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oldriverat
09-04-2003, 05:42 PM
Under the regime of the Dubya?

This pretty much sums it up here in Memphis. This is by local columnist David Waters dated August 27, 2003:

"Dear President Bush:

Thanks for the tax rebate.

I'm going to use mine to pay for the increase in local and state taxes we've had around here lately.

And to cover tuition increases for two of my kids.

And to keep up with rising gas prices.

And to help my wife, a public school teacher, buy supplies for her classroom.

And to help my teenage son, who's having trouble finding a minimum-wage job.

And to buy wrapping paper from my 9-year-old son, who's dutifully going door to door to raise money for his public school.

I thought I might have to spend some of it to help him learn how to speak Spanish, play soccer and the viola. He's in a good school, but the school system is strapped for cash.

Last week, elementary foreign language, string orchestra and "minor" sports programs were all on the chopping block. Fortunately, the superintendent found some money to save them, at least for now. He didn't find enough to save computer programs, though.

Do you have any funds you could spare, Mr. President? I read in the paper that we're spending close to $4 billion a month to rebuild Iraq.

I wonder how many American neighborhoods we could rebuild with $4 billion a month? Or how many classrooms we could equip?

Anyway, I know you're scrambling day after day to keep terrorists over there in the dark. But I hope you realize how hard our local officials are scrambling day and night over here to keep budgets in the black.

Our county is more than a billion dollars in debt. Our charity hospital is on life support. Our jails are adding inmates and losing jailers.

Our county schools are overwhelmed by the burgeoning neighborhoods around them. Many of our city schools are overwhelmed by the deteriorating neighborhoods around them.

Our city mayor is looking for alternative sources of revenue. Last year, he became a prizefight promoter. This year, he's looking into the casino business. "It's not a moral issue with me about gaming, it's an economic issue," the mayor said.

It is a moral issue for a lot of people, but the mayor might have a point. The economy has fallen and can't seem to get back up, yet casinos are thriving. You can't blame local officials for bellying up.

If we're going to rely on gamblers to fund local government, maybe we should make the most of it. Instead of just skimming tax dollars off the top, let's put gamblers to work for us.

Slots for Tots.

Keno for Cops.

Blackboard Blackjack.

Russian (or Spanish or German or whatever language you want to teach kids) Roulette.

Casino night at Central High.

Central High night at the casino.

It's just a thought.

Anyway, thanks for the tax rebate. I will put every penny of it to good use.

I hope I have enough left over to buy a lottery ticket."

Contact columnist David Waters at 529-2399 or E-mail waters@gomemphis.com.

Bruce Hooke
09-04-2003, 05:51 PM
If he can do a tenth of that with his tax rebate then he got a bigger rebate than most! :( :( :mad:

High C
09-04-2003, 06:05 PM
What a whining cry-baby. Does he think an American President is some sort of benevolent dictator whose role is to provide for his subjects? Waah, waah, waah. :rolleyes:

And BTW, Mister Waters, education is a local issue. If your local system can't make ends meet on the thousands per student that it gets, you should look to the corrupt educrats who are stealing the money.

Waah, waah, waah.

Alan D. Hyde
09-04-2003, 06:05 PM
If your school superintendent would give back some of his high salary, and cut administrative expenses which keep dollars from reaching the teachers and the classrooms, your school system would not be in such poor shape.

We live in a FEDERAL system.

Schools are the proper Constitutional responsibility of the States, not of the President, or of the National government.

Every toilet that fails to flush properly in the United States is NOT George W. Bush's fault.

Sometimes, there's just way too much sh** in them!

Alan

A government which is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take from you everything you need.

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 06:26 PM
Every toilet that fails to flush properly in the United States is NOT George W. Bush's fault In my book it is. The economy starting going to hell in a handbasket when it was determined that the Dubya just might be appointed President.

OK, lets put it this way. Make me a believer. I challenge any of you to name one good thing that's come out of this man's presidency. Something that benefits society as a whole and not just a certain group of individuals in a certain income bracket.

[ 09-04-2003, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

High C
09-04-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Every toilet that fails to flush properly in the United States is NOT George W. Bush's fault In my book it is. The economy starting going to hell in a handbasket when it was determined that the Dubya just might be appointed President.
</font>[/QUOTE]Too many polyester resin fumes, MM. :rolleyes: :D

TimH
09-04-2003, 06:39 PM
isnt this almost exactly what happened when the first Bush was president? only this time we have a jobless recovery. I just had to take an $84 a week pay cut, and about 6 months ago we had our insurance benefits cut way back and increase in price. we need to quit sending money to Iraq and Afghanistan, and start putting it back in our own economy. every generation of Americans has to work harder for way less. and we send both our jobs and our cash overseas like there is no tomarow. sooner or later the well is gonna run dry!...

Jim H
09-04-2003, 06:59 PM
Yep, left my back window cracked this afternoon, it rained and now the back of my truck is all wet! It's all Bush's fault! Got a roof leak in the shop too, bet'ya he's behind that one too...

Meerkat
09-04-2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Alan D. Hyde:


A government which is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take from you everything you need.Wow, the USG to a "T" :D

Oh yeah, and while schools might be a state responsibility, how come the feds control so much of it - and if the control it, ought not they to fund it adequately?

MM, don't worry about Memphesians becoming computer illiterate: the Shrubbery is premitting all the high tech jobs to be exported to poor Indian voters - they do vote in US elections and pay US taxes right? Anyway, no need for computer literacy when there won't be any computer jobs right?

[ 09-04-2003, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by TimH:
isnt this almost exactly what happened when the first Bush was president? only this time we have a jobless recovery. I just had to take an $84 a week pay cut, and about 6 months ago we had our insurance benefits cut way back and increase in price. we need to quit sending money to Iraq and Afghanistan, and start putting it back in our own economy. every generation of Americans has to work harder for way less. and we send both our jobs and our cash overseas like there is no tomarow. sooner or later the well is gonna run dry!...All to benefit a very small portion of our population.

For the Wealthy
Of The Wealthy
By The Wealthy

Meerkat
09-04-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Jim Hillman:
Yep, left my back window cracked this afternoon, it rained and now the back of my truck is all wet! It's all Bush's fault! Got a roof leak in the shop too, bet'ya he's behind that one too...Don't feel singled out JimBob: the Shrub is pissing on everyone who's not rich and/or a corporation! :D

[ 09-04-2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

stan v
09-04-2003, 07:33 PM
Fearkitty doesn't have any hare. tongue.gif

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 07:39 PM
At least his old man had a decent literacy program. They're even cutting funding to that here in Memphis. We gotta have those big fine sports arenas so the wealthy fat cats can go sit in the sky boxes and hob nob with the movie stars. They have wealth but that isn't enough. Now they want the fame to go along with it. It's all about greed and corruption and the basic human instincts run wild.

