is this the forum to talk about saw guards?

[seafox]

a while back their was a threadabout guards on table saws and the good people here talked me into not feeling so bad that I finaly got rid of the clear safety guard.
Now lately I have been heating my home with wood my best supply source is cabinite shops mostly 1 by 1 or smaller strips maybe a dozen feet long ususally oak.
I cut it on a chop saw ( powered miter saw) I have warn out the bottom sliding safety guard on the saw and have now half a bare blade sticking out.
before I got rid of the guard I had contacted the blade a couple of times as I pulled more wood acrost the table to be cut
the second time the back of the leather and cloth glove I was wearing shattered just nicked one finger but every time I put the glove on I am reminded of the danger

now the guard is gone and I can see the blade I find my self keeping my hands farther away maybe I am working a bit slower I wonder what youalll have to say about guards on equipment other than table saws
jeffery

[Mike Vogdes]

I don't use the guard on my table saw because it is more trouble than its worth, but on the mitre saws I would definetly maintain. If the saw is that far gone maybe a new one is the way to go.

Why the gloves? Loose clothes, jewelry, hair are all things that want to stay clear of your work.

Maybe a chainsaw would be a better choice for wacking up your firewood.

[seafox]

the gloves are for the sharp corners and splinters of the wood strips. The chain saw doesn't work on the strips becasue they try to run away.

On the miter saw the hand full of strips that I cut at a time are pined between the fence the table and the saw blade other wood that I cut are scraps from construction sites 2x4s 2x6s and 4 x 4s . one friend gave me about a quarter cord of 3x3s I would guess they are squared pealer cores that were used in shipping material to a local recreational equipment manufacture. also a local trailer builder puts out wood a couple of times a week for who ever wants it a lot of it is 2x3s some is 2x4s and some are wood blocks 4x4 and 6 x6
jeffery

[ 01-09-2005, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: seafox ]

[whb]

Seafox

I don't use the guard on the table saw becasue they don't work properly and get in the way. But I've never found the same with a chop saw and if the guard went I would replace either it or the saw. Especially for quick utility cutting like you are doing. Just too easy to get complacent or think of something else and then its goodbye finger.

Just my two bits.

Howard

[Ron Williamson]

Chopsaw guards are GOOD.Replace it.
R

[NormMessinger]

Originally posted by Ron Williamson:
Chopsaw guards are GOOD.Replace it.
R

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I don't use a tablesaw blade guard. I do on a miter saw. I try to always be aware of where my hands are in relation to the machine. It takes focus, but so far so good ;)

[Billy Bones]

It has always been my feeling that guards induce complacency and complacency leads to accidents. I generally avoid guards and learn to understand and respect the whizzing sharp things for what they are.

I can think of several accidents I have seen on jobsites which occurred because the guard quit working. Most commonly this occurs with skil-type saws when someone gets used to picking it up and putting it down while it's still spinning. A chip or sliver gets in the mechanism one time and someone sets it down on a wooden floor or roof and it zooms away backwards, usually cutting its cord and otherwise making a mess. Once this happened to someone next to me and it cut my framing square clean in half.

Similarly, the one and only time I was tempted to try steel toed safety boots I found myself in the woods doing tree work when a small log rolled towards me. I dug in my heel and propped up my toe to catch it, as I might have with any work boot. However because of the steel toe and the hinge point it made in the sole of the shoe under the ball of my foot, the steel cup folded backward and snapped my big toe like kindling.

It might sound too zen for some, but my suggestion is to know yourself and respect your tools, and dispense with the guards. YMMV

[Paul H]

I also removed the safety shield on my table saw, as it was more of a danger then a safety. I feel the same way about guns as I do power tools, they are inherently dangerous, and best treated as such.

I did however break my small toe when not wearing steel toe boots, so do see a benefit to them, though they certainly won't protect you from all accidents, as mentioned.

[Billy Bones]

I thought about this question a lot yesterday after I posted. It occurred to me that a company like Delta spends years designing and refining a tool, putting its best engineers and woodworking experts on the job of making a marketable efficient and costeffective tool, yet their safety devices and guards are designed by lawyers in about 15 minutes.

Perhaps if safety devices evolved to the same degree as the machine itself I'd feel differently about them.

[Paul H]

It comes down to what the market demands. Those buying a $500 table saw, don't want a $250 saw and a $250 safety system, they want most all the value in the saw. Unfortunately people generally don't take safety seriously until after an accident.

