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View Full Version : Stop Global Warming: Virtual March on Washington



Kevin L.
06-16-2005, 10:28 AM
If you believe that global warming is a problem that must be addressed, check out the virtual march on Washington to stop global warming:

http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/

Some very respectable and influential people including Sen. John McCain, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, Wesley Clark, Al Gore, Walter Cronkite, etc., Republican and Democrat alike, are supporting this march. Check it out if you haven't yet.

I believe that global warming is a pressing environmental issue, despite the Bush Administration's denial of it, and that we have a responsibility to our children and to future generations to implement effective policies now that result in reduced emissions of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels.

MJC
06-16-2005, 10:44 AM
I don't know why, but I have this feeling that W is going to come back from the G8 meeting believing that, perhaps, something, might oughta, should be done 'bout global warming.

km gresham
06-16-2005, 10:45 AM
If they were really, really concerned they'd do a real march. Virtual march? Somehow I can't imagine Martin Luther King settling for a virtual march.

[ 06-16-2005, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

MJC
06-16-2005, 10:49 AM
Karen: You on a troll today! Raise your flame shields!

LeeG
06-16-2005, 11:13 AM
neo-cons are buying Priuses..oh how funny it all is.

http://www.energybulletin.net/4251.html

Kevin L.
06-16-2005, 12:04 PM
"If they were really, really concerned they'd do a real march. Virtual march? Somehow I can't imagine Martin Luther King settling for a virtual march."

Of course a real march would be more effective as it demonstrates a much higher level of determination and commitment, however a virtual march is simply another means of communication that was not available during Martin Luther King, Jr.'s time. Why not use all available means of communication to increase public awareness of this, or any other issue, and to increase the awareness of our elected officials of popular sentiment?

As for myself, in addition to joining this virtual march, I try to reduce my consumption of energy and natural resources in a variety of simple ways. For instance, I drive a fuel efficient diesel VW Jetta (I average 43 mpg, and get 51-52 mpg on highway trips), I don't use air conditioning at home in the summer (not even during the six years I lived in Texas), during the winter I keep the thermostat set to 55 while sleeping/away and 60 when awake/home (even during the majority of my life when I lived in New York and Massachusetts), I turn off lights in rooms that are not occupied, I recycle everything possible.

None of these things require great sacrifice or difficulty, but if everyone would do a little a lot could be achieved. I am not suggesting that everyone live without AC or minimal heat, but is it really necessary to keep a house 70 or below during the summer and 70 or above in the winter? It is supposed to be warm in the summer and cold in the winter. If you are hot, have a cool drink, or wear less! If you are cold in winter, put a sweater on for crying out loud, or get under a blanket. I don't understand the mentality of lounging about in t-shirts in the midddle of winter.

Ross M
06-16-2005, 01:02 PM
"is it really necessary to keep a house 70 or below during the summer"

Does anyone actually do this?

Ross

km gresham
06-16-2005, 01:07 PM
Nobody I know, but he must know somebody who does.

'Course with all that virtual marching around people get hot and have to turn down that thermostat! :D

[ 06-16-2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

Chris Coose
06-16-2005, 01:51 PM
Here is one for you to chew on km.
How about that our gigantic petro dollars are going to hostile nations and this could/should be seen as the greatest national threat we have?

Real Americans conserve.

[ 06-16-2005, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Chris Coose ]

Kevin L.
06-16-2005, 01:58 PM
I actually have met a few people who maintain indoor temps in their homes in that range, and I have seen a lot of waste when it comes to heating and cooling of buildings. For example, apartments and buildings and schools in the northeast where windows are routinely opened in the winter to "regulate" the indoor temperature, rather than control the heat at the radiator. Public buildings, i.e. schools, shopping malls, theaters, where you need to bring a sweatshirt to be comfortable indoors in the heat of summer. Not all, but many. When I lived in Texas, I had to keep a sweatshirt in my office all summer long.

When I grew up in New York state, air conditioning was uncommon. Some people had window units, but most did not. Now, central air conditioning is found in all of the new construction. It just doesn't seem necessary to me to have air conditioning in the northeast, ...but that's just me. I never suggested anyone go without, but merely suggest moderation (and conservation).