High C
09-04-2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
At least his old man had a decent literacy program. They're even cutting funding to that here in Memphis. We gotta have those big fine sports arenas so the wealthy fat cats can go sit in the sky boxes and hob nob with the movie stars. They have wealth but that isn't enough. Now they want the fame to go along with it. It's all about greed and corruption and the basic human instincts run wild.MM, what's the per student expenditure in the Memphis schools? What was it last year, and the year before that?

Adam C
09-04-2003, 07:59 PM
Donn,

Well put. I simply busted a gut laughing over that one.

MM - how can you be so damned naive!

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 08:07 PM
say we take all the money that the rich folks have, and redistribute to the poor folks. You be the collector. Start right there in Memphis. You go to those skyboxes, and tell those fat cats that from now on, all their cash goes to food kitchens I wouldn't be caught dead there Donn. I won't go to the first game. During the storm in July, three overhead cranes were damaged down there with one in danger of collapse. I wish all three had fallen with no injury to anyone and demolished the whole MF.

Bateau Boy
09-04-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
That's right, Mike...and that's W's fault too. Never was a skybox before W. In fact, never was a rich man, enjoying his wealth, before W.

I say we take all the money that the rich folks have, and redistribute to the poor folks. You be the collector. Start right there in Memphis. You go to those skyboxes, and tell those fat cats that from now on, all their cash goes to food kitchens.Well, well, well, the same old voices still crying and counting votes, since I left for the northern country. The wealth of those fat cats is being distributed around Memphis Tenn. in the form of jobs in carpet laying, cleanup, window washing, food vendors, garbage truck drivers, electric company workers, cell phone businesses, fingernail manicurists for those movie star bimbos, limo drivers for those rich guys, gas stations to fill up with that mideast oil, tire makers and tire changers for those big stretch lincolns, and caddilacs, and last but not least part of those proceeds going back to the state to pay for those big fat school suprintendants saleries. But what really irritates these people, is that they are having to work for the money.

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 08:15 PM
No plain old American workers. It would have put a lot of Mexicans out of work that are here building the place a lot cheaper than the contractor can get Americans to do. Another aspect of greed.

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 08:18 PM
Oh God. It's Bateau Boy.


OK, lets put it this way. Make me a believer. I challenge any of you to name one good thing that's come out of this man's presidency. Something that benefits society as a whole and not just a certain group of individuals in a certain income bracket.
Again? And protection from terrorists doesn't count. It happened under his watch.

[ 09-04-2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

ishmael
09-04-2003, 08:27 PM
I've not read this entire thread, but we've been suffering a traditional economic cycle which Bush's and bi-partisan economic policies have pulled every trick in the book to overcome. Tax cuts are one way, but the Congress, under a bare Republican leadership, has been trying to inflate this downturn with almost unprecedented spending, on everything. A bit frightening how much money the Federal government has pumped the last two years.

To blame Bush for whatever your community is suffering is at best naive, at worst political diatribe. But it feels good. You, Mike, and your complaining ilk, griping about the cyclic nature of capitalist economies, are a true source of the problem. The Federal Government is doing everything short of causing a complete collapse of the dollar to reinflate matters; look at the spending figures on so called discretionary spending, including education. The dollars are flowing like wine--we'll see if it turns sour. But don't blame it on Bush.

[ 09-04-2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

High C
09-04-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
Again? And protection from terrorists doesn't count. It happened under his watch.I have more money to spend on my family thanks to tax cuts, and I'm no "rich fatcat", whatever that is. And I don't have to send my children from the room whenever the news comes on to deal with the latest Presidential sex scandal. And protection from terrorism sure as hell DOES count. The previous administration was asleep at the wheel. Their negligence is very much to blame for 9/11. The current administration is taking EFFECTIVE steps that have made America safer. And no more judges who create law from the bench will be appointed under this administration. That should be of great comfort to anyone who takes our Constitution seriously.

Del Lansing
09-04-2003, 08:48 PM
The economy starting going to hell in a handbasket when it was determined that the Dubya just might be appointed President.
Wrong oh, one of short memory. The stock market was starting to head for the crapper as of March 2000. In fact the final year of the "wonderful" Clinton years set a _record_decline_for the Dow.

Mr. Know It All
09-04-2003, 08:54 PM
My community is continueing in it's downward spiral that started about 10 years ago. There are no jobs but housing is cheap. Most people aren't working and if they are, they make less money and pay less taxes than they did. Last one out turn the lights off. Such is life in the rust belt. Things are real bad but I'm sure they'll get worse. I wish I knew who to blame. Middle class is a dying breed and the gap between the classes grows wider everyday. Revolution won't be far behind as frustration increases.

[ 09-04-2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

Leon m
09-04-2003, 10:08 PM
Revolution won't be far behind as frustration increases.[/QB]NOW WERE TALKIN !

Mike
I'm with ya ,Judging by my thread "I really want
to know"...It's true Repubs don't care about much
as long as there wallets fat.

John Bell
09-04-2003, 10:12 PM
Why don't y'all go ahead and spell out your post-revolutionary constitution for the rest of us to see? Let's see the document that's going form the basis of this utopia.

Just passin' through...

N. Scheuer
09-04-2003, 10:15 PM
Obviously Donn and several others are totally enfatuated with Dubya.

As for myself, I cna't wait to do my part to help Dubya be the second one-term President Bush.

Moby Nick

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 10:17 PM
That's the only damn thing they care about Leon. And they base their decisions concerning the way they vote on their wallets also. And nothing else.

ishmael
09-04-2003, 10:21 PM
When you yellow dog Democrats get your wish, and Howard Dean, or some such, is in the midst of this mess, it will be interesting to remember how hollowly partisan you were.

It's a mess. You idiots remember when the zipperless Billy boy was at the helm, but you forget he inherited a window from twelve years of Republican policies, both domestic and foreign.

What a bunch of fools. There are no words for your callowness.

Leon m
09-04-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by John Bell:
Why don't y'all go ahead and spell out your post-revolutionary constitution for the rest of us to see? Let's see the document that's going form the basis of this utopia.

Just passin' through...How about we start with this .

BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE

[ 09-04-2003, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Leon m ]

oldriverat
09-04-2003, 10:43 PM
Again, list one good thing. All you all can do is critize the way Clinton used his willy. You revert to the same tactic time and again.

TimH
09-04-2003, 11:05 PM
Well. up till Dubya North Korea wasnt pursueing their nuclear program as if they were about to be invaded...good one Georgie...how much is *THIS* gonna end up costing us?

Ed Harrow
09-04-2003, 11:05 PM
Well, looking at the police report, not too hot. Lots more vandalism these last couple of weeks, mailboxes, windows smashed, and two women arrested for domestic violence (one smashed a fresh-brewed pot of hot coffee upon her victim), two people driving over sidewalks to get around a car that stopped to let a person cross the street and damn near ran them over, some overly enthusiastic fireworkers one Sat night (and no, I won't tell you how someone you know actually shut them down, LOL, ;) ), some gas co employees found sleeping in their vehicles (several cases of that), an "engaged" couple found not sleeping in a car, one of SWMBOjr's peers was arrested for assaulting some people with a baseball bat and another for a knife engagement, oh, and the police shut a construction project down because they were on the job too early (they were building the new police station, LOL). The Board of Health has gone over the top in restricing the trucks from one company from driving down Elm St when the Elmwood School is taking in or disgorging students. Now that's a hoot!

Taxes are up (the local community taxes), the fees are up (sports, buses, extra school activities, permits for just about any thing one ever wants to do or have inspected), there's a lot of houses for sale, and I'm still BS with Milwaukee. It's kind of a take back to the good old days when Mike the Duke's Massachusetts Miracle went south, or to where ever it went (but back then I wasn't BS with Milwaukee, of course).

[ 09-04-2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Ed Harrow ]

Mrleft8
09-04-2003, 11:15 PM
It's not really so much "how much you pay" for something, as it is "How much you get, for the amount you pay", and also "how much you get paid to be able to pay for what you get" As far as I can tell, I'm still getting a gallon of gas, but it costs an awful lot more. I still use (X) amount of kilowatt hours, but it costs a lot more. I still use the same amount of phone service, but it costs nearly twice what it did 4 years ago. I pay more in taxes, but I get less service. I pay more health insurance, but my co-pay has gone up, and I still haven't had a single claim. So who is getting all these wonderful things I'm paying extra for? :mad:

ishmael
09-04-2003, 11:33 PM
Again, list one good thing. Mike,

You miss it with the question. It betrays small, selfish desires, to have things 'good' LIKE THEY WERE UNDER BILLY.

It's a different time. Go read some more history, though I doubt it will make any difference.

Mrleft8
09-04-2003, 11:40 PM
I don't consider economic security to be a small thing. I don't consider education to be a small thing, I don't consider ecology to be a small thing. I certainly don't consider relative safety in the USA to be a small thing. What small things are you reffering to Jack?

Dave Williams
09-04-2003, 11:51 PM
I'll say it again.

Tell me one good thing W has done.

Mrleft8
09-04-2003, 11:53 PM
He made all those ice cold Republican women's hearts go "pitter patter" by wearing a sock in his flight suit, when he landed on an aircraft carrier, delaying the homecoming of thousands of troops.....

High C
09-04-2003, 11:54 PM
"I'll say it again.

Tell me one good thing W has done."

Can't you guys read? I answered this silly question several replies up.

[ 09-04-2003, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: High C ]

imported_Snatchblock
09-05-2003, 12:04 AM
Any body checked the price of particle board, osb and plywood lately?--its a least double what it was 1 year ago. Why?

imported_Snatchblock
09-05-2003, 12:18 AM
....... as to the people in my community....... they are dead.... every damn one of em. I got sick of all the old gas bags and fart boxes and bad breath and halitosis smelling gag-alations being spewed that I decided to do some ting about it and do I did.

TimH
09-05-2003, 04:03 AM
One good thing Dubya did was he made me laugh when I read about him choking to death on a pretzel. smile.gif

stan v
09-05-2003, 07:07 AM
One reason my community is doing well, is that none of you liberals live here. :D One thing I learned at an early age is to avoid negative people. Between reading some of your bilge, and watching cartoons, I'd say I stay up to speed on liberal thinking. tongue.gif

stan v
09-05-2003, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by ishmael:
I've not read this entire thread, but we've been suffering a traditional economic cycle which Bush's and bi-partisan economic policies have pulled every trick in the book to overcome. Tax cuts are one way, but the Congress, under a bare Republican leadership, has been trying to inflate this downturn with almost unprecedented spending, on everything. A bit frightening how much money the Federal government has pumped the last two years.

To blame Bush for whatever your community is suffering is at best naive, at worst political diatribe. But it feels good. You, Mike, and your complaining ilk, griping about the cyclic nature of capitalist economies, are a true source of the problem. The Federal Government is doing everything short of causing a complete collapse of the dollar to reinflate matters; look at the spending figures on so called discretionary spending, including education. The dollars are flowing like wine--we'll see if it turns sour. But don't blame it on Bush.Ish, excellent. Don't forget the effects and cost of 9/11. Devastating to the economy and spirit. Of course, libs generally have no spirit, they love the dark side.

oldriverat
09-05-2003, 08:58 AM
Death and destruction, control the population of the poor, trickle down. It doesn't work anymore and I'm not so sure it ever worked in the first place.

JT, I'm so glad you have more money to spend.
Jack, why don't you try getting a job like the rest of us and then let us know how you feel.

All of your arguements are weak. This man is the worst president we've had in a very long time.

Wild Dingo
09-05-2003, 09:08 AM
Hows your community doing under the regime of the DubyaWell.... actually he doesnt impact on my community very much at all Mike.... however ask how were fairin under liddle brown nosin Jonnie Howarse and I could say something denigrating in the extreme :eek: ...

but... thanks fer askin Mike :D

[ 09-05-2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

WoodenJoe
09-05-2003, 09:11 AM
Go ahead and support the Democratic candidates. If you read in the comments of the platform for Dean, he will still send YOUR money to Irag for rebuilding, along with your troops. Your taxes will be raised when he calls for the tax bills to wiped out. You will have less money in the first year of his term, if he has his way. What shows such ignorance on this issue, is the only real part of the the tax cuts, have come in the form of the rebate checks. How can a written bill, only on paper, have anything to do with jobs in this country,or illegal aliens entering this country? Have you ever gone by the government housing projects in Memphis, and noticed who is standing on the corners at high noon? These people could be doing the same jobs the Mexicans are doing, in your area. There is nothing wrong with getting dirty. Most any of these folks can aquire an education to advance to a nice clean job, with all of the programs the government funds and grants to go to the schools in your area, free of charge.

