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Memphis Mike
11-25-2002, 07:21 PM
http://wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=1025326&nav=3HvDCZKi

:cool: I think ya can chat with em tommorrow
afternoon at one of the links provided here.

Congrats Roger! smile.gif

garland reese
11-25-2002, 08:49 PM
Yeah, He's an Oklahoma Choctaw boy!!! :D :D

Roger Stouff
11-25-2002, 10:15 PM
Just going scope it out for a casino location. smile.gif

Seriously, it's an honor for all of us.

Best regards from the Rez,
R

George Roberts
11-26-2002, 01:01 AM
I am from OK and I have relatives who are Native Americans.

What is the big deal?

Was this a test to see if Native Americans could survive and function in space? There have been blacks, women, and foreign nationals in space. Perhaps we have to send everyperson before some will say that god made us the same.

Wild Dingo
11-26-2002, 01:40 AM
Yeeeeeeeeha! :D Go Roger I knew he still had some tricks up his sleave! man our old rez mate in outta space :eek: ... ****e mates one of our own out there in space!! wow!!!... :cool: :cool:

oooohhh eeeerrrr your still here Roger??? dang! :rolleyes: and here I thought I actually knew someone who had been to that final fronteir! Imagine the story you could tell!! whooooeeeeeee! :D

Take it easy
Shane

Mr. Know It All
11-26-2002, 05:16 AM
I'm sure there have been many Native Americans involved in the space program for years and it's about time one of em got a ride.
:D

DutchRub
11-26-2002, 07:08 AM
Im still waiting for the first openly gay blind person who has a mental handicap in space! Why arent they included. NASA much be a bunch of homophobiccreeps. Probably all they let them do is clean the commodes or something like that. Think Im going to march on down to the launch pad in Fla and start a rally. Whose gonna help me?

bud
11-26-2002, 07:32 AM
Did somebody just fart in here? redface.gif

garland reese
11-26-2002, 08:10 AM
Hi George,

The fact that he is Native American is not a big deal to his Choctaw brothers, but the fact that he is going into space is a very big deal to them. :D

Scott Rosen
11-26-2002, 09:52 AM
It's a big deal. It's of huge symbolic importance and is something that Native American's should be proud of.

Native Americans were here before my ancestors, and probably before yours, too. Today's Native Americans are the survivors of one of the most effective genocides in all of history, and the only genocide committed on American soil, with the support of American law.

This guy's great-grandparents may have been hunted down like animals; and here he is flying into space, under the same flag that was carried by his ancestors' enemies.

Not a big deal? Says who?

Gary Bergman
11-26-2002, 09:57 AM
Ever since the Great Spirit planted peyote there have been Native Americans in space!

Memphis Mike
11-26-2002, 10:48 AM
:D Gary

ken mcclure
11-26-2002, 10:53 AM
Well said, Scott.

Roger Stouff
11-26-2002, 10:54 AM
Thanks, Scott.

Gary Bergman
11-26-2002, 07:22 PM
tongue.gif Me too :D

JimD
11-27-2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
I am from OK and I have relatives who are Native Americans.

What is the big deal?

Was this a test to see if Native Americans could survive and function in space? There have been blacks, women, and foreign nationals in space. Perhaps we have to send everyperson before some will say that god made us the same.Of course you're right, George. It shouldn't matter but still somehow it does. It matters because it helps to end racism. There shouldn't be any of that either, but somehow there still is. Ok, now we need a gay muslim from Texas who drives a Ford Pinto... :D

Don W
11-27-2002, 08:12 PM
I hope everyone understands that the crew member in question is something like 1/15th American Indian, I'm sure he's never lived one day on the reservation. In my humble opinion, it would be more impressive for the federal government (NASA is part of the federal gov't) to use just a portion of the money spent on the space program to giving Native Americans a proper education, giving them reperations for what was stolen from them, drug/alcohol rehab programs, university educations, incorporating them into main stream society, etc. A 1/15th American Indian person in space - not really progress, American Indian doctors, lawyers, land developers, educators - that would be progress. No I am not holed up in a cabin in Montana, just tired and hungry. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Roger Stouff
11-27-2002, 08:41 PM
Don, agreed on all points, though I have to take your word for Mr. Herrington's biographical information (blood percentile, residence).

My blood is between 3/8 and 1/2, not exactly sure, as happens a lot with us. I do happen to believe that while blood is a foundation for being who we are, it's largely a cultural issue. One of my pet peeves is folks who left here decades ago, never once looked back, until the casino opened, now they're streaming in from the big cities where they made more money since they left than my dad made his entire life, with their hands sticking out. My (rather rude) question to them is invariably: "Where have you been for the past decades? Where were you when there was nothing here but shotgun houses and half-junk cars? What makes you think you deserve anything like those who stayed, who stuck it out and fought for what we have here today? The ones who couldn't get a job digging ditches in town so they had to go offshore, or work in the carbon black plants for the big national-sized companies who didn't give a damn who you were so long as you worked your behind off?"

