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ljb5
09-08-2004, 03:04 PM
After telling us for years that all of Bush's military records had been released, they found a few more, which still failed to show that he ever served in Alabama. They promised us that those were all of the documents.

Now, they've found even more documents, (thanks to repeated requests from the press), and not only do they still fail to show that he ever served in Alabama, they show that some of his other statements were outright lies.

From the AP (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040908/D84V54IG0.html)

Bush told us that part of the reason he stopped flying in 1972 was because the F-102A was obsolete. But the new records show that his Texas unit continued to fly the F-102A until 1974.

Of course, the real reason was because he failed to take the physical exam.

Documents pertaining to that lapse should, by law, exist, but have not yet been found.

ljb5
09-08-2004, 06:32 PM
The NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/opinion/lechliter.pdf) has posted an independent analysis by a retired Army Colonel and Marine.

Wow, is it damning!


</font> The pay records released by the White House this past winter prove Bush received unauthorized, i.e., fraudulent, payments for inactive duty training, even if he did show up for duty.</font> The memorandum from Lieutenant Colonel (Retired) Albert C. Lloyd, who affirmed for the White House that Bush met his retention/retirement year point requirement, is an obfuscation, or outright deception, that disregarded Bush’s failure to meet the statutory and regulatory fiscal year satisfactory participation requirement.</font> Bush’s superiors in the Texas Air National Guard failed to take required regulatory actions when Bushed missed required training and failed to take his flight physical.</font> Despite seemingly laudatory comments, Bush’s May 1972 officer performance report was a clear and unmistakable indication that his performance had declined from the annual 1971 report. The report was the kiss of death before he left for Alabama that year. </font> Bush did not meet the requirements for satisfactory participation from 1972 to 1973.</font>It's 34 pages long and meticulously researched.
Well worth the read.

BrianW
09-08-2004, 06:46 PM
Subject matter dull, hard to stay awake, eyes are heavy.... ZZZZ...snore...fart...

;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
09-08-2004, 07:40 PM
The Army Colonel's report seems to be a serious document.

Gresham CA
09-08-2004, 08:30 PM
I don't know about the rest because the link wouldn't work at the house,

"The pay records released by the White House this past winter prove Bush received unauthorized, i.e., fraudulent, payments for inactive duty training, even if he did show up for duty."

but how can it be fraudulent pay if you show up for work? Maybe I'm missing something.

ljb5
09-08-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Gresham CA:
how can it be fraudulent pay if you show up for work? Maybe I'm missing something.Gresh, yes, you are missing something. If you had read the report, you would have seen:


The WH-released records also raise a much more serious issue, however: Fraudulent payment for unauthorized UTAs. The TXANG allowed, certified, and authorized payment for INACDUTRA that the regulation unambiguously precluded. The regulatory time limit for making up authorized missed UTAs was 15 days immediately before, or 30 days immediately after, the scheduled UTA.(172) In November 1972 and January 1972, supposedly while in Alabama, Bush was given credit and paid for 12 UTA periods (6 days) that were outside this time envelope; in July 1973, while in his TXANG unit, Bush was givencredit and paid for 8 UTA periods (four days) that were outside the time limitation. Moreover, there is no evidence whatsoever that the absences were authorized: no requests and no approvals. The transaction codes on the finance records show that finance paid Bush for the following INACDUTRA periods, performed in lieu of scheduled UTAs (2periods per day), that were outside the time limit of 15 days immediately prior to, or within 30 days immediately after, the scheduled UTA:Then there is a table of dates and pay, provided by the White House.

In other words, Bush had a habit of missing duty, apparently without applying for, or recieving authorization. When (and if) he did make up the missed duty, he did it too late, but received payment anyway. It's not even clear that he did make up the duty.

It's only shown that he received payment for it, as if he had done the duty, but according to the White House's own records, they paid him improperly, so it's possible they just paid him anyway, without his even doing the service.

All meticulously footnoted. How's the real world looking now, Mule?

[ 09-08-2004, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

ljb5
09-08-2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Ironmule:
Boringly activist. :rolleyes: Yes, but correct, meticulously researched, rooted in reality and a step ahead of you.

Bruce G
09-08-2004, 09:25 PM
take a minute to watch this~

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/protest-sf.php

Kev Smyth
09-08-2004, 09:34 PM
Yikes!! And they get to vote? :rolleyes: tongue.gif

As for these "hot new discoveries," they won't change a thing because Bush has already stated that he thinks Kerry's service was more honorable and heroic. Another brilliant move by "the dumbest president ever." :rolleyes: :D It kinda takes the steam out of any current or future criticism of Bush's service, and makes those who continue to push the topic look nothing more than mean-spirited.