In our area, we have a lot of migrant workers that work from sun up to sun down, honest hard working men and yes women, in the hot sun, doing a job that was done by American citizens before the great society programs were initiated in this country. This is a fact of life, now days. The liberals in California, has just voted to allow illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses. This not only gives incentives for Mexicans to come into this country, but to drain on the programs, created to help the real citizens of our country. This also allows Saudis, Chinese, and Pakistan citizens to flow freely in our country, to promote terrorism, learn flying, pollute the waters, and create utter chaos and crisis for the funds of many of the existing legitimate programs, for citizens raised in this country for generations of tax paying families.

It is very hard to point out specific issues that this president has done or issues that Clinton did, during their terms, because we do not live under a dictatorship. You may wish to look at the Bush term, this way, but he has kissed Kennedy's butt, with a check book in hand. He has never ruled with a bully pulpit, as Clinton did, in his shut down, yes Clinton, of our federal government, with his lies concerning cutbacks on programs.

This is mute to the liberals or conservatives in todays world. the president just inks the paper, or vetos it. Its the Congress that passes the bills, under our system. The money has flowing like a broken dike, this past term of Congress. If you will recall, actually the Democrats controlled the Senate, for one year of Bush's term, when Jimmy jumped ship. The examples of Socialism, by the Dean camp is on display below, and written by people that have lived under his regime.

If my mind will allow me to do so, I think Sen. Kennedy wrote the last education bill, the largest ever, along with decades of bills to make our "kids smart", and easier working conditions for the educators themselves. Sen. Fienstein, just this last week, I believe, was just crying about the same topic as you wirte about, Memphis Mike. If you have ever had children in a school program, you will also recall funding rasing programs have been in our school systems, for as long as the Democrats have been in power in Congress, starting around the sixties. So please point out to me REALLY why our education system is such a mess. On a further note, write to your fellow Democrats, and ask them the same question. Send a e-mail to the leaders of your party, along with this columnist. Ask questions of where the increased funding is being spent.

Schools use to be in session from Labor Day, till the first of June, depending on weather days.
Now it starts in many areas around the first or second week of Aug, and goes till around the middle of June. Teacher work days, increased work shop and work days, with no students in class, and increased holidays, are just a few of the reasons the school year goes on for additional time.Has this increased our kids smarts with all the additional money involved in just the operational costs? Check the scores and furthermore, check with your latest graduate, by working next to them. School classes have become smaller, which created the need for more teachers, along with the benefits that are involved in employee hiring.
Keep voting for the tear jerking speeches by your senior leadership, and scare tactics. These do nothing for national security, that Bush II has addressed for this country, and for the world. Without national security, we all live from day to day. Businesses do very little planing and spending, for the future, as we have seen in the airline industry. It is the single most important issue in my life, and for my grandchildren.

WoodenJoe
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Member # 6998



posted 08-29-2003 08:58 AM
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This is a great question and answer post.
stan v
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Member # 3673

posted 08-29-2003 07:30 AM
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Turn the lights off those socialists, it's a matter of time anyway. Can't run a country under socialism for long. How loowwww can you go?

I like this post about one of the Democratic -Socialist candidate.

Noah
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Member # 3500

posted 08-26-2003 11:01 AM
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I will jump in here where I don't belong and say Dean has my vote. I don't really know why the press thinks of him as such a liberal, but he did pretty well for me in Vermont. When I was poor and making less than $15K per year in a metal shop I had health care covered. My property taxes went way down, and Vermont actually put money away when other states were spending out the hole. Well now we actually have some cash in the bank when most other states are f**ked. He also made sure that every kid under 18 had health insurance.

He basically said I think the war with Iraq is a stupid idea, but now that we are there we should solve the problem and rebuild Iraq with more troops, and get the job done. The Rest of the world is watching.

This is a very smart guy with no coporate connections to worry about who solves problems. Generally he does the smartest thing. After 8 years as Vermont gov I never felt lied to or decieved. I may not have liked all his decisions, but I could always understand why he made them.

Also I admire a guy that is raising money from real people. Most of the people that have donated money to his campaign have never done so before. He is stirring up people that have never voted before. A democracy doesn't work if no-one votes.

So there I said it. Everyone should take a real look at what he is saying, and how he solves problems.
He is also probably the most fiscally conservative guy running for election.
http://www.deanforamerica.com

Noah

[ 08-26-2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Noah

This was a single state on Democratic-Socialist rule. This could be your country under Democratic-Socialist rule.
Maguire
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Member # 1768

posted 08-26-2003 11:32 AM
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Another Vermonter's View:

Any success I've had over Dean's reign has been due to my and my wife's hard work - Dean's brand of socialism had nothing to do with it.

Redistributing wealth is redistributing wealth. Just because I may benefit from it (though I don't) doesn't make it right. My kids are eligable for Vermont's welfare health care. We do not participate because I provide health insurance for my family. It is MY responsiblity, not my neighbors (or, some stranger on the other side of the state).

Also, thanks to Dean's policies and programs, health insurance providers have run away from the state, so a business in Vermont now has a total of 2 health insurance providers from which to choose. Guess what this lack of competition has done to health insurance rates over the last 10 years.
I'm glad your taxes went down (really, I am). Mine went through the roof. And my local school is still digging itself out of a financial hole (and it will take us probably 5 more years).

The roads and bridges in this State are a disgrace.

The bueracracy in Vermont is phenomenal. You can't blow your nose without a state hearing. You want to see the country's most complicated and idiotic income tax form? Check out Vermont's. Take a look at the "Vermont - State of" section of the white pages phone book. -- 7 columns of departments. 7 columns! For a state with less than 1 million people.

Tax policy in this state guarantees a stagnant business climate. Then, in order to attract what few large employers we can, all kinds of concessions get offered.

To many of us in Vermont, Dean is just another New Yorker who came here, and then tried to turn Vermont into New York.

Just another son of privilage who has figured out the standard Democrat way to get poor and middle class folks to vote for him.

[ 08-26-2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Maguire ]

Its pretty funny when the state has to create incentives[call it tax breaks] to get businesses to renivest in a state or come to a state. California fell to the Democratic-Socialist rule.

What I think is pretty funny in this example, we have two states attempting to bring back businesses to their states, with the same tactic, as what President Bush has been saying all along, with his calls for tax breaks for businesses in this country, to restart the economy. What we have in this case, is tax breaks for the wealthy, or so it is spoken by the Socialists in this country.

