A bit of magic needed?

[Wild Wassa]

Nothing has been done yet and it’s jammed. Replacing the cock doesn't appeal, yes the white stuff is what you think it is. Access isn't good, mirrors will be needed.

Any tips please and what damage might be expect to have happened internally.

All options will be given a fair consideration. We'll try each of them in order of less severity.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid133/p6886a9088ffb636e3142a391b3036292/f7873446.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid133/pcdbc1b7d9aa51307734adb24e34165e9/f78734c9.jpg

Warren.

[ 08-08-2004, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[NormMessinger]

Will the packing nut move? If the internal environment was less harsh that outside was perhaps the valve will back out with the packing nut but it looks like magic may indeed be required.

[John Meachen]

Some more information would be useful.Is the boat afloat?What part of the boat do the two tubes connect to?
I doubt that you will do any harm by applying WD40 or some other freeing agent-you might even do some good.When you have freed the valve,double stainless hose clips on both branches would be no bad thing either.

[Wild Wassa]

Absolutely nothing has been done yet Norm, the old saying, "if it doesn't move don't force it," I've stuck to, I respect the saying, not wanting to damage the glass. I wanted to be forewarned before even attempting to clean off the corrosion or attempting to undo any nuts. Breaking the FG will add a good deal of work to the event.

John the boat is on a trailer. The hoses lead from deck drains on each side of the cabin. The cock is located under the cockpit deck just aft of the cabin. There is a small access hatch on the top step inside the the cabin. The photos give an impression of their being a lot more space to do the repair than there is.

Firstly a good clean with a wire brush, WD40, then the packing nut, if needed. My friend can then track down some stainless hose clips. Thankyou gentlemen. I'm helping a friend with his boat, which he purchased recently. There is plenty of CPES'ing and varnishing to be done on her.

[ 08-07-2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Stiletto]

From the pics it looks like the cock cant be backed out without hitting the side, if this is the case, you may be able to get the workings out of the cock first and then wind it off after the WD40 has done its job.

As you wire brush it you will see whether the hull fitting has any telltale pinkness that denotes dezicification. If not , it is probably OK. The cock may be too.

[Wild Wassa]

Thanks for the good advice. Now we have triple the confidence ... but that might be all we have.

Warren.

[ 08-07-2004, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Victor]

I must be missing something. Why not remove the hose clamps, the hoses, the plastic tee, the packing nut, and then the body of the valve?

[ 08-07-2004, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Victor ]

[NormMessinger]

..." it looks like the cock cant be backed out without hitting the side..."

Good point. Even if the gate stem can be removed I wonder if the valve will clear the hull AND that little black plastic thing. It's beginning to look as if the whole assembly needs to be cut out of the hull and a proper bronze or perhaps deleron through hull put in with a ball valve on it.

I don't know what it would be called in Australia but there is much better penetrating oils than WD-40. Check the local auto parts store.

[Donn]

Am I missing something obvious here? You've got a tee that's clean as driven snow, connected to a metal (bronze?) valve that's cruddy.

Why not cut out the metal valve, and replace it with one that's made of the same plastic as the tee?

Restore the metal valve, and put it to use somewhere else.

[Wild Wassa]

Victor, I don't know how much stress can be applied to all the parts without possibly causing damage to the FG. So we were starting with a "softly, softly catch a monkey" approach. That's exactly why I'm asking. When I say there is no access, I mean there is access for one hand and a spanner.

Norm, When John wrote "or other freeing agent," I was going to look for a better freeing agent than WD40, although I didn't write it.

Donn, The photo says a lot about the use of plastic over the bronze(?), if owners aren't properly maintaining their gear and the unit isn't on show. Cutting the unit out, could be the way things end up going. We will start with what is possible then end up with what is actually needed, cutting it off and rethreading a new unit might end up being the only go.

Warren.

[ 08-07-2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Bruce Hooke]

I was always taught that this sort of valve had no place on a boat anyway so if it were my boat I think I would focus on getting the thing out of there and replacing it with a proper seacock...

[Wild Wassa]

Bruce spot on. If the valve is stuck open and a hose comes off, the unit is below the water line.

My friend Ray will be coming to have a look at the thread shortly, after talking to Ray this morning, I relayed your messages to him. Ray mentioned this morning that a better system is required.

Warren.

