichita Eagle; Knight Ridder) avoids mentioning the race of a sought-after subjects.

I think that any differentiation available should be utilized. If it damages some organization's reputation, so be it.

Just my opinion, though - and probably not a particulary well thought out one at that.

Ross

[Steve McMahon]

John: It is balanced responses like yours that give me hope that intolerance and bigotry will continue to fade in our societies. Sometimes it hard not to broad brush our opinions about our southern neighbors based on the actions or vocal opinions of a few, but thankfully guys like you step up to the plate and set the record straight. Whew. Perhaps it will all wash out when we become the United States of North America. :D

[Garrett Lowell]

"Sometimes it hard not to broad brush our opinions about our southern neighbors based on the actions or vocal opinions of a few"

So much for tolerance. Walking and talking happen to be two different things, eh?

[John of Phoenix]

I have a confession Steve.

I was born in Manitoba. :D

Canadian mom, American dad. Traveled lots as he was US Air Force, then I joined the Army and kept going. I was in Iran during their revolution. Quite interesting. I actually met an RCAF air crew one day on the tarmac at Teheran airport. I asked if any of them had ever heard of Gimli and the glider. That's where I'm from. They offered me a ride back home right there. Good fellows.

[ 06-02-2005, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: John Teetsel ]

[Sam F]

Originally posted by John Teetsel:
Al Qaeda is a political group.Islam is political and the political in Muslim countries is religious. The two are inseparable


Originally posted by John Teetsel:
It’s very difficult for us Westerners to understand, but they have a different value system. Sure is different.

[ 06-02-2005, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Sam F ]

[Ross M]

John

From page 51 of the 9/11 Commission Report:

"Bin Ladin’s grievance with the United States may have started in reaction to specific U.S. policies but it quickly became far deeper.To the second question, what America could do, al Qaeda’s answer was that America should abandon the Middle East, convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society and culture"

Ross

[ 06-02-2005, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Ross M ]

[huisjen]

As an aside, Muslin is a cotton cloth that was originally from Mosul, Iraq. It was of very good quality, as opposed to the cheap stuff we think of as muslin today. It was a trade item that became well known over the Silk Road 1000 or more years ago.

So muslin means "from Mosul, Iraq", not Afghanistan. It kind of reminds me of the scene in "Porky's" where the redneck calls the jew a "kite", and the jew corrects him by giving the more usual jewish racial slur, and then points out that the redneck is too stupid to even be an effective bigot.

Dan

[John of Phoenix]

I'll agree with Sam and Ross that Islam is probably as much government (and law for that matter) as it is religion. The Koran pretty much defines everything in Muslim society from how to wash your hands to capital punishment. That's why there is such resistance to the changes we're trying to implement. It's not just a religion, it's their way of life.

For how many centuries they've been taught that if you do it "this way", you get to go to paradise. We come along yelling, "Let freedom reign" and proceed to blow up their cities.

Think about it... would you give up the promise of paradise for the "satisfaction" of electing a Clinton or a Bush?

[High C]

Originally posted by huisjen:
...It kind of reminds me of the scene in "Porky's" where the redneck calls the jew a "kite", and the jew corrects him by giving the more usual jewish racial slur, and then points out that the redneck is too stupid to even be an effective bigot.
And the truly wise man restrains his instinct to call others "stupid".

[Steve McMahon]

Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
"Sometimes it hard not to broad brush our opinions about our southern neighbors based on the actions or vocal opinions of a few"

So much for tolerance. Walking and talking happen to be two different things, eh?I said "Sometimes it's hard". Lots of things in life are hard and we do it anyway because its the right thing to do. I have many good friends that are right wing conservative Texans that I've met through work. Many of their opinions have changed dramatically as they get out of their local environment and see the world. As a matter of fact in a couple of weeks a bunch of them are coming to a meeting in the Muskoka region of Ontario. We will do our best to turn them all into "Bleeding Liberals" (as they would put it). :D Slowly but surely we will get you all Canadianized and take over. We've got a pretty good beachhead established in Florida now, Arizona is close behind, California.... The silent invasion. ;) You guys just keep sending your young to the middle east and we'll keep sending our old to the US, We'll see who wins. tongue.gif

[Ross M]

:D :D

[George Jung]

That's diabolical, Steve... :D