When all else fails, call on the working class to bail out the Socialists. Thank you for the time and informative information provided for a great campaign ad for the Republican party.
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From: Virginia | IP: Logged

[ 09-05-2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: WoodenJoe ]

stan v
09-05-2003, 09:35 AM
So, what's the answer to those of you on the left? To take from those that produce? To have the American dream given to you? Or, do you get off your butts and make something of yourselves? If you don't like wearing a uniform with your name over your pocket, change the way you think and do something different.

imported_Snatchblock
09-05-2003, 09:51 AM
Seems to me wooden joe that none of the politicians have the balls to stop immigration legal and illegal from the south. Face the fact- the more people you allow in the more the economy has to grow and the more tax money you can collect. It increases their power. THAT is the crux of immigration. The sad thing is that it is holding down wages for the lower to middle income workers and making the quality of life of EVERY American poorer and poorer. If the American public does not wake up to this brown tide and do something about it soon, we will one day wake up and find large segments of our population living in 3rd world conditions and the remainder crowded together in every daily activity we participate in. Taxes will go up to support larger school populations, larger public housing expenditures and and ever increasing need for public health care. In some areas of the country I have seen, it is already unusual to see a person who was born here.

Jim H
09-05-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jim Hillman:
Yep, left my back window cracked this afternoon, it rained and now the back of my truck is all wet! It's all Bush's fault! Got a roof leak in the shop too, bet'ya he's behind that one too...Don't feel singled out JimBob: the Shrub is pissing on everyone who's not rich and/or a corporation! :D </font>[/QUOTE]According to the Democrats, as a single man making $30K or more I am rich, hell I'm self-employed. That makes me evil incarnate, according to the Democrats.

brad9798
09-05-2003, 01:00 PM
"... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ..."

Although I've included only a portion of the declaration, I see no part that says we have a RIGHT to happiness, wealth, jobs, health insurance, success. Merely, we have the RIGHT to PURSUE it.

Let's face it- no one deserves a big house, expensive car, boats/yachts ... unless they get off their ass and EARN it.

Sure you will argue that some folks inherit these things- GOOD FOR THEM- they may never know how lucky they are.

Let's see Memphis- Since Bush came to 'power,' you are now driving a Mercedes ... you are still gainfully employed, you are still married to a beautiful wife (Hi Sue! smile.gif ) ... you still go boating ... What's wrong? Sounds like a decent life to me.

I haven't had a raise in three years ... still take the same amount out of the business every month for three years now ... I don't need a raise, I'd rather give it to employees.

I have a good life ... but, I made my life. I am involved in my neighborhood, my Church, my daughter's school, boating community, etc.

But- I am not ENTITLED to a good life, I have to continue to work for the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
-------------------
Schools, sports venues, etc. have NOTHING to do with who's in office ... and quite frankly, the president(s) ANY president gets too much credit when things are going well, and too much blame when times are tough.
--------------------

Just like a pitcher in baseball ... too much credit when a TEAM wins ... too much blame when the TEAM loses.

There are nearly 300,000,000 people on our TEAM ... if only 50% of them would carry their own weight, this country would be much more responsive, responsible, and compassionate.

Instead, 20% produce the income/buying power/employment for the rest. Not that the 'rest' is a negative term; although some falling into that particular subgroup certainly carry a negative connotation. I see it first hand EVERY day-- whining, whining, whining-

"How come you have this car" ... or "that boat?" "How come you get live in ---- neighborhood?" "How are you able to travel a few times a year?" (as if it's not fair to them ... I don't care if it's fair to them!)

Pursuit of happiness is a huge difference from guarantee of happiness.

Get out and pursue it ... actively pursue it. If more folks would, the problems would right themselves!

Russell Sova
09-05-2003, 01:08 PM
Mike, don't vote! People have been INJURED trying to think for themselves. George doesn't care for fags, good enough for me!

Chris Coose
09-05-2003, 01:18 PM
Heard on the radio today another 97,000 jobs evaporated.

Between #1 and the dubbya and Hoover net loss of jobs.
Deficits to be paid by somebody - someday and you compare this guy to Clinton still?

Anybody but this crazy lying bastard

WoodenJoe
09-05-2003, 01:20 PM
This is another history lesson for the supporters of the Democratic party, that points toward the failures of the party leadership, and policies under Bill Clinton. Memphis Mike and others, keep looking back at the good old days of the previous leadership of the White House.

Here is a state that has had the Clinton policies and programs for many years, to fix a lot of things, and make life better on a local level in Arkansas. Again, we can recall that school breakfast and lunch programs have been funded for more years than Bush I or Bush II has held office, on the state or national level. Many of these same people, had the chance to be fed at least two meals a day, for the school calendar year, and the same eating habits appears to have been carried over to the homes and to the next generation. Now on many campaign plates, once again we hear the cry for more money for our schools to make life better for our next generations.

As stated in the Associated Press article, 60 percent of adults and 25 percent of the children are obese or on the verge of being overweight. The teachers must now spend their time, giving report cards to the kids, to take home to tell their parents that they are overweight. Where does it end , Mike?

How did this country make it so long through the little red school house years, and inventors smart enough to bring us out of our candlelight years and the horse and buggy era, without some personal responsibilty at home and at work? I am not saying that Bush has all the answers. I am only saying that we must assume some responsibility of everyday life . This is not happening, in the current trend of either leadership.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/living/health/

Posted on Thu, Sep. 04, 2003

Panel Backs Student Health Report Card
Associated Press

LITTLE ROCK - Schools could comply with a new law requiring parents to be told of their children's body-mass index by sending the information in a special report, not putting it on students' report cards, an advisory panel says.

The Child Health Advisory Committee on Wednesday endorsed the plan for a special health report card distributed directly to parents. Committee members said they hoped that would reduce concerns about exposing overweight children to teasing by their peers, and invading their privacy.

A law approved by the Legislature this year requires the state's public schools to provide parents with an annual report of their children's body-mass index, a measure that helps screen for weight problems.

More than 60 percent of adults in Arkansas are overweight or obese, and 25 percent of the state's high school students are at risk of being overweight or are overweight, according to state officials.

Because weight problems are linked to diabetes, heart disease and stroke, curbing them at an early age could drastically reduce the problems in adulthood as well as health-care expenditures. The legislation called for the body-mass index to be "included as part of the student report card," so many parents worried about kids sharing their numbers and teasing those who are overweight.