Okay, that's a rant, I know, I'm sorry. But some of these people come in here and act like we're too stupid to run things now that we've got a little money coming in. Our casino is a national model of good management and good security, and our casino managers and tribal representatives go all over teaching other tribes how to do the same.

Point to all this babbling is simply, blood is the beginning. But culture is the important thing. I don't speak the language (it was only revived about three years ago, after the last fluent speaker, my great-grandmother, died in 1940, and I have learned just a few words)nor do I do sweat lodges, smoke peyote or wear feathers (okay, I do wear an eagle feather on appropriate occasion). But I lived here all my life, experienced the evolution of my people, and the oppressions that came along with it.

Incorporation into mainstream society (and I'm not picking on ya, Don! smile.gif ) is good if it means the same jobs, the same education, the same opportunities as everyone else. However, without our culture, then everything is lost. I don't believe in destruction by sponge. Annihilation by assimilation.

Anyway, rant over, congrats to the astronaut, we're all really very proud of him, but there are, as pointed out by Don and Jim and Scott and others (forgetting the fart), far more important issues regarding indigenous peoples. Mr. Herrington's accomplishment may shine a light on some of those issues, or inspire some Indian kid to follow his lead, damn the torpedoes, and that is what's important, I think.

Best regards from the Rez,
R

Don W
11-27-2002, 08:57 PM
Roger, hope I did'nt offend in anyway. Incorporation into mainstream society to me does mean the same jobs, education and opportunity PLUS extra to make up for generations of poverty and segregation. You are dead on on another point - Anytime any kid gets inspired to pursue science or math or literature or other positive intellectual stimulation that's remarkable. And if a Navajo or Cherokee or Delaware kid somewhere reads that science book a little harder because of this..then send more Native Americans into space. Anyone want to send my mother in law into space? I'll get a bake sale or something started to fund it. just kidding. no I'm not.

ishmael
11-27-2002, 09:21 PM
Semantics.

A pet peeve is the mis-use of Native American. Hell, I'm a native American, I was born here.

Cultural identity, in what is clearly a culture and blood that has long held the sh**t end of the stick, is so potentially positive. I've romanticized and studied and come to believe the cultures extant on this continent when Europeans arrived (most recently) have very much to offer. Calling them native cultures doesn't stick in my craw at all. And the need to eupehemize away from a misnomer, Indian, is perfectly understandable. And I don't know what the hell I would want to be called if I had Amer-indian blood, but Native American wouldn't be it. Especially when one looks at the very likely migrations by Asians, Europeans, Africans etc -- long before Columbus or the Norse -- that are beginning to be seriously studied.

It grates even more than the other hyphenated names: Afro-american etc. I don't know why. Perhaps I've grown really tired of the need to be so damn polite!

End-o-rant.

Jack

Roger Stouff
11-27-2002, 09:47 PM
Don, no indeed, I didn't figure you did, but I just wanted to make the distinction for those who might have thought so!

Jack, I gave up a long time ago. Native American, Indian, it makes me no difference, long as it's not derogatory. I'm Chitimacha, but that doesn't elicit the same recognition that Navajo or Apache or Comanche does...so Native American will have to do until somebody comes up with something better.

Best,
R

Scott Rosen
11-28-2002, 07:55 AM
Symbols are important and worthwhile things to spend money on. Would you scrap the Statue of Liberty forever to feed a some people for a day?

Inspiration is food for the spirit, and it's good to spend some time and money on it.

Dave Hadfield
11-28-2002, 11:49 PM
"Blacks, women and foreign nationals...."

Well, nice to know I really belong somewhere.

Finally, a club that will have me!

whb
11-29-2002, 09:58 AM
The symbolism is so incredibly important. Any culture derives benefit from positive role models. And I think that other cultures are more tolerant where they see positive role models.

Some of us from Urban centres here in Canada have very few positive interactions with natives and can get quite biggotted as a result. That starts (slowly) to change with the examples set by the astronaut and by others such as Roger.

Hoping for a more equitable world.

Howard

George Roberts
11-29-2002, 12:18 PM
A now fat middle aged white guy once said something along the lines of ---

One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind.

I feel prod for those who discoved fire, for those who first crossed the Bearing Sea to N. America, for those who discovered gunpowder ...

I felt proud when those first chimps went into space. I felt proud when the first Russian went into space, I felt proud when the first man stepped on the moon. I will feel proud when people live on the moon and when people leave this solar system.

Mankind not gender, race, nationality, or species drives inspires me.

Gary Bergman
11-29-2002, 02:31 PM
Me too. And thank God Muddy Waters discovered electricity!