Kerry will never sign form 180 because it would cause the ops reports he wrote to be released, documenting, under his own signature, all the falsehoods he has involved himself in over the years. But lets move on to their recent records- that will be a lot more interesting and relevant to their ability to govern.

As an aside, I saw the NYT reported today that Kerry has trouble making up his mind in a restaurant if there are too many items on the menu. I wonder how he handles decisions in the national security arena. :rolleyes: He sure seems to have trouble deciding what he's for and against on a consistent basis. :D

[ 09-09-2004, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

ljb5
09-08-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Bruce G:
[QB]take a minute to watch this~

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/protest-sf.php[/QB ]I'll check it out from the office tomorrow.

Why don't you check out Farenheit 9/11?

High C
09-08-2004, 11:23 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce G:
[QB]take a minute to watch this~

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/protest-sf.php[/QB ]

:D What a hoot! I think some of those goofballs must post here! :D The repertoire sounded familiar. :D

Jack Heinlen
09-08-2004, 11:40 PM
If Bush was running on his Vietnam-era military record this might have the impact the left wishes. He's not. A few denials, explanations sotto vocce, and it will disappear, even though it is being over-hyped this week.

Sorry ljb, it doesn't matter much to the swing voters. Perception, what people look at, what people perceive, is what's important in politics, even in the face of a left-wing media blitz. It's like Billy smoking pot at Oxford. So, GW was a child of priviledge, a drunk, a slacker thirty five years ago? He's moved on. John Kerry hasn't, in people's perception.

Gawd that was a stupid move on the Kerry campaign's part.

Bob Smalser
09-08-2004, 11:44 PM
Explosive?

Heaven-sent for Bush....plays right into his strategy.

The Dems really do need to hire Meer or somebody else who can think past their nose.


Y'know, this ain't a bad gunfight at all...

Kerry attacks Bush's ancient AFNG service thru MoveOn.org while drawing attention to his own ancient hero medals...

...all designed to draw attention away for his anti-defense voting record...

...then salutes and "reports for duty" at the DNC.

Meanwhile...Bush creates SwiftboatVets.org and we find out that over half of Kerry's old mates hate his guts with passion and vigor...and that awful Kerry VNVAW atrocity testimony is replayed...and replayed...and replayed...

...then Meat-Eating Marine Miller and a "sensitive" Cheney bring down the hammer on his awful Senate record. Truly awful...and those were just the few days he showed up "for duty".

And Kerry is now firing staff.

The debates will be important, but Kerry has got to get out of his Swift Boat hole or I sense he is in deep trouble.

Kerry needs to hire you, Meer...he obviously doesn't have a strategist anywhere near as bright Keeping the argument about individual sins of 4 decades ago just keeps folks away from Bush's mixed track record.

Folks'll forgive sins if the sinner repents...and Bush freely admits those were his drunk fratboy days. He remains imminently likable, AWOL or not. The hard-living good 'ole boy who found God.

Kerry comes across like he thinks he walks on water. Sophisticated...vain...aloof...European-looking. He never did anything wrong in his life and reminds you of that regularly. In the mean time....folks wonder why over half of his own shipmates spit on the ground he walks on...

....and it's good news for Kerry that 60 Minutes is prolonging the VN arguments?

Sorry fellas...you picked the wrong horse.

Lieberman mighta even got my vote. Some folks need to learn to think past their nose.

htom
09-09-2004, 12:47 AM
Sadly, it's not Fiscal Years that control those things, but Enlistment Years, in Bush's case May-to-May, since he enlisted in May.

Try again.

yorgie
09-09-2004, 01:26 AM
I just love it when those blacksheep protesters refer to themselves as "Workers" NOT!.Thats why you see so many of them at protests,they travel the country like the Deadheads of yore.

We have too many of them in Canada and unfortunatly they occaisionly the get elected to public office.For example

Carolyn Parrish MP "I hate those American Bastards"

Svend Robinson former MP who protested against Israel and was in "solidarity with Arafat and the Palestinian people.

The current Vancouver city council which has instituted "harm reduction" heroin injection sites.They don't supply the drugs,the junkie has to still break into ten vehicles a day to pay for their addiction.

So next time you hear something stupid from canuckistan remember, I have my head down, pushing a planer over a cedar log and have to pay for that idiots salary/welfare check.

Bruce G
09-09-2004, 09:47 PM
Nice to meet you Yorgie. I think you will be one Canadian that I will like, hell come on down to TX and I'll buy you a beer :D