In any event, this is getting away from the intent of the post, although I do appreciate your comments, as it adds to a general discussion. If global warming concerns you, then you might want to check out the virtual march; if it doesn't, then don't smile.gif .

km gresham
06-16-2005, 02:07 PM
"Virtual" anything amuses me. smile.gif

Acutally I watched an episode of "this old house hour" and the problem of regulating indoor temperature by opening windows was addressed. Seems there was a defective part on the radiator that needed replacing - at $100 each and the homeowner had 3 or 4 radiators. That bit of information could help some of those who heat with radiators.

Kevin L.
06-16-2005, 02:27 PM
""Virtual" anything amuses me."

We have some common ground there. Granted, this is a low level of civic activism, but it is something, nonetheless. It is not all that different from signing a petition to support something important to you, where the number of signatures catches the attention of elected officials.

It is always more worthwhile and satisfying to actually do something, which I try to do in myriad small ways as I mentioned above. Certainly it would be better if everyone concerned wrote letters to their elected representatives, and/or organized an actual march, but that does not discount this effort.

Ross M
06-16-2005, 04:59 PM
Thanks, Kevin. Your mention of overcooled public spaces does strike a chord...

Ross

brad9798
06-17-2005, 09:32 AM
Oops, Sorry Ross- I keep all three zones on 70! But conversely, only 68 in the winter.

Virtual march sounds fine ... after all, unlike that 'march' a few years back ... the folks involved in this tend to have jobs. ;)

km gresham
06-17-2005, 09:48 AM
Speaking of public buildings being too cool - anybody been in a movie theater in the Summer? Best to take a jacket and wear socks! :eek: That's one of the three reasons I hate theaters. The other two reasons are the volume is way too loud and discourteous movie patrons.

[ 06-17-2005, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

Art Read
06-17-2005, 12:00 PM
Whatever happened to the upcoming "iceage" they were talking about twenty years ago? Research grant get re-written? :confused:

Kevin L.
06-17-2005, 12:50 PM
MIke, your assumptions about me are completely wrong.

"Yes, another fine arts student going through a bit of brain washing I see.... By some chance is your dorm room or class room air conditioned? Is the cafeteria air conditioned? Is you car air conditioned? Is your local fast food joint air conditioned? Is the basketball arena at school air conditioned?" - MIke

I am in my mid-thirties, and employed at NCSU. So, no I don't live in a dormitory, yes the building I work in is air-conditioned (at a comfortable temperature, no less). My car is air-conditioned, and I do use it from time to time. I find I get better mpg on the highway with AC and windows closed than driving at highway speeds with all of the windows opened. Otherwise I generally don't use it, just my personal choice that I would not force on anyone else. My truck, which is used less frequently as needed, does not have AC, and it doesn't bother me. I don't generally eat fast food, nor do I play basketball or attend games.

"Let see now if the answer to any or all of the questions is yes, and you contribute to the financial support of any or all of them by making purchases, then you are contributing to global warming and helping it to destroy the planet even faster. Before there was AC, people survived just fine. I think the Earth has warmed about two degrees in 100 years on average, or so says some of the experts, both here on the board and those mad sceintists in those thinking labs of knowledge." - MIke

I agree, and try to support businesses/companies whose policies and practices that are more closely aligned with my own values.

I am not sure what your point is when you say that people survived just fine before AC, as I agree with it in general (although there are many who do need the controlled environment that AC can provide due to age or medical condition). I never suggested people go without, I only suggest moderation.

The planet has indeed warmed, and it appears highly likely that the major reason is atmospheric CO2 concentrations, which have steadily increased since the industrial age. As glaciers and ice caps melt and shrink (of which there is unequivocal evidence), they will reflect less sunlight and heat back into space, which may worsen the problem and perhaps even accelerate this process. I am not an environmental scientist, but the data and reports that I have seen do concern me. If this doesn't concern you, that is fine.