The advisory committee was created by the legislation to help develop nutrition and physical activity standards for the state's 450,000 schoolchildren. At a meeting Wednesday, its members chose to consider "the student report card" a generic report to parents and has pledged to make the body mass index confidential.

For students whose body-mass index indicates a weight problem, the special report card will include recommendations and information about controlling weight.

These changes, committee members hope, will eliminate the worry over "report cards being snatched away and being the (subject) of ridicule," said Dr. Joe Thompson, associate director of the Arkansas Center for Health Improvement. "We're not going to let that happen."

Martha Hiett, representing the state Health Department on the committee, said that agency would support anything to ensure that ... this process is handled in a way that is acceptable to parents and to families and to schools, and certainly confidentiality is at the top of the list."

Now I will consume my cold Biggy Mac and Biggy Fries, and back to work for another six hours before I get to endure a rainy weekend on the bay. I will see you guys on Monday morning, for the nine o'clock history lesson.

Scott Rosen
09-05-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Chris Coose:
Heard on the radio today another 97,000 jobs evaporated.Oh, silly you. According to our government, unemployment is just a negative way to view productivity.

Our government is driving American "productivity" up: Fewer people working more to produce the same amount of goods and services.

Welcome to the brave new world.

[ 09-05-2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

Chris Coose
09-05-2003, 01:33 PM
Scott,
So the dubbya makes the balance of the workforce all scared managers (no more OT) and the remainder are SOL?

I get it.

This is how we create healthy communities.

I'll share this with my kids when they get away from their multiple low paying jobs.

Scott Rosen
09-05-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Chris Coose:
This is how we create healthy communities.No. This is how we create healthy economic statistics and fool the voters. The problem Bush has is that he can't fool the voter who's lost his job. And he probably can't fool the neighbor of the voter who lost his job. So if the job losses keep mounting, reelection becomes more difficult.

Personally, I don't think there's much any politician can do about the economy at this point, except try to take credit when it goes well and divert blame when it goes poorly.

I may be a bit cynical, though.

TimH
09-05-2003, 03:42 PM
stan,
So I guess Bush is taking care of Texas eh? well my state has the second worst enemployment in the country.

oldriverat
09-05-2003, 04:42 PM
Anybody attending the fundraiser in Indianapolis tonight? It's only $2000.00 a plate. Alan?

Alan D. Hyde
09-05-2003, 05:01 PM
Mike, Bush has really reached out to the common man with that price, considering that Bill and Hill did some $10,000 a plate affairs.

His price is 80% less.

And you won't have Bill Clinton in the room, so he won't attempt to stain your date's dress. And with no Hillary, you won't need to guard the silver or the china from sudden mysterious disappearance. Such a deal, huh? :D

Alan

Mr. Know It All
09-05-2003, 05:27 PM
I wonder how many of you would defend Bush if it was YOU who was losing your job to cheap out of country labor or having to live and support a family on half of what you made last year? Let me know when the depression catches up to YOU. We'll see how YOU feel when the wolf is at YOUR door. tongue.gif

I'll be the first to call you a whiner. :D

Adam C
09-05-2003, 05:38 PM
KIA,

What are you doing here talking about it? Get out there and work!

The loudest complainers seem to be the most frequent posters. Don't like the way your income is going? Get out there and bust your ass to change it.

Maybe if some of those 97,000 who lost their jobs put a little moxy in it, they would still have jobs today. I doubt the most valuable and productive people were fired or laid off.

Alan D. Hyde
09-05-2003, 05:39 PM
I, for one, am not a Bush defender, although he is far and away preferable to Clinton or Gore.

I'd like to see less regulation, less bureaucracy, lower taxes, and more individual freedom. So far, George W. Bush has expanded, not diminished, Federal employment and spending and regulation.

It's government's proper role to keep our persons and property secure, and to prevent fraud or oppressive monopolies. Kind of a low-key but fair and impartial umpire.

After that, let the Federal system work in all its glorious potential diversity. Remember the Tenth Amendment.

If California wishes to operate a welfare state, let her. If Indiana wishes to emphasize hard-work and self-reliance, along with low taxes and unintrusive government, so be it. Americans will be free to vote with their feet. That's not a bad thing.

Alan

[ 09-05-2003, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

Don Olney
09-05-2003, 05:53 PM
September 4, 2003 ECONOMIC SCENE

The No-Frills Middle Class

By JEFF MADRICK

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/09/04/business/04SCENch184.gif

THE booming economy of the 1990's spawned many a spurious piece of conventional wisdom. One is that Americans' materialism has run amok.

Americans from all walks of life, the story goes, are spending with abandon on fancy and unnecessary products. Many people on the
political right welcome this as evidence of how high the standard of living really is in the United States, despite slow-growing wages for three decades. Some on the left claim the indulgent materialism is using up the economy's resources while serious social problems are left unsolved.

Similarly, many economists argue that "affluenza" has pushed too many Americans deeply into debt and produced a savings rate too low to sustain prosperity without the piling up of mountains of foreign debt.

There is little doubt that some Americans are spending ostentatiously. But this Labor Day week it is appropriate to debunk the oversimplification. As Elizabeth Warren and Amelia Warren Tyagi convincingly claim, most Americans do not fit the bill. What is driving Americans into debt, they argue, is not superficial luxury spending but necessities.

If they perhaps push the point too far in their new book, "The Two-Income Trap" (Basic Books), they provide a clear-eyed correction to the myth of far-flung affluence.

The fact is that it is not only the poor and working poor who are not faring well in America. Many of those in the middle, especially
two-income families, are having trouble making ends meet, despite the boom of the 1990's.

Part of the distortion about where American working families stand today is that we tend to think of a standard of living as measured in the physical goods we own. The conservative analysts W. Michael Cox and Richard Alm, in their 1999 book "Myths of Rich and Poor," asserted that Americans were buying a lot more goods like Gap clothes, sneakers and VCR's, and the standard of living was improving faster than the data suggested. But the book conspicuously ignored the costs of education and health care, and put a misleading spin on housing.

Yes, the costs of food and clothing have risen more slowly than median family incomes, and the costs of electronic products have fallen rapidly. But the costs of what it really takes to be middle class today -- education, health care, housing, drugs -- rose much faster than median family incomes. According to federal data, for example, my own calculations show that nominal family incomes rose by about 5.5 percent a year from 1973 to 2000, but the cost of health care rose nearly 8 percent a year, and the cost of higher education 6.5 percent.

