Kerry 3-Bush 0

[Mrleft8]

Not a great debate, but a clincher for the K

[Kev Smyth]

Good mushroom crop this Fall eh? :rolleyes: :D

[brad9798]

For those seaking plastic presence and smooth speaking ... yep, JK won!

I prefer a real speaker ... someone not unrealistically plastic and polished.

[TimH]

The Seattle PI seems to think Bush lost this one too.

[ 10-14-2004, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: TimH ]

[Keith Wilson]

Well, those who support Bush obviously don't do it because he's an eloquent speaker, or even particularly coherent in debates. To give him credit, however, he's getting better, and he rarely mangles the language like he used to. I was amused by how he completely dodged the minimum wage question, and several others about the economy and tax cuts for the rich, by wandering off into "no child left behind". I don't think this debate will make much difference either way. Kerry probably "won", but neither of them did well or badly enough to change many minds.

[ 10-14-2004, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Kev Smyth]

Originally posted by TimH:
The Seattle PI seems to think Bush lost this one too.:rolleyes: The Seattle P.I. thinks Castro is a genius, other than that..... tongue.gif

[imported_Dutch]

Castro is a genius...hes held the worlds super power at bay for the last 40 years, 90 miles from his coast

[LeeG]

I'm maxed out. GWs soft machismo and Kerrys confident drone did me in. I'm voting for a good cup of coffee and slice of cranberry pie.

[George.]

Two oily politicians, trying to convince voters that they can have their cake and eat it too.

Kerry's worse moment: When he missed the opportunity to "get" Bush on the flu vaccine question - Bush basically blamed England and said he was trying to solve it by importing vaccines from Canada. Of course, during the last debates he chastised Kerry for denigrating allies, and said Canadian drugs were unsafe. But Kerry was too stiff and focused on his adviser-approved talking points to actually react to what was being said by his opponent...

Bush's worse moment: when he interrupted the question on Roe vs Wade before it was finished, and before he understood it was a new question worth 90 seconds, and gave a hasty short answer which evaded the question, to which Kerry enjoyed a 90-second reply. Made Bush look impatient and hasty, someone with a short attention span who jumps before he looks.

[George.]

Bush's best moment: his answer to the question on the role of religion in his life. He effortlessly projected sincerity and positive emotion. Bush at his best - even if some of his actual deeds as President make Jesus Christ turn over in his grave.

Kerry's best moment: he didn't have one. No memorable lines, other than rehashed stuff about Tora Bora, lost jobs, etc. The man has little charisma and no political courage - a professional fence-sitter. You can see that all his political experience was in the legislative branch.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Jesus Christ hasn't got one.

[George.]

So they say...

[Scott Rosen]

He had one for a couple of days, but then realized he had more important things to do and places to go.

[High C]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
He had one for a couple of days, but then realized he had more important things to do and places to go.Scott, that's quite a revelation from you! ;)

[Scott Rosen]

;)

The role of my religion in my life does not require me to deny the essential truths of other religions.

However, if someone says their religion tells them to kill me, then I might consider disputing the truths of their religion. If you know what I mean.

[Art Read]

Scott, I do. Don't you wish everyone did?

[George.]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
;)

... if someone says their religion tells them to kill me, then I might consider disputing the truths of their religion. What if someone says their religion tells them that you will burn in everlasting hell because you do not share in their precise beliefs, no matter how good a person you are. Would you dispute that "truth?"

[NormMessinger]

Hell might not be a bad deal if they take their snakes to heaven with them.

[Keith Wilson]

Would you dispute that "truth?" Yes.

[km gresham]

I don't think God has made any of us Privy as to who is going to Heaven or Hell. smile.gif

I think Bush did very well in this one. Kerry looked like Bush did in the first one. Not too great. He came across as wonkish and mean (the Mary Cheney comment) and tired.

Bush missed a few, as he always does, but he was energetic and cheerful and optimistic.

Kerry 1, 1 Draw (advantage Bush), Bush 1.

Domestic issues were supposed to be Kerry's forte. And he failed to shine. Not even a little. Except when he praised his mother.

[Donn]

Originally posted by km gresham:
I don't think God has made any of us Privy as to who is going to Heaven or Hell. The Shadow knows!

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Karen, what about Kerry's charges about Osama? He caught doubleyoo lying outright on that one. Maybe you and doubleyoo are the only ones that don't care about Osama bin Laden.

Bush on 9/13/2001: "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."

Bush on 3/13/2002: "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

Steven

[Wiley Baggins]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:

The role of my religion in my life does not require me to deny the essential truths of other religions.

However, if someone says their religion tells them to kill me, then I might consider disputing the truths of their religion. If you know what I mean.Scott, the first comment has to be one of the best statements on the issue of religion that I have ever read. The second statement is eminently reasonable. It's too bad that so many make religion a zero sum game.

