carter carb for 61 Chris Craft

[r day]

Hello folks, new here, and first post, so please be gentle.
I just put up the boat for the winter, and as the engine was not running as well
as I would have liked, I decided to pull the carb, and overhaul it.
The problem now is finding a kit to do that, the carb is a carter four barrel,
and I would like to find a site that would address the various models,
and steer me to a solution. Any help or advise would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Rob day,
Ottawa, Canada

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Give Bruce and Chris Hamann a call.
Good advice and parts.

Contact info on their web site here----> http://www.lakelandautomarine.com/

Good luck and welcome to the forum. smile.gif
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

[Siebert]

Rob:
Check the carburator for a small triangular or rectangular alluminum tag that serves as a washer on one of the float bowl cover screws. This tag will have a model number for the carburator. With this number, you can go to any good autoparts store and pick up a rebuild kit.

If you don't have the little metal tag, you are pretty much out of luck on a rebuild kit, unless you can find someone who is extrodinarily familiar with these carborators that is willing to spend some time to help you figure out what you need.

I am not that fellow. However, I have worked on a few old Carter carburators and can suggest a few things to consider. First, 95% of carburator problems come from a bad accellerator pump, dirty jets, or a bad float/float valve. you can clean and or replace these bits without rebuilding the entire carburator. Since your carb is filled with little springs and BBs, you might see if a quick fix is possible. This will save you the better part of a weekend fiddling around with it.

I think that your carburator has removeable jets. These jets come in different sizes (the size depends on the carburator application and is one reason why the tag is important) The jet diameter dramatically effects the carburator's performance. These jets can be cleaned, but are best replaced if they are oxidized at all. If the motor ran consistently well at some point before its current troubles, I would not change the size of the jets. Many rebuild kits come with jets for various applications, be sure you put in what you take out.

Good luck. Email me if you run into troubles when you start into it, or if you have troubles finding a re-build kit.

Steve

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

You probably have a Carter AFB, and not the spread bore, since it's a 61... as in all the barrels are the same size.

These carbs don't usually get sloppy as Siebert says... they usually get full of gunge and varnish from old gas and contamination. Taking them apart and cleaning the #$%@ out of them is a good start. The kits are out there... Find an old chevy guy if you need an id on the carb, but you can probably find the model at ccmanuals.com

I take it this is a 283H of 283F Chris motor

[r day]

Gentlemen, thank you for your prompt replys, all good information; I did find the tag, with the model number ( it fell off in my hand as I looked at it, so lucky to have it ! ) and the bores are the same size. The carb is certainly dirty, bad " old gas " smell, and the throats are very corroded. One idle jet was not working, and it's respective high speed jet was issuing fuel at idle, so I suspect all the ports and jets need work, also the air doors of the secondary ports were not opening at high speed, hence my feeling for the need of a kit.
Once again, thanks and it's great to be here.
Rob

[CptnDon]

Just read your post & got this major deja vu.
There MANY versions of that carb. Finding a kit with all the parts needed can a challenge.
Screw it! Buy a new Holley marine version carb. It'll work right out of the box. You may need to get an adapter to fit the carb base to your manifold. You may need to change the throttle linkage.You may need to adapt the fuel line. It may be a pain where you sit! So what!
You'll have a NEW carb, not a FORTY YEAR OLD piece of you know what.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

[Bob Smalser]

"and the throats are very corroded"

The shafts likely need to be redone, too.

Personally, between 30-50 bucks for a home rebuild kit with uncertain results, 175 bucks for a professional rebuild at a carb shop, or 200 bucks for your basic factory-rebuild 4 bbl....I ususally opt for buying a new one.

[SailBoatDude]

The Carter on your Chris is just like the one on the '60 Sea Skiff (27' w/ single 283) I'm just starting a re-do on. It's not an AFB, but a purpose built marine carb from Carter for Chris Craft, there is no automotive similarity (GM liked the Rochester carbs, Chrysler liked the Carter). The Parts are not easy to find, but are available. I'm still in the "looking up replacement parts" mode on this project and will pass along any carb info I come across. Everyone I've talked too has swapped out for the solid body Holley, keeping the Carter in a sack for a rainy day or sale.

The carb on this boat is sucking air through every shaft hole on it, but still works with a lot more mixture screw setting then the book calls for. Soon as I find a 600 CFM, mechanical secondary, 4 barrel Holley I'll slap it on.

Don't just clean out your carb, toss in the re-build parts, you'll need the gaskets in the kit anyway.

[Ken Liden]

FYI. In that era many Chris Craft 4 BBL carbs were Carter WCFB which were also used on Chevs until replaced by both the 4GC and AFB These carbs could be identified by the square cast iron base. The are smaller diameter but taller than the AFB.

[Bob Smalser]

...a purpose built marine carb from Carter for Chris Craft I learn something new every day here....how are they different from any other Carter 4 bbl?

[megman]

Hey r day, I'm in Ottawa myself and spent about 10 years rebuilding carbs as a side-line, so if your unsure or need an extra hand to do the deed, drop me a line. :D

[Bill Berger]

If you have NAPA auto parts stores in Canada, or the equiv. they can order a rebuild kit for you. The number is actually on the base and stamped into it on a vertical surface.
I just went through this with the AFB on my Chrysler 318. It worked for about half a season and then no more...

It was just too far gone.

Summit racing sells an Edelbrock Marine carb that is the exact same thing as a AFB. I bought that and haven't looked back.