[ 08-07-2004, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Hwyl]

Warren, I've sen much, much worse. That's all just surface stuff. I'd want to get rid of that gate valve completely. You'd actually be better off with it not in there. In an ideal situation, I'd replace it with a plastic valve.

Don't be afraid to go at it a little bit. When you are (hopefully) with just the threaded pipe attached to the hull, get some correct sized nylon nuts and screw them down into an epoxy paste on the hull. That'll give you a better hull to pipe connection.

If it breaks at the hull, just send me the airfare and I'll come and fix it for you--maybe around Christmas (no charge for my labour)

[Victor]

Since the valve is probably seized on the pipe, how about cutting the pipe, chasing the threads, and then installing a plastic ball valve?

[Wild Wassa]

Hwyl, Cheers, I added a bit to my last post and thankyou for your good advice Skippers.

Victor, Ray was saying that this is probably how he will go. The boat is old, with imperial sizes, we changed to metric, that dates the boat, getting the correct fittings could be difficult over here. I know this just from working on old dinghies, I have real trouble matching anything, from a screw to a bit of hardware that needs replacing.

Warren.

[ 08-07-2004, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[John Meachen]

Now we know that the boat is out of the water and not likely to sink if things go wrong.When you have obtained a suitable freeing agent you can block the outside of the fitting with a bung and remove at least one of the pipes inside the boat and apply the freeing agent to the inside via one of the ends to fill it, as well as to the outside.Moderate heat from a hairdryer and time will probably help.As with all apparently stuck threads,trying to tighten it as well as trying to loosen it may be the way to break the bond.Try to free both the packing nut and the valve itself because you may find yourself needing to unscrew the whole valve if the freeing works and having the stem in the way would not help.Don't rush things,but then you seem to have a grasp of the importance of that.

[imported_Dutch]

Suck it up and replace it, cut an access hole if need be and use a bit of ingenuity to make it a nice looking access plate. Make sure you put in a ball valve-preferably marine-nothing worse than a slow to close globe valve when youre taking on water cause some thing broke.

ps those through hulls would be much better were they fit with but blocks on the inside to relieve hull strain-if you replace the whole rig but em with some marine ply that has been previously encapsulated in epoxy.

[ 08-08-2004, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Dutch ]

[warthog5]

If it was mine, whatever it takes to get it out of there and replaced with a seacock. That's what I'd do. Bigger acess, so be it.

[Gary E]

Warren,

From one of your posts....
"The hoses lead from deck drains on each side of the cabin. The cock is located under the cockpit deck just aft of the cabin."

I would ask why you need a drain from the deck to carry water inside the boat and out a thru-hull in the boats bottom.

If it was me, I would consider removing that thru hull and the need for it. Let the water that falls on the deck find another course over the side, or if that's not possible, create a scupper drain which is above the boats waterline.

[Wild Wassa]

The boat is an old FG and just recently purchased. Ray the owner has only just started going over the boat sorting out her problems. She appears to be in reasonably good shape for her age. Gary, the reason for having this type of system? I just do not know. I would say it's original but I'm just not sure without talking to Ray the owner again or going to see the boat again. Ray is doing the hard work. When I talked to him yesterday he was very interested in your replies.

Hopefully he will visit me soon then I'll give you feedback on what strategy he has taken. Ray might not have visited the Forum yet, he has the Forum details.

Thanks for such good replies, ... 'I've' learnt a lot, I've also found this to be very interesting as I would not normally deal with such problems, I only work on dinghies. Cheers.

Warren.

[ 08-09-2004, 06:03 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Phil Young]

Mate, you'll be needing to cut away the fibreglass, and replace it with wood. The time to tidy up the gate valve is when all the fibreglass has been removed, and its just sitting on the ground under the trailer. As others have said, allow plenty of time. ;)

[Wild Wassa]

:D .

I said to Ray, that there was a risk involved in anything to do with FG on this site. Dutch hinted.

Warren.

[ 08-09-2004, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[dmede]

No help on your particular problem, but I do have a suggestion on the WD40 front... don't use it. Use a real penetrating oil like PB Blaster or similar (auto parts store). WD40 is not a penetrating oil and won't do squat to free that thing.

Soak it in PB blaster couple times a day for a day or two. Tap it with a hammer after each soaking to help the oil migrate into the the threads. Heat can help too. Small brazing torch perhaps?

Dave