Oh My God, Bush Wannabe is Winning!

[Steve McMahon]

Well, not all the polls are in yet, but it looks like we are going to have a minority conservative government. Hopefully the other parties will maintain enough power to keep us from becoming another state! :eek: Not that I have anything against you guys, it's just that we are differant eh. ;)

[Steve McMahon]

Oh yeah- you guys should get to know Stephen Harper - the leader of the conservatives and most likely our next prime minister. You will probably be seeing a lot of him in the near future as he goes south brown-nosing up to the shrub. redface.gif

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

The NDP still hold the balance of power it looks like... What a disaster for Harper if he has to make a deal with the Bloc :D

Not much is gonna change Steve... ;)

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

http://www.bushspeaks.com/img/a-shocking-gamble.gif

[cedar savage]

This is a good thing. After PMJ turned me off completely about visiting Canada, which had been for decades my favorite summer tourist destination, I will now reconsider.

It'll be interesting to watch what the Canadians call conservatives can do.

Any movement taking Canada in a more conservative direction would go a long, long way to redressing the rather incredible amount of crap we've had to take from some Canadians.

[Garrett Lowell]

Anybody living in the UP is already in Canada. :D :D

[Ron Williamson]

Cedar
How could Canadian politics possibly affect you?
Aside from WBForum BS, of course.
I can't imagine that it's anything but fluff and noise.
R
Too bad about Harper,BTW. tongue.gif At least it'a minority,and we kept Paul Steckle(L) in Huron Bruce.
R

[John Bell]

Looks like we can call off the scheduled invasion and conquest. ;)

[Donn]

The Webelos can stand down.

<img src= "http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/Images/Cubscout/webelos.gif">

[Popeye]

there's an election ...

who's running?

[cedar savage]

Originally posted by Ron Williamson:
Cedar
How could Canadian politics possibly affect you?
Uh, you're our biggest trading partner. Better cooperation politically, more trade, better for us both.

If Lake Superior was a little smaller, I could see Canada from the top of the hill near the house. I have a vested interest in keeping the Great Lakes clean, Canada and the U.S. have to work together on this.

We share a really long border. What you guys do up there could affect our national security.

I would like Canada to increase it's participation in the Coalition.

I would like to rub Canadian politics in PMJ's face.

[Bruce Taylor]

I'm no Tory, but I like this result. We needed a change, and we got it...but Harper's on probation. To survive, he'll have to compromise.

We have two credible national parties again. The NDP is healthy (but Svend "Lightfingers" Robinson is out). Duceppe got a rap on the knuckles.

My riding (Pontiac) will be represented by Lawrence Cannon, a social moderate. He'll certainly be a minister in the Harper govt. (maybe deputy PM).

Should be an interesting parliament.

[TomF]

Cedar, "some Canadians" will still oppose things they think need to be opposed. Sorry, but whoever sits in Ottawa doesn't really change this Canadian's values. Would it change yours, if someone you didn't like was sitting in Washington?

All in all, this was probably one of the best results we could look for.

The Liberals are out, and have received a clear message that corruption won't be tolerated forever. The Tories have a mandate, but one which is surrounded by caveats - Harper was clear to acknowledge this, and knows he can't try to implement other than centre-right policies.

For the first time in 2 decades, our two largest parties can each claim to be "national" parties, with representation in every region of the country. The ND's aren't far behind, missing out only in Quebec. This in itself restores order/balance in politics, and is a strong check against the kind of corruption we've just come through ... there are clearly 2 parties who can command enough support to lead ... so each had better stay clean.

The NDP (socialist) made strong gains, and will balance the conservatives in the house - Harper will need to temper his plans to ensure support either from them, or from the Bloc Quebecois (also fairly left in social policy), or fall. The NDs have a real opportunity to become a continuing, strong 3rd voice - so long as they outperform the Liberals in opposition.

And the Bloc Quebecois lost some support, both in terms of seats, and in popular vote. This breaks the momentum which was leading towards another referendum on separation, and avoids the symbolic value of having over 50% of Quebec's votes go to a separatist.