Ms. Warren and Ms. Tyagi make the point vividly, however. Ms. Warren is a professor at Harvard Law School, and Ms. Tyagi is a management consultant. They are mother and daughter.

The authors find that despite the popular notions about overconsumption, a typical family spends less on clothing today, discounted for inflation, than in the early 1970's. Similarly, it spends less on large appliances and on food, including going out to restaurants. As for vacation homes, the data suggest that 3.2 percent of families had them in 1973, and that 4 percent do now. Is this affluenza?

Rather, what families spend a lot more on, the authors calculate, is a house in a safe neighborhood with a good school -- about 70 percent more a year, discounted for inflation, for the typical family of four. The scarcity of good schooling has created a bidding war that drives up house prices in first-rate school districts.

And these families are not buying huge new homes. The average home size has been skewed upward by the wealthy. The typical family's house is, in fact, only a half room or so larger than it was 30 years ago.

The other factors driving spending are largely the costs of the two-income family. The authors find that typical payments for day care and preschool for two children can add enormously to the household budget.

Two workers also make a second car a necessity, and often a good second car.

Also, the cost of health insurance is often up, even when spouses work, because corporate benefit plans are demanding higher employee contributions. For the typical family of four, it is up by 60 percent.

And two incomes often mean a substantial increase in taxes because the family moves into a higher tax bracket.

The upshot is that two-income families often have even less income left over today than did an equivalent single-income family 30 years ago, even when they make almost twice as much. And they go deeper in debt. The authors find that it is not the free-spending young or the incapacitated elderly who are declaring bankruptcy so much as families with children.

The authors'suggestions for how to solve the problems are not conventionally liberal. They call for vouchers for the total cost of
public education; tuition freezes at colleges rather than more federal financing; and tax breaks for all savings.

Not all of these are practical.

And Ms. Warren and Ms. Tyagi draw too fine a point here and there. There is surely some mere status-seeking in sending a child to the right day care institution and living in the right neighborhood.

They also justify too readily the purchase of an expensive car as the family's second vehicle.

But their main thesis is undeniable. Typical families often cannot afford the high-quality education, health care and neighborhoods
required to be middle class today.

More clearly than anyone else, I think, Ms. Warren and Ms. Tyagi have shown how little attention the nation and our government have paid to the way Americans really live.

On Vacation
09-05-2003, 05:54 PM
Kevin, with all due respect to all of the folks that have lost their jobs, I lost more than just a job three years ago. I lost my health, and my profession, from within the country. One reason was the plastic boat industry, 5 percent down and drive away.

But one thing was a saving grace for me, was the minimul amount of extended funds, that you will find not the case in too many cases, that we find now to be whining and complaining in today's lookers in job market.

Many people loose when the credit card and consumer credit debts come home to roost. The 1990s glory years of two cars financed, and high tech stocks purchases.

A person's pride must be put away. Take a job in a different field, as many people have done. No president is to blame, when trends change, for improper planning on the part of the unemployed.

While I was on the road, I had the chance to listen to NPR radio a bit. I could just see the faces of the announcers, when they were discussing some of our country's issues. That was the most doom and gloom I have ever heard, as I was going down the road. Some guys should stop listening to NPR, and watching the primetime news coverages.

We rarely see any of it, in our house. But one thing for sure, the little bit of it I saw and heard, was enough to give me a case of ending my life, if I was on the edge of depression with job loses and high debt.

oldriverat
09-05-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Know It All:
I wonder how many of you would defend Bush if it was YOU who was losing your job to cheap out of country labor or having to live and support a family on half of what you made last year? Let me know when the depression catches up to YOU. We'll see how YOU feel when the wolf is at YOUR door. tongue.gif

I'll be the first to call you a whiner. :D Kevin, one thing for sure is the jobs in your area are probably not coming back. I saw the same thing happen in WV in the eighties when the coal industry was automated and the unions busted. The UMW are still there but no longer carry the weight they did at one time. Polititians made promises that were never kept. The latest being made by GWB to bring back "Old King Coal" and put WV back to work again. All lies.... and the people fell for it. They've had to settle for lesser jobs or leave. I'm one of those that left and I'm glad I did. I feel I would have never achieved anything had I stayed there. It's sad when you return and see someone you know that used to make $50,000 a year working on the trash truck emptying people's garbage. :(

Mr. Know It All
09-05-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Adam C:
KIA,

What are you doing here talking about it? Get out there and work!

The loudest complainers seem to be the most frequent posters. Don't like the way your income is going? Get out there and bust your ass to change it.

Maybe if some of those 97,000 who lost their jobs put a little moxy in it, they would still have jobs today. I doubt the most valuable and productive people were fired or laid off.========================================

Adam....If you were here in front of me right now, I'd be torn between giving you a tour of my county and it's people, our dying indutries and farmlands or punching you in the nose. I doubt either would open your eyes.

[ 09-05-2003, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

imported_Snatchblock
09-05-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Oyster:
Kevin, with all due respect to all of the folks that have lost their jobs, I lost more than just a job three years ago. I lost my health, and my profession, from within the country. One reason was the plastic boat industry, 5 percent down and drive away.

But one thing was a saving grace for me, was the minimul amount of extended funds, that you will find not the case in too many cases, that we find now to be whining and complaining in today's lookers in job market.

Many people loose when the credit card and consumer credit debts come home to roost. The 1990s glory years of two cars financed, and high tech stocks purchases.

A person's pride must be put away. Take a job in a different field, as many people have done. No president is to blame, when trends change, for improper planning on the part of the unemployed.

While I was on the road, I had the chance to listen to NPR radio a bit. I could just see the faces of the announcers, when they were discussing some of our country's issues. That was the most doom and gloom I have ever heard, as I was going down the road. Some guys should stop listening to NPR, and watching the primetime news coverages.

We rarely see any of it, in our house. But one thing for sure, the little bit of it I saw and heard, was enough to give me a case of ending my life, if I was on the edge of depression with job loses and high debt.Sorry Oyster, but your job went the way of the buggy whip maker as did the original definition of the mill wright. You have to live within the times or become a museum piece that people respect enough to support. I would elect to support a wooden boat builder like your self over a GRP builder but the general public obviously will not.

High C
09-06-2003, 03:00 PM
Unemployment on the rise, or just more media lies?

From Newsmax
"Saturday Sept. 6, 2003; 11:12 a.m. EDT
Media Employment Report Cover-up: 150,000 New Jobs Added August

The press has been saturated since Friday morning with misleading reports claiming that the number of jobs held by Americans declined by nearly 100,000 in August. However, the actual jobs statistic used by the Labor Department to measure the unemployment rate showed just the opposite - with the economy adding almost 150,000 new jobs.

