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cs
11-21-2005, 12:11 PM
Yesterday the kid got dropped out of a stunt and landed on her elbow. She was hurting pretty good, but it was pretty obvous there were no fractures. No serious swelling just some pain. Opted not to take her to the emergancy room but rather take her to her doctor today.

Well her doctor don't want to deal with joint injuries and they said we had to take her to the emergancy room.

Of course this is a kids doctor. We had rather go through the doctor's office rather than the emergancy room (insurance works better that way), so we will look at taking her to our doctor. They can take X-rays in house.

I'm not a doctor, but I hav experianced many injuries to myself and I have a feel for when an emergancy room visit is warrented. If there were any doubt in my mind, she would have went right away last night. We will get her in to see a doctor. The shoulder is not dislocated nor are there any fractures, I'm sure of this. Beleive me, I know breaks, had enough of 'em. She will get to the doctor today.

Chad

Mrleft8
11-21-2005, 12:13 PM
Gonna make bowing a Cello a bit tougher...

cs
11-21-2005, 12:15 PM
But she did sit on the couch last night plucking her violin.

Chad

Alan D. Hyde
11-21-2005, 12:17 PM
If she swims regularly, she'll become less likely to incur injuries in falls or otherwise, which are of course a part of cheerleading.

(Swimming tends to keep the muscles loose.)

Alan

cs
11-21-2005, 12:19 PM
I wish we were able to get out to the lakes or the pools more for her to go swimming, but alas it don't happen as much as it should.

I personally think she has bruised it, but we will take her to rule out any other possiblities that I don't know about.

Chad

cs
11-21-2005, 04:03 PM
Boy do I feel like an idot and a bad parent. Appearntly the arm is broken. :(

Will know more later.

Chad

Alan D. Hyde
11-21-2005, 04:27 PM
A slight "green-stick" fracture can be difficult to diagnose--- so I'm told... :(

Alan

Evan Showell
11-21-2005, 04:39 PM
Chad -- Don't beat yourself up. I'm not an M.D., but have been told more than once that, depending on the type of fracture, it might not show up on x-rays right away, but only after a day or two when the body starts sending calcium to the site of the break. Then, little hairlines show up on an x-ray confirming the fracture. I am told this is quite common in hairline fracture situations.

ishmael
11-21-2005, 04:40 PM
A slight "green-stick" fracture can be difficult to diagnose--- so I'm told.

Not at all. An x-ray will turn it up quite nicely with a good radiologist.

A splint, a bit of care, and such a break will be just a part of the game. Move on. Get tossed high in the air and occasionally things break. Matter of course for a cheerleader.

Matt J.
11-21-2005, 04:43 PM
Chad, I broke my small calf bone in HS wrestling... clean break, bones misaligned. The coach looked at it and asked "what, you need an ambulance!?" I said no, but damn it hurts. "Run it off" he says. So I did. Sprints ("owowowow"), stairs (dayum OW!), and then carrying the G-D dummy up the stairs (f-you, coach, no way)...

I went to the doc 2 days later and got an x-ray. :rolleyes:

Stupid HS ego, but no one thought it was broken. You're not a bad parent, just very practical.

Rick Tyler
11-21-2005, 04:53 PM
Sorry to hear that, Chad. Parenting is a tricky business and I'm sure most of us in the business have made mistakes worse than yours. Let me tell you about the time my father almost dropped me off the Mist Trail to Nevada Falls.

George Roberts
11-21-2005, 05:58 PM
Sort of foolish to let others drop her.

Sort of foolish to not get prompt medical treatment.

She will either survive or not.

cs
11-21-2005, 06:13 PM
It was a break of the humerus right below the shoulder. The way she acted and with no tenderness after the fact, but notheless it is broken and will take 6-8 weeks.

George, I've not a problem with it being foolish for me not to get her to the doctor, but I will not stop her from being tossed by others. Life without risk is not worth living. She is ready to go already. I imagine we will have a tough time holding her back.

Chad

huisjen
11-21-2005, 06:27 PM
I had a bit of a Wile E. Coyote moment myself today. There's this ladder, like a ship's ladder, leading from the hay loft up to the upper storage area in my barn. (I should have had a cleat nailed down some time ago to keep it from slipping, but I don't want to trip over a cleat either so I never did it.) Today I was up there to pet the cat (he likes to sleep up there) and when I stepped on the top step the whole thing slid out from under me. I had a brief moment of hanging in mid-air thinking, "Well, here goes." It was about a six foot drop. I landed one heel on the edge of the (2x8) ladder stringer and that sent a shock through my ankle. The other foot landed solidly. I don't remember how my right hand landed, but it seems bruised in the palm of my thumb. I laid there a minute taking stock. No broken bones, but it took a minute or two to shake out the ankle. Ibuprofin is my friend though, and I was able to finish my day's projects without too much trouble.

