Low Tech Research - Red Lead Primer

[DanO]

Having searched through the exhaustive forum posts regarding the pros and cons of CPES and Red Lead Primer, I am now convinced that red lead is the way to go for my traditional oak/cedar sailboat project (LFH Buzzards Bay 14). After I bought a gallon at Kirby's Paint this morning, I was shocked at the weight! I've never lifted a gallon of anything so heavy, and I'm now fully assured by the gravitational pull that I truly got what I paid for!

Oh and by the way, my conclusions had nothing to do with my actually talking face-to-face with an informative, friendly person who bases his comments on the experience of a company which has sold marine paints for wooden boats for the last 150+ years. Having no interest in the company, I thought I'd just reiterate the notion that there's sometimes a real benefit to going down to a local shop to get valuable and trustworthy info.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone regarding my primary concern over whether red lead primer is the best choice for a boat which will live 4-6 months in fresh water.

Dan

[Banjo]

G'day DanO,

Don't quote me on this, but in Aus Red-Lead paint was outlawed many years ago. At least I havn't seen it on the shelves in my part of this big beautiful, dry, wet, hot, cool, dusty, green, multi cultural, indigenous (sp)land of opportunity..... arghhh.. ahmm.. sorry got carried away a bit there..... :D

Back to the topic, I look at it simplistically, not that I am a simpleton mind you! smile.gif If you use wood that is very rot resistant then you wont have to be as vigilant to scratches or dings that will let water soak into the timbers, or areas that can pool fresh water, ie; in the bilge or around the frames ..

If you go for a less rot resistant species of timber then you will have to make sure that all surfaces are protected and inspect the bottom more often, keep a cover over it when not in use, dry out the bilge after use and cover it etc etc....

That's my simple look at it, what type of paint you use IMHO dosn't make a lot of difference. As long as it's fairly tough and protects the wood what more can you ask of it?

Banjo

[Cosmo Lengro]

Ahem, may I refer both you gentlemen to this thread?

:rolleyes:

Red Lead in Kangaroo Land (http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007529)

[formerlyknownasprince]

Yep - the courier delivered 5 litres of red lead paint about an hour ago, right here in Sydney. $90 Aussie = about $70 US.

It sure is heavy.

Ian

[Art Read]

Or... if you're REALLY anal/compulsive like me... you could use the best possible wood you can get, slather on a couple quick coats of CPES for luck, red lead it good for tradition, paint, or varnish well, as appropriate, and THEN:

"...inspect the bottom... often... keep a cover over it when not in use, dry out the bilge after use and cover it etc etc...." ;)

[stevenj]

Originally posted by igatenby:

It sure is heavy.
I bet it's heavy as lead...... smile.gif

stevenj

[Banjo]

I don't understand the thinking of some people these days!

We are under pressure to eradicate petrol with lead in it.
There is talk of outlawing Treated Pine.
Ditto on MDF (hate that stuff with a passion)
If you want to dispose of old lead acid batteries you have to take them to designated collection points.
Same for old computers and TV's.
The smoke detectors in our homes even have bloody Uranium in them for goodness sake! They are safe until you want to replace one, then it's a trip half way across the country to another collection point.

And now paint with lead in it that had dissapered from stores years ago is now available again? :eek: :confused:

Totaly ........ see I'm stuck for words, and that's a first! smile.gif

Banjo

[Art Read]

It's simple Banjo... Don't eat my boat.

[formerlyknownasprince]

I don't understand the thinking of some people these days!
Yeah - like the Waterways guy who was making sure I was installing holding tanks. He didn't have an answer when I asked him what they were doing to stop the millions of cats and dogs that crap into the same catchment area every day. The only time in the last four years that I've been "caught short" has been because of a woeful lack of public facilities - where are the public wharves in Sydney Harbour, etc?

Red lead paint goes into areas where people don't come into ready contact with it. Specialist product for special areas. The only exposed red lead that will be on my boat will be below the soles - with about two tonnes of exposed lead ingots sitting on it.

The sooner they ban treated pine, on the other hand, the better.

Ian

[Banjo]

Originally posted by Art Read:
It's simple Banjo... Don't eat my boat.Hehe :D I love your way with words Art!

Just remember in days to come some poor bugger might get stuck into it with a power sander and suck all that lead dust in their lungs. ;)

Banjo.

[Banjo]

Originally posted by igatenby:

The sooner they ban treated pine, on the other hand, the better.
IanI with you on that one too brother! smile.gif

But enlighten me please, genuine questions here.
What is the purpose of lead powder in the paint?
If it's for rot resistance wouldn't a paint with copper be a better option? Or if it's for abrasion resistance then what about aluminium or zinc powder?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Well, it is not metallic lead powder; it is lead tetraoxide. I think it is good stuff.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Banjo,
Lead paint doesn't do anything to the wood. It does something to the little buggers that go after the wood. It poisons them. Lead compounds are poisonous to that portion of living things of which we are a part.
Heavy metals,including lead, are cumulative if ingested. A fatal amount might take years to accumulate but it will get you in the end.
It's not generally known, but, if your wife puts a slug into you,you have a better chance of survival than if she grinds that bullet up and puts it into your barbee sauce.
Chuck
on-the-cuyahoga

[Stiletto]

I recently did some major repair work on my trimaran. Inside the wing deck areas where water had got in and couldnt get out there was a lot of white suede like rot .

The timber in there had been painted with redlead. The rot didnt seem too bothered by it at all.

I would prefer metalex which is either copper napthalene or zinc napthalene depending on whether you want green or clear. I think it would penetrate more than paint.

I dont know if that is available in the USA or not.

[Bob Smalser]

copper napthalene 25pct copper napthalene is made by Jasco and on sale at Home Depot.

Copper and lead do the same things...mildewcides.

They don't stop rot, but they retard mildew better than anything out there. And lead is still legal until science comes up with something as good...which hasn't happened yet. The paint mfgrs simply stopped making it because of liability issues, I believe...still very legal here.

If you don't like lead for environmental reasons, simply thin copper bottom paint with whatever solvent works and use that.

[Banjo]

Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck:
Banjo,
It's not generally known, but, if your wife puts a slug into you,you have a better chance of survival than if she grinds that bullet up and puts it into your barbee sauce.
Chuck
on-the-cuyahogaHey Chuck, Shhh keep it down! the missus might listening!! :eek: :D
Of course I forgot about the critters! (smacking myself on the forehead, whump whump whump...)

Banjo.