[Tom Robb]

Has anyone got any experience w/ the overarm guard/vacuum port that Penn State Industries sells for about $200 or so?

[John Bell]

I heard a story a few months ago on All Things Considered about a man who's developed a device that detects when a table saw starts cutting into flesh and stops the blade within a scant fraction of a second. The story had audio of him demonstrating his invention at a tool show for a group of comercial woodworkers. He'd toss a hot dog into the blade and it would stop RIGHT NOW. The weiner would wind up with a little bit more than minor nick but not something that won't heal, unlike amputation. Cost was about $800, IRRC.

Anyone else heard of this?

(Edited to add: http://www.sawstop.com/video.htm)

Cool!

[ 01-12-2005, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: John Bell ]

[Steve Lansdowne]

I went to that site and checked out the video of this thing in operation. Looks like a very safe possibility.

[landlocked sailor]

The current issue of Fine Woodworking has a nice review of the Saw Stop system; it works by shooting a soft metal cartridge into the blade. After it discharges the blade and cartridge need to be replaced; better than a finger. The system is ONLY available on their own saws and is not available as a retrofit on existing machines. Rick

[Dave Fleming]

Here is a story from my apprentice days.

Things were slow in the yards and the Shipwrights are part of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters...etc..
I went to the Carpenters Hall and got a dispatch to a heavy construction job site in Oakland, CA.,part of the new construction for the Bay Area Rapid Transit System.
I was assigned to a work gang supervised by a young hot shot by the name of Billy Cotton. He was from So. Cal. and had come up to get in on the work.

I was the cutter for a form crew putting in preliminary storm drains along the right of way.
One of the cuts entailed a semi-circular cut out of a sheet of 3/4 inch plywood. I marked the circumferance and proceeded to cut arcs around the line. Billy Cotton thought I was taking too long, possibly I was. He grabbed the Skilsaw from me and made some comment how he would show me the way he cut out arcs. He placed the half sheet of ply across his leg and began to cut out the arc almost in one cut. All of a sudden I heard a "Oh". I turned around from what I had been doing and saw him, white as a sheet, slowly sink to the ground with the damn Skilsaw still running! His finger was caught on the trigger and he couldn't let go.
I ran unplugged the saw and noticed he was lying in a spreading pool of blood.

Ayup children, Billy Cotton had severed his Femoral Artery! I had rudimentary knowledge of first aid and fuggered what he had done. I pushed the ply and saw off of him, gritted my teeth and stuck my fingers in the cut. That artery was gushing so hard I could feel every pulse. I got my 'fairly clean' bandana out of my pocket with my left hand and jammed it in the cut.

Long story short. Ambulance came, attendant made me keep my hand in the cut, loaded me and Billy into the ambulance and rushed to Kaiser Oakland emergency room.

ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY TWO STITCHES, a couple of pints of blood later, Billy Cotton was in a hospital bed for a good week.
Me, I got to go home and scare the hell out of SWIMPAL! I was covered in blood.

Moral, be verrah verrah careful of whirling blades and cutter.

Oh, if we ever meet ask me about my ***altered*** social finger in my left hand.

insert big wink grin here

[ 01-12-2005, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Paulyboy]

Dave, you must be a quick man! It takes less than 90 seconds to bleed out from the femoral artery. Good thing the guy lived to feel stupid about it!

[Dave Fleming]

Paul, I just ripped the plug out of the saw cord I yanked so hard. I didn't know at the time just how critical time was with that artery. All I saw was a white as a sheet fellow lying in a rapidly spreading pool of blood. I just shoved my hand in the rip in his pants and squeezed as hard as I could. The ambulance people looked like I was holding a bomb, they were that cautious about me removing my hand. They did put a tourniquet above my hand but cautioned me not to remove my hand until we got to the emergency room and the MD's could take over. Wasn't easy as Cotton had gone into shock and was shaking like a leaf!

Oh, yes the saw guard was on that Skilsaw but when it jammed in the cut it just wasn't quick enough to cover the still spinning blade.
I had several meetings with insurance types, State safety types, and of course company types. I must have told the whole thing about 10 times over the next several weeks.
Another thing, this was one time the absence of twistlock plugs on the extension cord and saw were a blessing. I would have taken several seconds longer at least in cutting off power if I had had to undo a twistlock!