And Harper's various nutcases, who have been very effectively muzzled throughout this campaign, largely got elected. Either sometime in the next 3 years, they'll step out of the shadows and scare enough Canadians back to the Liberals, or the Conservative party will deal with them once and for all - re-making itself again into a broad centre-right umbrella party. Either option is good.

t.

[ 01-24-2006, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: TomF ]

[cedar savage]

TomF, thanks, that looks like a very well balanced summary.

I'd love to hear more about your conservative 'nutcases'.

[Bruce Taylor]

I'd love to hear more about your conservative 'nutcases'.Most of 'em stand a shade to the left of your Democrats. ;)

Note that, despite general disgust with the Liberals, our one (nominally) conservative party managed to pull in just 36% of the popular vote.

[Popeye]

he's gonna have to be dippsy-doodle'n with the puck to avoid the neutral zone trap

[ 01-24-2006, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: popeye ]

[TomF]

Originally posted by cedar savage:
...I'd love to hear more about your conservative 'nutcases'.In the past two elections, Conservative hopes have been dashed by failing to make a breakthrough in Ontario. Ontario's business friendly and fiscally conservative, but socially quite liberal. With a huge population (in Canadian terms), it's also got enough seats that winning Ontario is the key to holding office.

The biggest reason that the Conservatives haven't (till now) had that breakthrough, is fear of the socially conservative wing of their party. Canadians want low taxes, a generally more effective military, accountable government spending (with continued balanced budgets) ... but also want abortion to be available and publicly funded, rights for same-sex couples to be recognized, minority groups to be supported (and not subject to discrimination), and a social safety net which operates in a middle-ground between the continental European model and that of the US.

In the previous 2 elections, a number of social conservatives (largely, but not solely from the West) have made fairly strong comments about abortion, immigration, unemployment, same sex marriage etc. which are not consistent with these values. Some were prominent in Harper's party - front bench critics for major portfolios, who would expect to be Cabinet members if the party was in government, while others were back-benchers. After making these comments, such folks were typically demoted, after publicly saying they were voicing their own views (rather than the Party's). But the damage was already done. Such antics weren't limited to small fry - I wouldn't look to see Stockwell Day (a previous party leader) as the new foreign affairs minister! The upshot was to make the Conservatives unelectable.

So while I call such folks "nutcases," in Canadian political terms, they're perhaps more accurately understood as fear generators. They were always part of the old Conservative party, but there (unlike in Canada's more recent Conservative parties) they did not predominate - they were one voice among many. Both the Conservatives and the Liberals were compromise umbrella parties - able to collect enough votes to be a national player.

Harper's challenge in this new government will be to demonstrate that the apparent resurgence of the old Conservative coalition is real - not just a marketing strategy. If he turns out to have truly resurrected a centre-right umbrella, he might get a majority next time. If not ... look for a cleansed Liberal party to take power again in a few years.

t.

[Popeye]

how did the Bloc manage to get the Alliance party elected?

[TomF]

Originally posted by popeye:
how did the Bloc manage to get the Alliance party elected?Welll ... Harper out-played them. A big part of the separatist support is always soft - closet Federalists who support the Separatist parties in order to lever a better deal out of the Federal government for Quebec. They're "nationalists," but not "separatists."

The Bloc's stock-in-trade is the view that only they can really effectively speak for Quebec's interests in Ottawa. But Harper promised action on the "Fiscal Imbalance" - more money to the provinces, which implicitly acknowledges both the growth and the centrality of Provincial power in Canada. This plays well in with Alberta too, so he wasn't risking his bedrock support. And he promised Quebec (and other provinces) greater international roles where appropriate. For Quebec, that means doing with UNESCO what they already do with the Francophonie ... But again, that plays well for some other provinces too (it legitimates Alberta's trade offices throughout the world, for instance), so it didn't erode a lot of support outside Quebec.