"Don't be a hypocrite when you complain about the ambient temperature, and cry about global warming. If you are really concerned about the problem, let your wallet do the talking and begin today by boycotting any and all of these places in real life, instead of calling for a bunch of electron boycotting in cyperspace." - MIke

I don't believe that I am a hypocrite, nor do I accept that characterization from someone who does not know the slightest thing about me. It is clear that you have not understood my postings . Perhaps I was not clear, or perhaps you simply had a knee-jerk reaction to a topic that angers you for some reason. I did not once complain about the "ambient temperature" and attribute that to global warming. I happen to enjoy the heat of summer. What concerns me is exactly that seemingly small increase in average global temperatures.

"I love global warming threads. Its always the other guy that needs to reduce consumption, and its always the other guy that is using in excessive amounts of everything helping to destroy the planet." - MIke

We are all contributing to global warming - the entire human species. Do some countries or some people consume more than others? Of course, but that is not really the point. There is no need to polarize people in this discussion. I think conservation is a good thing, and I think that we all need to work together to leave this planet better than we found it for our children and their children. It is a responsibility that we all share.

km gresham
06-17-2005, 12:57 PM
The previously predicted ice age was cancelled when it became obvious we weren't shivering in July. The predicted global warming may be cancelled soon when we're not diving into swimming pools in January. Well, unless you're in Australia. ;)

High C
06-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by km gresham:
The previously predicted ice age was cancelled when it became obvious we weren't shivering in July. The predicted global warming may be cancelled soon...That cancellation is already underway. I'm seeing less and less reference to "global warming", and more and more to "sudden (or catastrophic) climate change".

Now they can blame "it" on hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, heat waves, mud slides, and floods.

Isn't that special? :D

L.W. Baxter
06-17-2005, 07:12 PM
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that we are heating up the planet and we're all gonna die."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former polluters and the sons of former Prius owners will be able to sit down together without suffering from unpredictable weather.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice, because global warming trends will be reversed.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by their CO2 emmissions.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day, down in California, with its vicious air conditioning units, with its governor driving an unnecessarily large SUV; one day right there in California, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and run on the beach without fear of incrementally rising sea levels.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be glaciated, every hill and mountain shall be made nice and snowy, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and the average mean temperature of the atmosphere will not change from one century to the next!

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the Starbucks with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a snowball of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the overcrowded highways of our nation into a beautiful symphony of little nuclear-powered scooters. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to the DMV together, knowing that we will be naturally cool and comfortable and unmolested by tropical storms, one day.

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let us stop global warming!

Let us stop global warming from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let us stop global warming from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only that; let us stop global warming from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let us stop global warming from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let us stop global warming from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let us stop global warming.

And when this happens, When we stop global warming, when we stop it in every village and every hamlet, in every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "climatically stable at last! climatically stable at last! thank God Almighty, we are climatically stable at last!"

km gresham
06-17-2005, 07:14 PM
:D

Kevin L.
06-18-2005, 08:46 AM
"Define moderation. What is moderate? ... You can't have it both ways, by saying "YOU ONLY POLUTE A LITTLE BIT" ... Again define moderate. You can't and not one enviromental wacko can either, especially when most of the core leaders fly around in jets going to all of those conferences, and drive even one mile in a fossil fueled vehicle to protests ." - MIke

We are ALL dependent on fossil fuels at present, so driving in fossil-fueled vehicles while maintaining a concern about global warming does not in and of itself make one a hypocrite. I see moderation as it relates to this discussion as polluting less is better than polluting more. Perhaps in your "IDEAL" world, issues are black and white, with nary a shade of grey between. That is not moderate, in my opinion. The point of this virtual march is simply to increase awareness about this issue, and hopefully to spur the drafting and implementation of a sound energy policy and policies to foster innovation to minimize the emission of greenhouse gases.

"Again how much is a little bit? If I compare you to someone in the Yukon Terrorities, you are abusing the planet with using AC and even your diesel, which gives off big black smoke in the winter time upon cold starts even with block heaters. I don't expect you see be open enough to see where I am coming from in this discussion." - MIke

Again, you don't know me, so why would you expect me not to be open to see where you are coming from? I do see where you are coming from, and agree with some of what you have to say. I have re-read my posting and replies, and I see now that it does come across as preachy, but that was not my intention. I never said that I don't pollute and contribute to global warming, but I do try to do what little I can, which in my view is better than nothing.