[r day]

What a great source of information this place is. I'm beginning to like the sound of the holly option, but I've always liked to stick with the original if possible, also the various fittings, lines etc. are already in place. Sucking air was mentioned, and that certainly seems to be the case here, if you put your hands over the flame arresters, the engine actually started to run better!! obviously getting air somewhere. The boat by the way, is a 61 Sea Skiff, 27', single 283. rebuilt last year ( the engine was working fine ), if I can figure out how to do it, I'll post a picture, it's kinda pretty.
And Megman, if I can get the parts, I'll drop you a line, and perhaps you can show me the way!
Thanks again guys!
Rob

[Bob Smalser]

The carb on this boat is sucking air through every shaft hole on it, but still works with a lot more mixture screw setting then the book calls for. Don't just clean out your carb, toss in the re-build parts, you'll need the gaskets in the kit anyway. A major rebuild kit will have new shafts (and sometimes butterflies) and screws in addition to the usual gaskets and jets.

Sure sounds like you need those new shafts, too.

[ 11-01-2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[SailBoatDude]

I have yet to find a rebuild kit that has shafts, let alone floats. You get the gaskets, needle and seat and maybe some other parts like an accelerator spring or diaphragm. Replacing shafts will not solve the problems with old (I mean old) carbs. Drilling the shafts holes out and having them bushed and reamed will, but most of us aren't willing to dig deep enough to do this type of work anymore (though it was once common) Egged out shaft holes are a typical problem with old carbs. Poorly conforming matting surfaces are another.

Marine rebuild kits are worse then automotive kits. I picked up a rebuild kit for a 82 Mercury last week that had only gaskets. The float, needle and seat were EXTRA. The float would have worked, though the spring was just over spec, but what the heck, it's not my boat . . . The new float will not come back and bite me in the butt next year when it starts flooding, because of a week spring not holding the needle up.

I'm not sure of the model, but there is a solid body Holley that works great on these engines and doesn't leak (that's right a Holley that doesn't leak) The automotive type have separate metering blocks and bowls with their associated gaskets (the main source of leaks) I'm not sure if this is a marine version or a solution to the leaking problem they've been known for.

What's different from an automotive Carter? Try and find a less then 600 CFM 4 barrel with vacuum secondaries and no cold steel innards or vacuum ports. Don't you Holley fans tell me about the 390 CFM (though it does look good mounted sideways in pairs on a tunnel ram) as it does have vacumm secondaries and vacuum ports that'll need plugging. Chris Craft ordered quite a few of these and got them built to there specs. Stainless steel float hangers and all . . .

[Bill Berger]

The NAPA rebuild kits have floats but no shafts or butterflies.

I would take a long hard look at the Marine Edelbrock at Summit. It is an exact copy of a Carter AFB and is an easy swap. Remember that you have all the linkage to hook up and if the Holly is different you have just created another problem.

AFB's are very good carbs, IMHO.

[Bob Smalser]

Bing, New Holland, NOS Dodge, and a number of full-up carb rebuild kits include shafts and bushings. I'm sure you buy new shafts and rebush them on other carbs...if they are leaking air there, you don't really have another choice.

That's why I said above that for a badly-corroded carb that's leaking air at the shafts, from my experience, it's nickle-dime difference between a full-up carb shop rebuild or a remanufactured carb from a parts supplier.

[ 11-03-2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[SailBoatDude]

I've done a little looking and it seems there are a few choices available.

Marine carbs have some requirements necessary for the USCG as well as general use in a water environment, including, special bowl venting, sealed shafts, sealed accelerator pump shaft, air horn tube(s) plus a few other things I can't remember just yet.

Carter makes a cheap (about $200) 600 CFM with mechanical secondary - the 9605. It is not marine setup, but cheap.

Elderbrock makes a 1409, having 600CFM vacuum secondary and a true marine carb (about $290)

Holley's 4160 (600 CFM I think) and the 4175 (650 CFM) can be had as marine carbs with vacuum secondary (both about $370)

I'd rebuild a carb myself then buy one done by the aftermarket. Mass production is wonderful at giving low prices, but over the counter carbs don't last as long or work as well as a full up rebuild by a trusted shop, or on my own work bench. I'll remove the casting flash in the throat and clean up the leading and trailing edges of the venturi, aftermarket rebuilds will not. They also use parts from different carbs of the same type. These parts don't fit as well as the ones that come off a single carb.

I'd never try to insert bushings into shaft holes without having them squared to the bore in a machine shop. This makes bushing less an option as the costs run close to the new carb purchases.

If Teflon seals for the throttle shaft and accelerator pump shaft can be had for the carter, then the venting and air horn issues can be swapped out or built using the original carb as a donor. The price is right and the look would be very close. The performance would be better as the AFB is a better design.

The owner of this Chris is starting to get squirmy as the bad news on the engine came in today. Crank needs 20 - 30 over cut, new pistons, cam, oil pump, valves train, in short no way around a complete redo. I'm surprised this little engine ran as well as it did. The #6 hole had less then 100 pounds of compression, the rest averaged around 120. The cracked valve in #6 didn't hurt the head and the cam had near a 30% of it's lift ground away. I've never seen lifters so dished without collapsing, yet it pulled hard, pushing her to 30 MPH on seven holes. This is it's first rebuild, nice to see a 45 year old engine still running, never being taken apart, though I think the heads were off her at least once.

[KMAC]

Hi Rob,
I live in Kars and there are boats like yours all around here. There is a guy right close to me who is a marine engine specialist. He can tell you what is the best course of action to take and he can get parts for almost any boat. I have a mid 60's Chrysler runabout with a straight 6 Volvo-Penta.
He knows Chris Crafts very well.
Also Napa auto parts in Manotick, has or can get, many marine parts for the older boats.

You can reach me at kentmac@gosympatico.ca

[r day]

Hi Kent
I think that after reading all of the above, the best course would be to have your guy
check out the carb, to see if it's worth re-doing, if not , then I'll check Napa for a " new " one.
Thanks again, and I'll be in touch.
Rob