This is a great philosophical divide between Liberals/Conservatives - Quebecers knew that the Libs' orientation towards a strong, activist central government would never lead them to cede tax points to the provinces, or water down the federal role in international affairs. Premiers have fought Ottawa on this stuff since Mulroney's Tories fell, with no success at all. So if Quebec wanted those things, they'd get them (within Canada) only from Harper ... and only if other provinces got them too.

In essence, Quebec's "soft" nationalist vote realized that electing more Bloc members this time would, ironically, work against increased Quebec autonomy. ... so it was a strategic vote.

[ 01-24-2006, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: TomF ]

[Popeye]

respect for everyone and taking to heart the will of the people , interesting strategy

[Dan McCosh]

Can someone explain how supporting a balanced budget, strong dollar, expanding the national health care system, etc., makes you a Conservative in Canada? These are far-left positions in the US.

[High C]

Originally posted by popeye:
respect for everyone and taking to heart the will of the people...If only all the people were of the same will....

[TomF]

Dan, I think a more appropriate question is what makes such things "far left" positions in the US ...

[Popeye]

Originally posted by TomF:
Dan, I think a more appropriate question is what makes such things "far left" positions in the US ...neener :D

[Dan McCosh]

A real Bush wannabee would have been electing Conrad Black, with Richard Perle as his chief advisor. Now that would be a US-style conservative government.

[cedar savage]

Does Canada have anything even remotely resembling a national conservative media outlet?

Is the CBC independent of the current government?

BTW: Thanks for the additional insight.

[ 01-24-2006, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: cedar savage ]

[TomF]

Originally posted by cedar savage:
Does Canada have anything even remotely resembling a national conservative media outlet?

Is the CBC independent of the current government?

BTW: Thanks for the additional insight.CTV and Global are two private networks; CTV is perhaps more conservative. The quality and depth of either's reporting, analysis etc. doesn't really compete with the CBC, IMHO.

The CBC is a crown corporation - functionally separate from government, to preserve editorial autonomy. But dependent on government for funding. FWIW, I'm not aware of places where they've shied away from criticizing Canadian governments, of whatever stripe.

The most "conservative" but mainstream media source is the National Post - started up by Conrad Black. Less mainstream conservative perspectives from magazines like Alberta Report.

[chergui]

Originally posted by John Bell:
Looks like we can call off the scheduled invasion and conquest. ;) What, really? Damn, I was hoping we would get more defence work.

[Popeye]

Originally posted by John Bell:
Looks like we can call off the scheduled invasion and conquest. ;) go ahead , you will never survive the traffic in Montreal and when you reach Toronto , nobody will talk to you

[TomF]

hearts and minds ...

[Harry Miller]

Last night I was quite upset that the candidate (NDP) that I worked for lost to the incumbent Liberal placeholder. This morning, however, the big sign on my lawn is gone and maybe my neighbours will speak to me again. (I'm no doubt in for a little chiding.)

Overall I like the result for most of the reasons stated above.

Here's what Bob Rae said about taking power.
- It's like being a dog who chases cars. You run down the street yapping your head off. Then the car stops, the driver gets out, hands you the keys and says, "Here! you drive".

We'll see how Mr. Harper handles it.

[Popeye]

http://www.library.ns.ca/publications/disseminator/index_2002/graph_2002/parlTPB_rev.jpg

The canadidates Paul Martin, Stephen Harper, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe pose for a picture after the election results were announced this morning in Vancouver.

[TomF]

:D :D Popeye.

[Rick Tyler]

Originally posted by TomF:
Dan, I think a more appropriate question is what makes such things "far left" positions in the US ...They don't. He was trolling.

[TomF]

Originally posted by Rick Tyler:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TomF:
Dan, I think a more appropriate question is what makes such things "far left" positions in the US ...They don't. He was trolling.</font>[/QUOTE]Me too. :D

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

What makes these issue's far left in the USA? That's easy, you have the biggest economy, but your right wing politics are almost feudal in nature. ;)