It's sort of alarming though to suddenly find yourself in such a position in mid air.

Dan

botebum
11-21-2005, 06:29 PM
Chad,
Most importantly- she's gonna be ok. Take a deep breath and move on. The hardest part for her is 6-8 wks out of cheerleading. The hardest part for you is ya' gotta listen to her complain about missing cheerleading. The best part for both of you? Bet ya' a hundred bucks she still loves ya' to death. :cool:

Doug

Bruce Hooke
11-21-2005, 06:35 PM
Chad,

I'm not a father, but it sounds to me like you made pretty reasonable decisions.

I very much agree on not trying to hold her back (once the arm heals). My parents watched out for my sister and I but also allowed us room to explore things for ourselves and took us to places that a lot of kids never get to go to. I had to get stiches a couple of times and my sister broke various fingers doing gymnastics, but in the process we also both learned how to be intelligent about judging and taking risks. People I've run into who grow up with more protective parents often ended up being downright stupid when it comes to activities that involve risk, and I'm not talking sky-diving here, I'm just talking about things like walking along a rocky shoreline and paying attention to where it may be slippery and what the waves are doing...

Memphis Mike
11-21-2005, 07:20 PM
Chad, tell Fred I said hello and sorry to hear about her arm. :(

She'll be OK. Kids heal up quick.

Beowolf
11-21-2005, 08:11 PM
Chad, you're good. Probably always have been. Probably always will be. Had you not taken her to "make sure everything's all right," then you could kick yourself.

So how bad's the cast. Is she completely immobile or can she still drill with the team (Obviously no stunting.) It usually means a lot to both the kid and the teammates when they can still be a part of the team through it all, even if they can't compete.

Take Care and tell Fred that a bunch of folks she's never met are all pulling for her.

Jeff

cs
11-21-2005, 08:29 PM
Thanks for the support guys.

Funny thing, the break is high on the arm (near the shoulder) and is to high for a cast. Instead they gave her a sling that pins the arm to the chest.

She will still go to practise (her decission) but no stunting and she will still cheer at the middle school games.

More later on the all-star team.

Chad

botebum
11-21-2005, 08:31 PM
Best of luck to her. And you, quit frettin' about every little thing. We're here for ya'. smile.gif

There's people around here with bigger problems then you'n me. Poor Joe's got so many boats he ain't got enough names to go around. Zimmer can't seem to get a rise out of anybody. Phillip Allen is concerned about pocket money in Key West. Uncas can't get his mail. All you and me got is rent due and broke bones. Ahh what a life, huh? ;)

[ 11-21-2005, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: botebum ]

cs
11-22-2005, 07:12 AM
As promised, more on the all-star team.

You may not know this, but she plays a vital role in the all-star team. Her value lies in her flying skills rather than her outstanding tumbleing skills (anybody can tumble). The pyramid they do is highly complex, with girls flipping over in the air to be caught by others, extended up and flipped again and so on. It took many months of practise to perfect.

With that said, they have cancelled the compitition that happens in 2 weeks. There is no way that they can get a replecament in that short of time. The next compitition is 4 weeks away (from the date of break). They will use this time at the gym to try and train a fill in, but they are not holding their breath. There is a reason that Fred is the flyier for this and not any other girl.

What they are hopping is that her doctor will let her perform in 4 weeks and all they will have to do is change the routine where she will not have to do any running tumbling. The may let her do standing tumbling, being as she can do this without her arm. :rolleyes: But what they really need her for is the pyramid.

I'm not comfortable with this and I will make the final decission in 4 weeks. If the doctor feels that she has healed well enough for that, than I'm for it, if not the replacement will have to go.

First things first is she has to let the arm heal. Broken bones heal faster and better than torn ligaments or any joint damage.

BTW in strings class at school, since she can't play the violin, she gets to learn how to conduct.

Chad

cs
11-22-2005, 07:13 AM
Sorry, double post.

Chad

[ 11-22-2005, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: cs ]

Alan D. Hyde
11-22-2005, 10:01 AM
Chad, if it's the right arm, encourage her to learn to do as much as she can (including writing) with her left arm.

It's a useful skill.

And, it will add to her athletic ability.

Alan

cs
11-22-2005, 10:13 AM
Alan the break is on her left arm about an inch below the shoulder joint.

Being so high up on the arm prevents the doctors from putting a cast on her arm, and thus she wears a sling with it wrapped tightly to her chest.