"Call me knee jerk, and thats fine. But when anyone says that people should live to moderation as they do, its not possible. Its just blowing smoke of feel good."

I never called you knee-jerk; I suggested that you may have had a knee-jerk reaction to my post. I don't know you,and would not call you anything. I also suggested that I may not have been clear. I can see how the tone of my post could be mis-interpreted because I am able to see where you are coming from.

"See the idiotic comparision when people preach that people should "Do as I do" and list examples. Not another person requires and lives the lifestyle that you do in your "IDEAL" and conservative and enviromentally friendly lifestyle." - MIke

Yes, I do see the idiocy of it, and that was not my intent. I only threw a few of the things out there that I do, in addition to supporting this virtual march, in response to a reply to my post. If you re-read what I have wrote, I don't think you will see anywhere that I have said that people should "do as I do". Again, I live in the real world (not an "IDEAL" world, as you suggest), where issues are complicated, and because I try to see all sides, I rarely see things in black and white, right or wrong. The real world needs a pragmatic solution to this problem.

Joe (SoCal)
06-18-2005, 09:54 AM
MLK's "I have a Dream" speech was one of the greatest speeches ever spoken, it saddens me to see it used this way. :(

I get the joke I just don't think it was worth using that particular speech to make it.

Crusoe
06-18-2005, 10:07 AM
I have to agree with Joe.

I get the joke, I find it funny.

But,it saddens me that the one bit of American history that makes the hair on the back of my neck rise EVERY time I see or hear it is reduced to this.

Are neocons really that callow?

George Jung
06-18-2005, 11:34 AM
LW a Neocon? ROTFLMHO!

L.W. Baxter
06-18-2005, 05:08 PM
Speaking of callow...

Which group is it that co-opts the hard-won legacy of the Civil Rights movement by making a "March on Washington" for their "cause"?

And at the very "mountain top" of half-assed absurdity, they will make their march on their computers .

Would Martin Luther King Jr. be impressed with the way these folks are standing up (sitting down?) for the rights of thermometers everywhere? Oh, the courage! I'm sure he would be inspired to say something .

Joe, the way this satire works is the juxtaposition of a real cause and a great leader against a half-baked rallying cry without a clue. If you don't respect and admire the original speech, there is no "joke". MLK Jr.'s legacy is safe from me, I assure you. But is it safe from the people who lay claim to his estate?

And Crusoe, the source of your confusion is my radical liberal philosophy, too real and thorough for you to recognize.

Crusoe
06-18-2005, 07:30 PM
Mr Baxter, I think the point of having a "virtual" march on Washington on the point of Global Warming is fairly apt.

You don't have to burn tons of fossil fuels to get people there. But you can still make your presence and opinon felt.

Or did your adult sophistication not pick up on that little nuance?

Kevin L.
06-18-2005, 08:57 PM
I understand that there is a lot of hypocrisy out there on this issue, and I am not blind to it. I see it everyday, and find it as ridiculous as you do, but that doesn't diminish my concern about global warming.

The reason I hope the march may be useful is as a petition for a forward-thinking and comprehensive energy policy. This is important for a variety of reasons, not just global warming.

We are all more or less dependent of fossil fuels at present, and I would like more and better options. I think we need to modernize the way electricity is generated and distributed. I think nuclear power may be the way to go, if they can get around the largely political problem of waste internment. As far as personal transportation goes, gasoline-electric hybrids and cleaner diesel are only two options, and not entirely satisfactory, but from a practical standpoint are all we have right now. I would like to see future development done with the vision to anticipate and accomodate future growth and the incorporation of efficient mass transit. I would also like to see more innovation to develop cleaner alternatives to small two-stroke engines in string trimmers, leaf blowers, etc. Granted there are times when you need their high power:weight ratio for some applications, but by and large, some improvements could be made.

These are the kinds of things I would like to see addressed, and have policies put in place to support innovative R&D.