Ash and hemlock...

[Bob Aberton]

Just an idle speculation, as I'm not building some big traditional boat (God knows I'd like to, though...), but...

Just the other day, I was down at my cousin's boatyard, working on my 12' sailboat.

He makes his own docks out of local wood; he has a thickness planer, and he buys the wood rough sawn from the local sawmill and planes it down. Apparently, it saves a lot of money in the long run.

Anyways, he was putting the decking on his docks, and I asked him what kind of lumber he was using. He said that he was using hemlock for the decking. He was also using ash fairly extensively, both kinds of wood he had gotten rough cut from the sawmill very cheaply.

So we were talking about the properties of ash and hemlock. He said that hemlock is nice and strong, while ash is very springy and even stronger.

Now, that got me to thinking...is it possible to plank/frame/deck/whatever a boat with those woods? They'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than mahogany, teak, et al.

Just some ramblings of mine...

[ 01-21-2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Bob Aberton ]

[cs]

Bob all I know about ash it when I was trying to bend the stem on my strip canoe. I was having problems getting the bend by steaming doug fir. It was recomended here to try ash. After pre-soaking the ash for about 3 days I was able to make the bend without steaming.

http://a5.cpimg.com/image/0D/84/15050765-b241-028001E0-.jpg

Chad

[imported_Conrad]

Ash is great- strong, steams well, but kind of stringy and stains when wet. Good for interior trim and framing on light boats. Moderately rot resistant.

Hemlock has almost the strength of fir, but is looked down on since it rots very easily. I expect its value among boat builders to improve over time, given its strengh/weight ratio and the ability to preserve it with chemicals and epoxy. I have a fair stock of old growth air dried hemlock- really beautiful stuff, on hand for small boat projects where it will be well protected and not constantly immersed. After all, we all love Okume these days, and it is really garbage in terms of strength and rot resistance!

[ 01-21-2003, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Conrad S. ]

[whb]

I guess it depends what kind of traffic the deck in question gets. Hemlock is a little splintery and if there is a lot of bare foot traffic it might not be the most pleasant.

Yeah, I know, being barefoot is just looking for trouble. But to the extent I can be that's how I live in the summer.

Howard

[Dave Hadfield]

I live just north of Toronto, and in my bush there is a lot of both. White ash. Eastern Hemlock. (It's a different tree out west.)

Fallen logs of ash here last a reasonably long time before they rot. Hemlock doesn't. It rots quickly. It also splits lengthwise along the annular rings in a cup-shaped fasion.

I'd use ash for any application where you want a strong springy hardwood except frames in a boat that's kept in the water. If the boat is stored dry they'd be fine. Stored wet and the frames would rot. If ash is wetted without suitable coatings, it'll turn very black.

I wouldn't use hemlock at all except in the shop wood stove, and even then it soots up the pipes.

[Ken Hutchins]

Originally posted by Bob Aberton:
Just an idle speculation, as I'm not building some big traditional boat (God knows I'd like to, though...), but...

Just the other day, I was down at my cousin's boatyard, working on my 12' sailboat.

He makes his own docks out of local wood; he has a thickness planer, and he buys the wood rough sawn from the local sawmill and planes it down. Apparently, it saves a lot of money in the long run.

Anyways, he was putting the decking on his docks, and I asked him what kind of lumber he was using. He said that he was using hemlock for the decking. He was also using ash fairly extensively, both kinds of wood he had gotten rough cut from the sawmill very cheaply.

So we were talking about the properties of ash and hemlock. He said that hemlock is nice and strong, while ash is very springy and even stronger.

Now, that got me to thinking...is it possible to plank/frame/deck/whatever a boat with those woods? They'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than mahogany, teak, et al.

Just some ramblings of mine...

[Ken Hutchins]

I am just learning this forum thing, hope this works.
ASH, you ask? I have asked several boatbuilders, they all say don't use it, it will rot. BUT no one can offer proof.
I have used ash for dog sleds, one of which is 25 years old, has been sitting on the ground outside year round and not a bit of rot.

Guess what I am using to plank my 36' sailboat I am currently building. I have cut my own trees and milled on a minimill which I have modified to cut 50' lengths. Most of my planking stock is 40' long (no butt blocks). If the ash rots which I doubt it will with proper preservation, it will probably outlast me I'm 59 and holding.

[Ken Hutchins]

I am just learning this forum thing, hope this works.
ASH, you ask? I have asked several boatbuilders, they all say don't use it, it will rot. BUT no one can offer proof.
I have used ash for dog sleds, one of which is 25 years old, has been sitting on the ground outside year round and not a bit of rot.

Guess what I am using to plank my 36' sailboat I am currently building. I have cut my own trees and milled on a minimill which I have modified to cut 50' lengths. Most of my planking stock is 40' long (no butt blocks). If the ash rots which I doubt it will with proper preservation, it will probably outlast me I'm 59 and holding.

Eastern hemlock is great for barn floors, but I would't use it anywhere on a boat, especially a deck. The splinters from this wood are real nasty.

[steve sparhawk]

Checked the West System boys a few years ago re: a laminated stem. They suggested ash for it's strength, ability to glue well and springiness. No hesitation. I glued one up and added a few more layers to the thing when in the hull. Looks like one tough mama. I wrapped her outside with triax glass and will put on a false stem for the unavoidable and expected ramming of docks and PWCs. She'll be coated all over and will outlast me.

[ 01-23-2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: steve sparhawk ]

[Dave Hadfield]

Good for you Ken. I think I'd have a very hard time NOT using 50ft lengths of ash.

Will this be traditional plank-on-frame?

I believe you should report back to all of us 50 years from now and let us know how she's lasted. (!)

[Ken Hutchins]

If you all are interested, take a look at my web site TALLY HO (http://www.berrybrow.com) and click the linke to the boat TALLY HO. The history of the original boat, the R/C model I made to test my design and the progress on the new boat.
Yes it is carvel planked, currently have 8 planks in place, fastening with copper rivets. Had to delay work the past 2 weeks TOO COLD. 1-1/8 ash doesn't want to bend at -10F. Been working in the inside shop on things like belaying pins, patterns for castings etc.