Repair help please

[Hal Forsen]

I have a couple small problems with the Bartender that need to be addressed; First is this split floorboard
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid184/pe752575d15989b4123e36a8c6a50a6cb/f2952d5d.jpg
If I stand on it I can push it back into shape but there appears to be alot of tension in the board. The bilge as been kept with boat sauce for years and I cant think of any adhesive that will stick well to it....
Should I sister it up or try and drive a fastener down thru it or both or???
Then there is this little problem at the bottom of the well where the Doelfin(SP?) rubs against the hull.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid184/p33dd61d4b4c4f850b7e6a06145374892/f2952d6d.jpg
There's bare ply and raw glass there. Whats the best way to patch this?
I may end up slightly trimming the fin and screwing an HDPE or stainless rub strake along there.
I know somebody will say lose the doelfin but the previous owner said it really helped performance......
Any and all help appreciated.
HF

[Jack Heinlen]

I can't make out the second problem, but with the floor I think, assuming it's sound, I'd goop it with fungicidal bedding compound and drive three or four copacetic fasteners.

Why is it split?, is a question worth asking. I assume a bit less than ideal stock and the flexing in the hull? But if you can get it close to back with weight, and put some long fasteners in, it should make it sound again. What's the material?

[Hal Forsen]

It looks like there was a bit of grain run out which was made worse by the very squared off notch.That and she's almost 40 and was fished hard for years.
HF

[pipefitter]

The only time I ever saw a doelfin improve performance was on boats that had cavitation probs.I would try it without it first before rigging something on the hull.Is the boat overpowered for what it is rated for?
If nothing else,I would trim the doelfin down before I did anything to the boat.

[ 08-29-2005, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[TimothyB]

As far as the floor, I dont think I would just drive a fastener through it.

What I would do is take a 3 prong approach:

1) Coat inside the crack with thin epoxy, making sure it doesn't all get absorbed into the wood

2) Clamp it down tight so the crack closes up and drive a long, untapered, wood screw that is relatively thin. I'd predrill the hole for it and make sure it was long enough to bite into at least 1/2" of clean wood at the end.

3) Keeping it clamped, I'd get out a 1" or so metal bracket, with two holes on each side and shaped like a square 'U' exactly as thick as the floor. I'd put two good quality bolts through it and use a couple of washers. I'd bed the bracket in something nasty and gooey to prevent rot, and also I'd put thin epoxy to coat teh inside of the bolt holes in the floor to seal it. I'd make sure the bracket was placed 1/2" from the end of the crack.

The bolts, bracket and screw fastener would be made of the same stuff the boat was fastened with to prevent electrolysis. All of this is assuming (a) you don't want to replace the floor and (b) you can't trust the glue-up because of oil soakage.

The first thought I had was to use an untapered dowel/treenail (blind wedged and split top) instead of a metal screw fastener, and you still could do this. This is how the old timers put in preventative stoppers for half lap joints, landing one a bit behind the lap on the timber (except they drove the trunnels through, not blind wedged). It would be more difficult, but it would make it easier to place the bracket. Also it would probably not cause any electrolysis problems :) . You'd have to have some good meat though, on the floor to keep it from splitting when you drove the trunnel. If the floor is less than 2.5" you probably want to stay away from using one.

[ 08-30-2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: TimothyB ]

[Hal Forsen]

Paul, I think she may be slightly overpowered: Bill Childs recommends 40HP max but his boats are made out of Occume. Mine was heavily built with mahogany frames and old doug fir ply.

HF

[Alan D. Hyde]

I like your U-bracket idea, but I'd attach the U-bracket with screws, while pushing the glued split (with glue on both sides) back together tightly.

I wouldn't put a screw thru and across the joint--- it would just weaken the wood, tend to promote rot later, and not hold that well anyway.

But the U-bracket should help, and perhaps a glued-on sister piece alongside the floor, and within the U-bracket...

Alan

[pipefitter]

Hal,that boat is probably not made to go so fast as much as it is supposed to handle the rough stuff.I would get rid of the doelfin or trim it down so it doesn't hit.If you take it off you are going to want to get the 4 holes welded on the cavitation plate. My motor came with one of those on it too. I tossed it and welded the holes shut.If I am to have cavitation(porpoising) problems which I shouldn't because the Simmons has a substantial hook built into the hull which in effect acts as fixed trim tabs do.I will either add tabs (i know,not antiquely or design correct)or glass trim wedges in the bottom of the hull hidden from view at the rear of the hull next to the motorwell to add more trim to keep the bow down.Either that or I will just cruise at speeds that don't porpoise.

[Jack Heinlen]

What a bunch of engineers! LOL.

If you can close the gap with your weight, your foot, goober it up with some good fungicidal bedding compound, put your foot on it, and drive a long screw in the end. Drive two or three more along the length. Job done, a couple hours, and quite right.

Of course you could tear into it, and rebuild it from the ground up. smile.gif

And pipefitter's comments about too much power in a chop are worth considering, though I don't think he understands the design. Having the power doesn't mean using it.

[ 08-30-2005, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Gary E]

Glue it and screwit.. 3 or 4 screws..

[pipefitter]

No Jack,but I was thinking from the doelfin that the previous owner wanted to use it. Isn't the bartender the cool boat with the round stern?I dont know if it is a true planing hull or dont see how it can be with the round fanny but I dont know exactly what the bottom looks like.But I do know about porpoising boats and is why most of the modern FRP boats need trim tabs for the 150hp+ outboards.I see alot of modern (bay boats) now putting the hook back in the hulls where as it was taboo 15 yrs ago.The hook in the rear of the hull in the Simmons is what convinced me that the old timer knew what he was doing from hearing it from other old timers years past. Their boats were always the last ones in during bad weather and with the most fish. As far as that split,if it is screwed,the screws shouldnt be driven straight down but on an bias to the crack so that the stress can't work the screws straight back out.You might consider relieving the stress by running a hacksaw blade in rear of that split to relieve it some. Would also make for cleaner wood in which to glue maybe.Unless when closing that split it rights something in the hull below the frame when you close it.

[Jack Heinlen]

Pipefitter,

To be frank I don't understand the design well either. If someone could post the lines it would be appreciated. It is both a displacement dory and has what I guess you guys are calling doelfins for planing.

In any case, that split in the floor looks like an old injury to wood that couldn't quite stand up to the pounding of the planing. Some good stout screws will fix it, methinks. It's but one thread in a tapestry, and from what I can gather that's what I'd do to darn it. Always with the proviso that the advice is from a distance.

[pipefitter]

Notches like that always give me doubts. Seems it makes the wood only as strong as what's left below it and the wood above becomes deadwood.Someone could have started that crack unknowingly when they tapped the frame to adjust it while building it.I have always been tempted to pin places like that with a dowel or screw.Is that place in the boat over a trailer bunk,maybe? If it is,you might try jacking the boat a little off the trailer to see if it closes up before repairing it.If that stern is round do the trailer bunks go all the way to the rear of the boat or atleast as far as to support the engine? I would look at all of those things.Alot of damage happens on the trailer other than in the water where the weight is distributed more evenly.

[ 08-31-2005, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]