Man, I can see it will be a chore making her keep the sling on. :rolleyes:

Chad

uncas
11-22-2005, 10:15 AM
Chad...look at the bright side..
When I broke my leg is 7 or 8 places...had a cast practically to the waist...Now taking showers for eight weeks plus was a ...well um...
At least she can take the sling off.

of course...now they use fibreglass casts... :D

[ 11-22-2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: uncas ]

TomF
11-22-2005, 10:34 AM
Had a similar break myself as a 12 year old - and had the arm in a sling for 6 weeks. It was much easier regime than when years later I broke the arm again (different place) and had a cast - e.g. the sling lets you get all the way into a shower or bath.

But baseed on my experience, I'd certainly nix the competition in 4 weeks time. Not only will the arm be weaker from muscle-mass loss, but the muscles/tendons will have shortened from being kept in a bent position. It took me about 2 weeks of gradual stretching once the sling came off before I could completely straighten the arm without pain. Couldn't get it halfway straightened for the first few days. So her flying "form" will be messed up.

And even if that's somehow not her experience, she'll have missed 4 weeks of "flying" practice, and will not be fully confident. Combined with a gimpy arm, that will put her at a higher risk for re-injury. Especially if the catching techniques jostle her arm.

Consider this enforced layoff something to teach her (and the coaches/team) some self-discipline, and keep her training using the rest of her body so she doesn't lose other skills or cardiovascular fitness. That combination will give her the motivation to work that much harder once she's given the green light to train using that arm again.

t.

ishmael
11-22-2005, 11:49 AM
The last time I broke a bone I was peavying walnut logs onto a flat bed trailer. Caught the index finger of my left hand in the dog. I swooned. It takes alot to make me swoon, but that crushed knuckle did it. Had to sit down.

No docs, didn't even know it was broke till a later x-ray showed it. Just a few weeks of coddling it. And it healed well. Arthritis is in other joints, but not that one.

Now, obviously broken long bones need some attention. Pretty simple stuff, so long as it hasn't breached the skin. Straigten it out and immobilize it. A greenstick near the shoulder joint will be good in six weeks, and keep her in the sling, as much as possible. Rest.

[ 11-22-2005, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

cs
11-22-2005, 12:24 PM
My initial thought is to nix the compitition. But we will wait and see what the doctor says. If he says okay, the flying will not put a strain on her arm, unless dropped. :rolleyes: I worry about the lack of practise, but we will wait and see what the doc says.

Chad

Alan D. Hyde
11-22-2005, 02:37 PM
Ask the Doc if it's OK for her to carry around a rubber ball, about the size of an apple, in her left hand.

Doc permitting, just have her squeeze it whenever she thinks of it. This can stimulate circulation in the little-used sling arm*, and can retard muscle atrophication.

It will strengthen her left hand, too, so she'll get a bonus...

Alan

* Which may enhance the rate of healing.

[ 11-22-2005, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

htom
11-22-2005, 03:05 PM
Ouch! I think you did the right things, and hope she gets well soon. I doubt that she'll be ready to fly in a month, though.

Art Read
11-22-2005, 04:30 PM
You're not alone Chad... When I was in Jr. High, I fell off the top of an eight foot high skateboard ramp, right onto the skateboard as it rolled back under my foot... A few hours later, my Dad, more than a little impatient with my "malingering" during a basement "project" had me grab one end of a heavy couch he wanted moved. The next morning, after I showed him the green yellow and purple bruise on my forearm, he decided I probably ought to get it looked at. Broken in three places! (Twice in the arm, once in the hand) Not his fault. I could move it, and my fingers... it was just a "greenstick" too. Healed with no problems, didn't even need to be "set" before the cast went on. Still feel a dull ache there once in while though. And still LOVE to tease my Dad about making me move that couch at EVERY opportunity! :D

cs
11-22-2005, 04:48 PM
I had to look up the term "greenstick" fracture. That is one I've never heard of. I'm not sure if this break is a greenstick or not. Her Mom took her to the doctor, so I'm not sure on that term. He did say it was a "major" break.

When she was dropped out of the stunt she fell backwards and land on her elbow, with the force of her fall transmitting up the humerus and breaking about an inch below the shoulder joint.

Chad

ishmael
11-22-2005, 05:38 PM
Hm.

That could be a bad break. Listen to the doc. She's young, bones still making, but don't fool around with it.

No cast? Compressive loading of the humerus will make a spiral fracture, which is different and tougher to heal than a greenstick or a clean break. She must have hit hard!

Around ice all my life, I learned young not to stick my hands in my pockets when on ice for just this reason.

What does the doc say? Best of healing to her.

whb
11-23-2005, 01:02 AM
Chad,

A major break is not a green stick.