[Wiley Baggins]

Originally posted by George.:
What if someone says their religion tells them that you will burn in everlasting hell because you do not share in their precise beliefs, no matter how good a person you are. Would you dispute that "truth?"Quoting a recently seen (and much enjoyed) bumper sticker, “It’s your Hell, you burn in it.”

[Wiley Baggins]

Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by km gresham:
I don't think God has made any of us Privy as to who is going to Heaven or Hell. The Shadow knows!</font>[/QUOTE]Donn, you'll not find a much bigger fan of The Shadow than I, but I think he's limited to knowing "what evil lurks in the hearts of men."

[uncas]

For the first time in my life, I may not vote for either of the two candidates on the block.Am looking for an alternative!!!!!!.Both are too rich...too slick...and too unbelievable.
( Kerry wouldn't think of giving back the tax credit he received for being rich but he is opposed to the tax credit(s) for the rich...he is supposedly for energy conservation but drives/owns an SUV..( or two or three or four )whoops...sorry, his wife owns them...And if Kerry really wants to be president, why didn't he give up his senate seat? I guess he wants to hedge his bets...
Bush isn't much better...He wants to drill in Alaska, dictate how we should live our lives and drain the US bank account. Heck, if I bounced a check, I would hear about it real quick.and my credit rating would be so low on the horizon, it would not even register.
Since when can a president promise anything to us dumb folk without the support of our illustrious (ancient) members of the senate and congress anyway? Perhaps if the majority of our elected officials in DC all have a simultaneous senior moment, something positive may actually be accomplished. Of course, don't count on this during an election year. I am sure their staffs will let them know when they are supposed to run again so they can avoid voting on anything controversial
On the same topic...since when is being a politician a career! It was not meant to be back in those ancient days of our founding fathers.
And I'm directly descended from 2 presidents.
Oh boy what a delemma..Oh boy what a choice!
I'm seriously looking for a slip in Canada or anywhere else outside of the USA for my old Hinckley Sou'wester 34!!!!!Any suggestions?
uncas

[uncas]

For the first time in my life, I may not vote for either of the two candidates on the block.Am looking for an alternative!!!!!!.Both are too rich...too slick...and too unbelievable.
( Kerry wouldn't think of giving back the tax credit he received for being rich but he is opposed to the tax credit(s) for the rich...he is supposedly for energy conservation but drives/owns an SUV..( or two or three or four )whoops...sorry, his wife owns them...And if Kerry really wants to be president, why didn't he give up his senate seat? I guess he wants to hedge his bets...
Bush isn't much better...He wants to drill in Alaska, dictate how we should live our lives and drain the US bank account. Heck, if I bounced a check, I would hear about it real quick.and my credit rating would be so low on the horizon, it would not even register.
Since when can a president promise anything to us dumb folk :confused: without the support of our illustrious (ancient) members of the senate and congress anyway? Perhaps if the majority of our elected officials in DC all have a simultaneous senior moment, something positive may actually be accomplished. Of course, don't count on this during an election year. I am sure their staffs will let them know when they are supposed to run again so they can avoid voting on anything controversial
On the same topic...since when is being a politician a career! It was not meant to be back in those ancient days of our founding fathers.
And I'm directly descended from 2 presidents.
Oh boy what a delemma..Oh boy what a choice!
I'm seriously looking for a slip in Canada or anywhere else outside of the USA for my old Hinckley Sou'wester 34!!!!!Any suggestions?
uncas

[uncas]

Speaking on the outsourcing issue....Even my IRS returns have been reviewed by someone in India...So, even our government outsources along with everyone else.
I think the guy was named Henry!!!!
uncas

[LeeG]

Karen, this is mean? At this stage of the game GW doesn't know,,and millions of Americans do know,,maybe it's time for a prez. who knows a thing or two.

SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other questions here.

Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that.

And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live.

And that's to be honored.

But as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman.

I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution.

It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution.

I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act.

My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman.

But I'm concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't think that's in our nation's interests.

SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it.

And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.

I think we have to respect that.

The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people.

You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth.

Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately.

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by George.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
;)

... if someone says their religion tells them to kill me, then I might consider disputing the truths of their religion. What if someone says their religion tells them that you will burn in everlasting hell because you do not share in their precise beliefs, no matter how good a person you are. Would you dispute that "truth?"</font>[/QUOTE]I pretty much agree with Wiley's quote: "It's your hell; you burn in it."

Or, "you've got enough work to do to save your own soul; let me worry about mine."

I don't believe the same as those folks, but I'm not going to dispute their beliefs. None of us can prove or disprove those kinds of truths.

They're talking about what fate God has for us in the afterlife. Why even bother arguing about that, when we share the belief that we need to respect each other in this life.

I've never confronted a fundementalist Muslim face to face, but from what I've read, I think they are not content to let God decide my fate in the afterlife; they would rather decide my fate for me, in this life, with a bomb or a bullet. That's where I would draw the line.

[ 10-14-2004, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]