The journalistic sleight of hand fueled headlines like "93,000 Get the Ax" in Saturday's New York Daily News, "Job Losses Mount for a 22nd Month" on the New York Times front page and Newsday's front page blast, "Goodbye Jobs."

While most press accounts eventually got around to noting that the actual unemployment rate fell from 6.2 percent to 6.1 percent, the information was often buried deep into the reports. The Daily News, for instance, didn't mention the improving statistic until seven paragraphs into its coverage.

Most press accounts disingenuously chalked up the discrepancy between their claims that the economy lost jobs and the declining unemployment rate to "workers who were so discouraged at the bleak job prospects that they stopped looking."

Some went even further. Citing unnamed "economists," the New York Times claimed bizarrely that the divergent statistics were due to "a surge in the number of people who, having lost their jobs, listed themselves as self employed rather than unemployed."

However, nine paragraphs into its own coverage of yesterday's unemployment report, the Washington Post admitted that claims of job losses were based on a separate survey of business payrolls, which is normally not part of the Labor Department's monthly unemployment report:

"The unemployment rate can decline as the number of payroll jobs drops because, in part, the figures come from different surveys," the Post explained. "The unemployment rate is based on a survey of 60,000 households, which found that total employment rose by 147,000 workers in August as the number of unemployed people fell by 157,000, to 8.9 million.

"The [declining] number of payroll jobs comes from the department's monthly survey of about 400,000 businesses," the Post said.

Another detail excluded from most coverage of Friday's jobs report: Blacks and Hispanics showed the most gains. While the unemployment rate for whites fell by just one percent, it declined for blacks by twice that amount, from 11.1 to 10.9 percent.

The unemployment rate for Hispanics fell even further, from 8.2 percent to 7.8 percent."

[ 09-07-2003, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: High C ]

On Vacation
09-06-2003, 03:21 PM
"Sorry Oyster, but your job went the way of the buggy whip maker as did the original definition of the mill wright. You have to live within the times or become a museum piece that people respect enough to support. I would elect to support a wooden boat builder like your self over a GRP builder but the general public obviously will not."

Acutally a GRP builder will never happen in my lifetime, Snatchblock. I couldn't be more happy with what I have done, and where I am at my point in life. I require very little to survive on, and it will not come from nasty polyester moulded crap, ever. Let someone else make the millions in it, if possible.

seafox61
09-06-2003, 04:35 PM
a colection of answers first of all a new constution in fa to the one we had in 1911 and USE IT. the only adition would be an amendment to add the following "Congress shall make no law to protect people from them selves"
further strip everylaw away that has been added since 19ll.

I'll add something here we need a senate not an upper house of represenitives. it was a major mistake when senators began to be elected by popular vote insteen of chosed by the state goverments another major mistake was to make the new states much larger than the existing states california should be about 4 maybe 5 states in size texas should be 5 states alaska at least 6 . sure voting with your feet if one thing if the next state is 10 miles away in utah 10 miles likley wonly get you ti o the next county. further perhapse the house of rpresentives should be one rep per county and 50 senitorial districs all with the same land area. just becausetheir are people who live like rats in a sick expariment at overcrouding does not means they should have ungodly power over people who live lightly on the land

when complaining about health care lets look at the need for a simple anti depressnt a freind called to ask what otc or herbs I used when I could not get my prescription because not that his daughter is 22 and if off her moms govermnet health insurance she has run out of zoloft. so I told them about st john wort 4 cents a pill even if you have to take 18 a day for it to work. meawhile to get a prescrition first you have to go to a doctor then to a farmacy where the regulated prescrition pills cost over $2 each for my 20 mg daily dose of lexapro $4 if I bought them in 10 mg pills. look at the price of clairitian since it went over the counter. 50 cents a pill for the brand name 18 cents for the walmast house brand.

the cost of goverment has grown to 50 percent of the nations production and 40 percent of the people are simple paracites.

chairity should be taken care of by churches and NGOs guess what andrew carnigee paid for one hell of a lot of librarys before we tried to tax the rich to death. Mark twain employed a lot of people and left the country with a beuitiful home and a magnificent ody of litature. when he went into debt it worked hard to pay back the people he owned something he likely could not have done if the goverment was stealing 40% of everything he brought in the door ( more so because of hidden taxes and state taxes the fed is only taking a 40 % margin right now.

this country would be so much better off it we did not waste over 800 bilion a year simply colecting the income tax.

think it was memphsis mike who asked how many schools could we build in this country for 4 bilion a month. I'll ask you mike how many schools could we build if we were not wasteing 65 bilion a month JUST COLECTING THE EVIL FEDERAL INCOME TAX!!!!!

name something good george bush jr has done as president. I don't like him much he is to liberal but at least he has slowed or at least lesseened the taking of privet property as the last administration did. he has reopened multiple use goverment lands to multiple use giving jobs to people.

pretty negitive things saying at least he is not doing such bad things as gore would have but think of america where they are tearing down dams left and right. picture southern californina on a galon of water per day per person. picture 25 percent of the west burning every year because of looney enviremental ideas and pictureseveral america's bigest citys vacant because of terrorist attacks invited by a weak forrin policy. for none of this happening is what we have to thank george W bush. now I just wish he would retire and a true conservitive like michael reagon or ron paul or even Vin suprynowice to take over

Russell Sova
09-06-2003, 04:46 PM
Democrats=killing babies
=fags marrying
=military cutbacks
=better learn Spanish

Mr. Know It All
09-06-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Russell Sova:
Democrats=killing babies
=fags marrying
=military cutbacks
=better learn SpanishDon't forget legalizing Pot. :D

Gary E
09-07-2003, 09:28 AM
Seafox,
&lt;&lt;&lt;he has reopened multiple use goverment lands to multiple use giving jobs to people.&gt;&gt;&gt;

I must have missed this one, can you tell us more how this was done?

G

[ 09-07-2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

seafox61
09-07-2003, 07:54 PM
by apointing administraters like the BLM cheif who do not see their main job as keeping farmers ranchers miners and timber people out of goverment lands.
jeff
I belive he also vacated a presidentual order clinton instuted just as he was leaving office that created thousands of square miles of defacto wilderness by idgnoring existing roads in the forests.
he also has a good secratary of the interior who has made sincable agreements with people like utah goviner to drop from contesting roads that every one can agree are roads.