A green stick usually only happens with very young kids whose bones are still soft. Its like when you bend a green stick. It breaks but still stays together (sort of). Make sure she has plenty of calcium. The docs all like to say that kids get enough in a normal diet but I know many people who did not experience good healing until they started taking extra calcium.

good luck.

Howard

cs
11-23-2005, 07:17 AM
Last night she was upset that we wouldn't let her ride her bike. She said "I bet you rode your bike when you had a broken arm." Wasn't much I could say to that other than hold my ground and say she couldn't ride.

Than she started talking to her friend about all the breaks I've had. I managed to count 5 times that I've broken my arm or wrist. She always gets a kick out of the time I broke my arm swinging on the kitchen cabinets. And she also thinks its funny when I tell her about the time I tried to bunny hop my bike over a brick wall and bruised a kidney (no broken bones that time).

I'm just glad she is not as destructive on her body as I was on mine.

Chad

TomF
11-23-2005, 11:15 AM
Let's see, only 4 broken bones, and none very serious.

Clean break in my arm up near the shoulder at 12 (football - got landed on in a tackle). Two years later, broke the same arm down near the wrist, in gym class.

And I broke my hand twice - before I learned how to punch properly. Learning to control my $@!& temper helped too! ;)

t.

Another One
11-23-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by huisjen:
It's sort of alarming though to suddenly find yourself in such a position in mid air.

DanDan, do you carry a cell phone with you? You'd be even more alarmed if you had to lay there for hours hoping someone would notice you were gone. Even a cell phone without service works to dial 911 in most areas.

Another One
11-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by cs:
Alan the break is on her left arm about an inch below the shoulder joint.

Being so high up on the arm prevents the doctors from putting a cast on her arm, and thus she wears a sling with it wrapped tightly to her chest.

Man, I can see it will be a chore making her keep the sling on. :rolleyes:

ChadMy daughter did the same thing a couple of years ago. Jumped off the dock into the lake & caught her (dominant) arm in the ladder on the way down. No cast, as you said; they ace bandaged it into a splint & kept an eye on it for 6 weeks or so. It healed fine except for a small bump - - which you can feel, but which can't be seen through the muscle. Seems like we mostly just let the pain limit her activity.

John B
11-23-2005, 07:47 PM
Sorry to hear She's busted it Chad.

4 weeks!! We must have different bones in the south pacific.
Docs instructions:6 weeks with the cast and take it easy , no sports for the following 6 weeks either. :rolleyes:

I learnt this when the boy ( 10) broke his arm earlier this year. Then we learnt more about it when 2 weeks after that he fell over when running and put his good arm down to break the fall. That then meant 2 broken arms, one cast past the elbow and the other only up to the elbow.

cs
11-25-2005, 08:02 AM
I tell you what, it is getting tough keeping that kid down. Yesterday she kept wanting to take the sling off so she could play the violin. :rolleyes:

Chad

ishmael
11-25-2005, 08:12 AM
Chad,

Sawing a bow a bit might actually help the healing. Organics. Blood flowing more. And never discount the power of music.

We broke bones long before there were bone docs. Somehow, we managed. Explain to her what's going on, and trust her to be smart, to not stress it hard.

She sounds smart. Just don't let her take up the racket and start smashing overhead smashes. Not for awhile.

cs
11-25-2005, 08:13 AM
I've already told here that she probably will not be able to play on the volleyball team this year, but she should be healed by the time tennis season rolls around.

Chad

huisjen
11-25-2005, 08:42 AM
Jami, not to hijack Chad's thread any further, but I don't own a cell phone, let alone carry one. I'm sure I'd smash/lose it anyway. I did have a moment's contemplation about how hard it would be to crawl to the house.

I noticed the other day that when I landed, I apparently kicked part way through the floor. One board is broken (true 1x6, single layer) near a knot. The break is curved, about like the heel of my clog. I suppose I should push it back in place and scab on a good patch from below.

The closest I've come to breaking a bone was when I slipped while carrying a concrete block and didn't think to get rid of it on the way down. (This was about 12 years ago.) It smacked the lower knuckles of my left middle finger, it on top and the concrete sidewalk for an anvil. I think it was joint capsule/cartilige/soft tissue damage though. It swelled up pretty badly but I got ice on it quick and it healed.

There've been a few times when I think I should have broken a bone, but I haven't. There was that time I slipped on the loading dock and came down on my shin, hard, on the metal edge. I had a knot in my shin for a couple months, but no fracture. Aparently my bones just don't break. "Big Boned" means something.

Then there's my friend Destry, who says "Yes, I've broken six bones in my life. Three of them were mine!"

Dan

[ 11-25-2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: huisjen ]