Rudder fiitings for a double-ender

[PAJ]

Hello mates. I'm new here. A beginner, building one of Francois Vivier's Youkou Lilis, a Gunning dory / Faering hybrid. Can anyone help me please with a US source of cast bronze gudgeons and pintles for such a double-ender? Here's a picture of my project: Youkou Lili Album (http://www.francois.vivier.info/albums/slides/youkou-lili%2013.html) , as well as some more Youkou Lilis at M. Vivier's website.

Thanks
Patrick

[StevenBauer]

Very nice boat Patrick! Wow! smile.gif

http://www.francois.vivier.info/albums/youkou-lili%2013.JPG

For the faering my son and I are building we bought the rudder hardware that Iain Oughtred and Moray McPhail designed for Iain's Elf. Pretty spendy when you figure in the conversion and shipping but really beautiful work.

From the Classic Marine (http://www.classicmarine.co.uk) website:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/images/elflis1.gif

Notes on Elf Rudder Gear

This was dreamt up by Iain Oughtred and myself on the basis of as many old pictures of
Norse and Shetland boats as we could find. The trick was to allow the gudgeons to adjust
to the varying angles of the pintles. This has been done - in our solution - by using
a gudgeon more like a doughnut than a tube, so that it can swivel in a vertical
plane as well as the horizontal one. If anyone can think of a better idea, please
let us know.
There are 2 snags:
- firstly the gudgeon makes a point contact on the pintle. This tends to mean that
a galvanised or steel option is unlikley to last very long in a marine environment.
So the gear is best done in bronze or stainless
- secondly there is a trade-off between the tightness of the gudgeons and the
amount of rudder movement available - current mock-ups indicate that a
rudder angle of +/- 35 degrees gives a reasonable compromise.
Anyway the scheme works as in the sketch.
The left hand one shows the normal position, with the upper rudder gudgeon on
the extension of the pintle. The lower rudder gudgeon is split at its front end,
and is mounted onto the pintle via a reduction in width near the top of the
pintle, and then slid down to its normal position. An "R" clip keeps at the
top of the pintle stops the rudder jumping off.
And when you want to come ashore, you reach back and bring the rudder up to the
upper pintle on the hull. This should give you a bit of steerage, whilst avoiding
damage to the rudder when you hit the beach/putty.

With this scheme, the cheeks of the rudder head will need to be extended
downwards by about 3" because the upper strap is mounted lower on the
rudder than shown on the drawing. Alternatively you could shorten the cheeks
a bit, so the strap goes below them.

[Myslow]

Nice job Patrick!!!

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=011020&p=

Here's the way I did it.

[PAJ]

Thanks a lot for the helpful answers! - and what I recognize from my former skulking in the forum's shadows as characteristic brilliance from Bob Smalser (I am currently working from the Smalser floorboard method).

[Otto49]

Nice work! In one photo on the Vivier website he shows the Youkou-Lili with a dipping lug, reefed. Did the plans include the dipping lug layout? I wrote him and asked but never got an answer.

Thanks,
Barry

[PAJ]

Hi Otto,
Yes the plans include a dipping lug rig. Vivier says this is the most powerful rig, but cannot be managed single-handed. Although I hope for company most of the time, I am going for a spritsail and jib.

[Otto49]

Could you please post a copy of the dipping lug layout? I'd like to see how it is done. I read someplace that a small sail could be handled by one person (with some difficulty) but every photo I have ever seen shows several people in the boat.

The rudder hardware may be similar to that of the Caledonia Yawl. Both have the curved stern. Classic Marine has a hardware list for the CY at
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/callist.htm

and have several part numbers listed. It may help.

Barry

[Garth Jones]

Patrick,

Back to the hardware question - I searched around as well, but ended up ordering gudgeons and pintles (along with some other stuff) from Classic Marine. I just got my order earlier this week - the castings are really beautiful. It's pricey, but the boat will look great!

Also, I'm buiding a Ness Yawl, so I know that the parts will be right.

Cheers,
Garth

[PAJ]

Steven, Barry, Garth: thanks a lot for the Classic Marine recommendations. I think their fittings will work nicely.
Barry - i have a couple of scans of the dipping lug arrangement, but don't know how to attach images here - could you tell me how?
Patrick

[Otto49]

If you are not able to post them here, if you could e-mail copies to wb@timelessway.com

Thanks
Barry

++ Below are instruction posted on the forum: ++

Here are Norm's instructions

Instructions for posting pictures

Photo to be posted must be on the web and in a site that allows cross posting. Many Forum users use www.imagestation.com (http://www.imagestation.com) . This is a free site which seems to have unlimited storage, large picture size, and unlimited albums.

Upload your pictures to ImageStation and create your albums or leave the pics in the in box as you wish.
Pictures in ImageStation are displayed in three sizes: thumbnail, display and original. Left click on the thumbnail brings up the display photo, about 640 bits X 400 or so. A left click on the display photo brings up the photo in the original size you uploaded. Forget this one, except in rare cases which I cannot explain it cannot be cross linked. So....

Left click on the thumbnail to show the display version.

Right click on this picture.

Left click "Properties".

Highlight the Address [URL] and copy it (Ctrl/C).

Now go to The Forum and prepare your new message.
Write what you want as a preamble to your picture, then:

Below the message area is a button, "IMAGE". Left click it.

Paste the URL you copied above into the block displayed.
Note that the block contains http already highlighted. Just paste without doing any thing else so you don't get http twice.

Add what ever additional text you wish to add after the URL of the picture is displayed.

Click on the "Preview Post" button to confirm that what you want us to see will appear, then close the window.

Click the "Add Reply" button and standby for responses.

[PAJ]

Thanks Barry
Here's F. Vivier's drawing of the dipping lug sail plan, and a photo of him in the original Youkou Lili, purloined from the French publication "Chasse Maree", showing the traveller along which the tack is drawn.
Are you building one of these? http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2118954946&idx=1
Patrick

[Otto49]

Thanks for posting the picture. I know it does not show up in the text above - but if you refresh the page, a small box appears for a second or two - and if you quickly double-click on the small box, it takes you to the image station photo.

I have plans for a Caledonia Yawl that I hope to start building soon. I came across the YL photos one night and fell in love with the boat and the dipping lug photo.

I see your from Miami. I'm in Taylor County, 40 miles east of Tallahassee.

Thanks again,
Barry

[PAJ]

Barry- drop by next time you're in the Miami area - might even be afloat by then!

[ishmael]

Where's Chip Stulen? He used to build faering-esque boats. Beautiful, Norwegian training showing. Last I heard he was in Vermont. He might have a source closer and cheaper. Someone at WB might have contact info.